Can the BBi Sherman be made into a Firefly?

[digger]

Well, 2 hatches atop the turret right away make it a better candidate than the 21C one. People often complain that 21C should make a firefly or this or that with their Sherman - people rarely wonder why bbi hasn't. With the new LB & Humvee, maybe a bbi Sherman mod could be a reality..

[nfafan]

The loaders hatch on the roof of the BBI Sherman helps. Will need to "square it off" around the hatch, as AFAIK, Fireflies had square loaders hatches. OTOH, the oval hatch and the larger fume vent in the certer of the turret roof can probably just be "lived with".

Or, as was mentioned; the 21C turret would need similar work as it is missing the loaders hatch entirely.

[scbvideoboy]

i thought fireflys were only on the new wide track and hvss suspension

DH

[Rowsdower]

With the new LB & Humvee, maybe a bbi Sherman mod could be a reality..

Theres a new BBI Humvee??

[Spudkopf]

With the new LB & Humvee, maybe a bbi Sherman mod could be a reality..

Theres a new BBI Humvee??

He'd be talking about the re-tooled USMC super HMMWV, which was a great improvement over the BBI's original Hummers.

[aferguson]

The trickiest part about making a Firefly conversion is the muzzle brake. The Firefly had two types, a more conventional looking one and an oval shaped one, which is the more interesting. Other than that it would be a straight forward conversion and a very easy re-tool for BBI (and not much more work for 21c).

[digger]

Theres a new BBI Humvee??

He'd be talking about the re-tooled USMC super HMMWV, which was a great improvement over the BBI's original Hummers.

Actually the recon humvee was basically all new compared to the
original. I'm talking about the recon humvee shown with armored shield and .50 cal.

[Spudkopf]

He'd be talking about the re-tooled USMC super HMMWV, which was a great improvement over the BBI's original Hummers.

Actually the recon humvee was basically all new compared to the
original. I'm talking about the recon humvee shown with armored shield and .50 cal.

Oh in the light of this new info then, Theres a new BBI Humvee??

Digger, I did not know that a new HMMWV had been annonced, where did you get the info and are there any pictures yet?

[FieroDude]

Spud--
It was shown at the ihobbyexpo in Chicago last October, and I think agan in Merit's booth at Toyfair. I believe there were pictures of it on Merit's site a couple months ago, along with the Daisy June Corsair and the new bbi Mustang.

[Spudkopf]

Thanks F-Dude

I must been out the back on a toilet break or something as I missed that one entirely, now I'll have to do some searching.

[Rowsdower]

I'd love a Humvee with the shielded .50 mount like you always see in footage from Iraq.

[Spudkopf]

Well I went to the merit site and all I could find where pictures (iHobby Expo) of the current Supper Humvee with an additional shield for the 50, but otherwise the same.





What's the use of having additional armour if the rest of the vehicle is essentially open?

The only plus is that I have already altered one of my 21stCT HMMWV to take the BBI gun ring as I was planning to do a custom build of an Urban Protection Kit, so at least this will look good on that and save me some work.

[grockwood]

The BBI Sherman is a M4A3 of which only a few saw British use,none were converted into Fireflys.. The 21st Sherman is the best canidate for converting into a Firefly. The original turrets on the 1:1 also only had one hatch so just like the real turret you need to add the second hatch to the 21st.

The most likely redo for BBI to do with their Sherman would be a new turret, the T23 which carried the 76mm gun. They could go for broke and also make the E8 suspension and create a complete M4A3E8 Easy eight Sherman.

[FieroDude]

Well I went to the merit site and all I could find where pictures (iHobby Expo) of the current Supper Humvee with an additional shield for the 50, but otherwise the same.





What's the use of having additional armour if the rest of the vehicle is essentially open?

The only plus is that I have already altered one of my 21stCT HMMWV to take the BBI gun ring as I was planning to do a custom build of an Urban Protection Kit, so at least this will look good on that and save me some work.

