21st Stuff on Sale at Bad Cat

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:57 pm

Guys, don't use BC as a gauge. They are a great company but do have very high prices. Mustangs are about $47-$48 at SmallJoes and GoodStuff. This is about 15% more than WM when you figure Sales Tax. That is NOT considering Gas, time, etc..
WM is going to be cheaper in general than everywhere else, just like they are for all other products - deodorant, pickles and soap. But WM is NOT the norm, accept that.

More examples of how online is a great way to shop - Figures. Online stores often have figs for less than $5 a piece - much less. That is seemingly never the case at WM.

Also BC gets about $20 for the 1/6 weapon sets, they are under $10 at GoodStuff, about what they cost at WM. Don't use BC to paint all online retailers as over-priced. When a mom and pop shop can even get close to WM on price, things are pretty good imo.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:04 pm

WM's prices are based in bulk purchase from the wholesaler/distributor (which in this case is direct from 21st Cent. Toys). When you retail online yourself, sometimes you're left to buy through a wholesaler, sometimes (if you can do the volume), you're left buying through the distributor... case-in-point, entertainment Earth store buys direct from Hasbro to sell Star Wars merchandise and their volume allows some play room on prices as they get things at lower prices generally.

Smaller etailers might buy from EE though, as EE is actually also a wholesale distributor FOR Hasbro.

21st Cent. is a smaller company so I have a feeling they dont' work through wholesaler,s you buy direct, but I could be wrong. Prices then are based on the prices paid per volume of product... Smaller stores pay higher to get their product in, WM pays the minimum to 21st but buys a TON, so they're in the driver's seat. The more you buy the lower your actual cost is.

In general mark-ups on toys are fairly significant, depending on the toy, to profit as well as leave room for sales. Some stores exagerrate how close margins are but from my experience it's just that, exagerration.

BadCatMatt · Post by **BadCatMatt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:27 pm

Maybe this will help clear-up pricing:

Planes that cost us $42 delivered cost Wally about $18 bucks or so, by my estimate. Since Wally entered the field in 03 they have not had to shoulder a price increase to my knowledge. But all the little guys have had about a 20% increase in the wholesale price. The street price of XD has only risen about 10% during the same period because of increased competition. So, profit margins are much, much thinner now than four or five years ago.

Moreover, not all online stores are the same in their structure. Some onliners work out of their home. These home businesses have no overhead and their owners have regular jobs during the day. If they mark something up only 5 dollars that's beer money in addition to their daily wage. However, these businesses may or may not treat customer service or your financial information as professionally as you'd want. When we first started, we worked out of our home, too.

Other online stores, like ours today, are located on commercial property. We pay rent, employee payroll and associated taxes, utilities and all the overhead that comes with running a business. Customers can shop online or shop here in our warehouse if they choose. When I came to work today I passed through three heavy steel doors and deactivated two alarm systems (so nobody is going to break out the window in the back bedroom and steal the server with your cc number on it, if you do business with us). We use commercial grade computer equipment and we are hosted by Yahoo! which is battletested against the world's best hackers. All of this costs money and we cannot compete with every product, everyday on price with either Wally or the Ziffle's working out of their barn. Compare us with similarly organized companies like Toy Fed or H.A. and you'll have a fair comparison.

In the end, 1:18 for $71 less 30% comes to $49.70 plus $9.99 shipping. Is that a good deal or not? The guys that buy from online buddies or drive from Wally to Wally will say no. Others who prefer professional service and door-to-door delivery will jump at the offer.

So what happens when the sale is over? Our price will more than likely be below List, about $59.95--where it was before the sale.

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:06 pm

The problem remains, and this has been my only gripe, why would you jack the price up and run a 30% sale rather than leave the price alone and run a 10% sale...

Some guys don't care, others feel it's an insult to their intelligence... The math's not lost on anyone Matt and I'm not trying to bust your balls on this at all, I just think it was a bad maneuver... leave the price where you were at and run a lower % sale to avoid this confusion and/or distrust in the future, is my best business advice.

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:12 pm

Matt, first of all.. thank you for taking the time to respond and being direct and forthcoming with your answers. I know it can be hard to not go down the emotionally defensive route when someone challenges a decision you made.

You also (to me at least) don't need to justify your prices against WM. Small online retailers have a different value proposition and level of service than the big box stores. Clearly those differences cost money and customers that can appreciate them will continue to pay for it (as I have).

That being said, add me to the list of people that disagree how this sale was handled. It was pretty disappointing to discover that 30% off meant 30% off list retail price, or really 10-15% off of yesterdays price.

(A little wrinkled but still a customer)

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:27 pm

Ok, did a little checking..

Not sure which is more important, math or reading, but..

While a lot of this was focused on the math, it's pretty clear in the reading.. Having just re-read Matt's forum post and the e-mail announcement from BC, both clearly state the discount is off of list price not "normal" price.

Still think it could have been simply stated as 15% off, but you guys did try to make it clear for what it was..

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:43 pm

BadCat probably has one of the largest and most diversified selections of any online retailer currently out there that I am aware of, and their operating costs are probably higher than many other online stores as a result. They are a good outfit that has always given me great service and selection, even if it was not always at the absolute lowest "rock bottom" price. I have also gotten some great deals from them in the past on sale and clearanced items that were as good as any deal I've ever had anywhere else. I think competition among the online reatilers is a good thing for collectors in the long run, and I consider BadCat an important part of that mix of online retailers.