Never said it made sense, just that it existed... I keep hoping someone at bbi had the idea for the armored gun mount, but could only find a recon HUMVEE to put it on in time for the show. Then again, nothing would amaze me these days...

[Spudkopf]

The BBI Sherman is a M4A3 of which only a few saw British use,none were converted into Fireflys.. The 21st Sherman is the best canidate for converting into a Firefly. The original turrets on the 1:1 also only had one hatch so just like the real turret you need to add the second hatch to the 21st.

The most likely redo for BBI to do with their Sherman would be a new turret, the T23 which carried the 76mm gun. They could go for broke and also make the E8 suspension and create a complete M4A3E8 Easy eight Sherman.

Would you not have to add some some extra detail to the hull sides also for an E8, IMO this is where BBI should have started and worked backwards to 105 at a later date, I think there is far more sales potential in an E8, franklin mints one looks great.

Using the current BBI hull, suspension and turret combination, with only a simple mantel and gun change by BBI would allow 75mm version to be built, I have often contemplated finding a 21stCT gun and mantel to replace the 105 on my BBI, however I did not wish to sacrifice my own perfectly good 21stCT version to do this change, so anybody got a dead and broken parts worthy 21stCT Sherman?

[grockwood]

BBI would have to add the track shield that extends out over the tracks along the bottom of the hull and add the fittings that support it. Not that difficult to do. Yes it would be easy to add the 21st Sherman gun, manlet and mount to make a 75mm Sherman out of the BBI. You would have to delete some turret detail such as an extra vent on the turret top and relocate the 50 cal mount. I got lucky and found a 21st Sherman at a antique store for $5.00. It is missing the tracks and hatches but the gun and stowage is complete.

[STUKA]

"allba ackba le argh sptff.*

"Aim for their knees (spits)"

[Rowsdower]

Hmm. Even with the odd choice of putting the armored turret on an otherwise open recon Humvee it's better than nothing I guess. Not what I was picturing when I first heard of it though.

[HardenSteel]

Using the BBI - not really. The turret could be used & changed. But the 45 degree hull was mainly used and reserved for US forces, mostly using the T-28 turret. Neither company has produce the T-28 turret yet. Heaven only knows why!

Of course, when it comes to Shermans, there is an exception to every rule.

The first FireFly was an M4A4 - slightly longer than the M4.

Here are the Marks that saw the most action:

Sherman VC Firefly
(M4A4 rearmed with 17pdr gun, hull machine gun deleted to increase ammunition stowage).

Sherman IC (Hybrid) Firefly
(late-production Detroit-build M4-cast/rolled hull front, hull machine gun removed)

Sherman IC Firefly
(M4 rearmed with 17pdr gun, hull machine gun deleted to increase ammunition stowage).

There were exceptions done in the field, such as this:

Sherman IVC (Firefly)
(Firefly turret on a M4A3 hull, not an original combination, supplied by the Brussels War Museum)

http://www.tanxheaven.com/ljs/fireflyljs/fireflyljs.htm

However, you just do not see the conversion with the 45 degree hull (BBI), so that only leaves the 21 Century one to do an Sherman IC Firefly version such as I've done.

If your interested you can see my conversion at:

http://news.webshots.com/album/550215107uuEOgt

If your really interested, email me and I'll send you the write up on it ( word document).

A number of board members will remember it from the past. I have changed it a bit, since then and should really get some new photo's of it up on the site.

In conclusion, you can't reallly use the bbi one - except for the turret which would be too fat across the cheaks. The oval loader's hatch would only work for a late Sherman IC (Hybrid) Firefly,

Hope that helps!

HD

[HardenSteel]

Added some up to date pictures of the Fire Fly, if anyone is interested. When they bring out Britsh figures, then I'll finish it and complete a diorama for it.

http://news.webshots.com/album/550215107uuEOgt

HD

We need a WWII British tank now!