BadCatMatt · Post by **BadCatMatt** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:54 pm

Thank you for your input gentlemen.

In order to eliminate confusion, we have eliminated the coupon and applied the 30% discount off list directly to all 21st Century items--just as we always have when a price was discounted.

Our feeling is that if you guys have questions or concerns, the general public probably does also.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:54 pm

Holy crap

I just check out the prices on BC and they are High.......

For a 21st P-51, the cost is reg 71.00 that is almost what I paid for the F-18 bbi, so is shipping included in the price? or do we have to pay that also.

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 5:20 pm

While I agree that the sale could have been better communicated, I have no issue with the sale prices--as I noted earlier, the final price after the 30% off is not bad. The savings may vary from one item to the next compared to the regular prices, but there are some pretty decent deals to be had.
The whole thing with suggested list is one of those things that manufacturer's love to use to screw with us. How many of you have ever paid MSRP for anything through a regular retailer/etailer? Very few, I suspect. The only common exceptions I can think of might Microsoft software products or the Sony Playstation 3--products where they have you AND their retailers over a barrel (we won't count politically driven price fixing like pharmaceuticals and gasoline).
When I was in retail, selling electronics and appliances, we used to sell a lot of RCA products. And 3 weeks out of 4, we usually had the same RCA 19" TV on sale--MSRP was $279.99 but it was on sale for $169 or $179. It had a 5 button remote (on/off, colume and channel up/down), but because it had the RCA name on it, it sold well--especially since RCA did the ads for us--"$100 off MSRP!!!" Keep in mind, this was in the mid-90's, when RCA was considered a leading brand name--it was frustrating for us because we had much better quality and featured TVs from "off-brands" Sharp and JVC that were only $20 more, but nope. RCA is AMERICAN (or was in the 50's). We saw the same thing with other brands, and pretty much everything we sold was far less than the MSRP, but if the manufacturer subsidized the advertising, they always showed the savings off the MSRP, NOT what we actually sold it for.
If you don't like the MSRP, odds are good that you will never pay it. Or you can send a letter to 21st and say that their MSRP is out of line--but due to competition, the price you actually pay will probably not change much unless there is a special sale, or unless there is a pretty hefty increase in 21st's wholesale pricing (if Walmart goes up to $44.95, for example).

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:39 pm

caesarbc wrote:Another reason why I keep my money away from on-line retailers (except ebay)!

I hear that! I try to avoid them unless I see something tasty. Ebay on the other hand, once you sell on there and learn the little tricks, you can get some great deals.

Timbo · Post by **Timbo** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 6:42 pm

Every plane I own except for 2 have come from Badcat and all I can say is that I'd much rather pay a little more if it means not having to step one foot inside a Wal-Mart. For what some of you guys must spend in gas money looking for stuff you could buy several planes from Badcat.

Plane Nuts · Post by **Plane Nuts** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:27 pm

Boy, howdy... How come I always seem to get my self into these firestorms???

I really didn't intend to create such chaos for Bad Cat; they are my personal favorite--never actually bought from anyone else (except Small Blue Planet). I thought hmm about the pricing before I started this thread, but I was only trying to point out a few very good deals in there.

Sorry Matt, but if anything, this odd bunch is a bit of a litmus test!!

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:15 pm

The sale could have been better comminicated - I will always get my plane from the cheapest place -

showing the normal Badcat price and %10 off would have been great - even %12 hint hint.

it was a fun read - never the less

GAU-8 · Post by **GAU-8** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 11:03 pm

i havent ordered from badcat as much as i should ..but when i do, i love the service i get when i phone in. and uin the mail a few days later.

sure wally world is cheaper. but the service sux, and they usually dont have what you want, and then you have to HUNT for it by going to other wally worlds. spend more of your money and time on gas, driving around, and deep down knowing we are all morons for shopping at a place we love to hate, and cant stand to personally set foot in.but our little hobbys says "just ONE MORE WALLY WORLD .......PLEEEEEASE!!!" deep in our minds.

i personally like the "oh, its in stock, and i found it" CLICK.. i bought it!, and in a few days i will have had several people, working on my toy to COME TO ME. talk about class

if you think about it that way. THEY do all the work, for a little higher price. the "guesswork" and "hunting" is not of your concern anymore.

its kinda nice

supersonicfifi · Post by **supersonicfifi** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 1:15 am

I ve just receveid the confirmation of the shippment of my next 1/18 plane from BADCAT and as always the service is top notch !!!!

THANX a lot BAD CAT ! For me too service is important because for internationals shipping you'de better work with the bests e-retailers ....

Philippe

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:28 am

BadCat always gets exclusives that nobody else can and sells them very cheap. I love their service. They are very quick as well. However, my wife does not like BadCat as much though because the products that they sell take up a lot of space. Another great thing about BadCat is that they send out a mailer/poster of some of their inventory. I hope that they get the new21C Figs in again. Same with the new BBI figs.

tankduel · Post by **tankduel** » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:40 pm

Gee,for quite a few of you it's NO MORE PLANES FOR YOU!!!!!!!

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Tue May 01, 2007 8:32 am

Bad Cat is top notch and I have a hard time dealing with anyone else. As for tankduel saying no more planes? Well after I get BBD then it IS no more planes for me until the SBD and Hellcat come out. They are saying mid-summer for those 2 bad boys and I cant wait!

Small Scale Military Headquarters

21st Stuff on Sale at Bad Cat

prices

me 109