My Phone Conversation With Roy Sutherland..

[tko211]

Wow! This is an old topic! Seems almost like a lifetime ago. It is a good read though.

[aferguson]

holy golden oldy batman..

[digger]

Well, dates are a bit off but that is too be expected - what you will notice is the 2004 announcement of both the F-86 and the 262...

[VMF115]

Well, dates are a bit off but that is too be expected - what you will notice is the 2004 announcement of both the F-86 and the 262...

and the mig 15, but also,

Mentions the b-25 and the F-4, the A-10 and British W.W.II aircraft

[blurx7]

Well, dates are a bit off but that is too be expected - what you will notice is the 2004 announcement of both the F-86 and the 262...

and the mig 15, but also,

Mentions the b-25 and the F-4, the A-10 and British W.W.II aircraft

I would suggest this kinda shoots holes in a lot of the griping sent their way after the toys fair announcements this year.....

[STUKA]

I also laughed while reading this - all the 2006-2007 surprises were mentioned back in 2004.

Good read.

[pickelhaube]

The post said that armor is not that popular. I want to cry. What does that mean in regards to the Tiger 2- ? Even back in 2004 they were hate-en.

[GooglyDoogly]

and the mig 15, but also,

Mentions the b-25 and the F-4, the A-10 and British W.W.II aircraft

I would suggest this kinda shoots holes in a lot of the griping sent their way after the toys fair announcements this year.....

You mean how miraculously they suddenly announced an 89.99 F4 days after AT?

An 1/18 F4 that they can't even show a prototype of? Pfft.

yeah...keep believing that AT's F4 announcement has nothing to do with it.

[chunks]

For anyone who cares. I now announce my intention of creating a new business to compete in this sector. it will be called (pending) Valhalla Dreams. I announce that I will produce (if I personnely haven't already, good luck on ebay) everything in the Putnum and Janes' books. Let me know what you would like. Should someone underhandedly actually beat me to market with what you can have in hand, keep in mind I announced it first!!!!

[digger]

You mean how miraculously they suddenly announced an 89.99 F4 days after AT?

An 1/18 F4 that they can't even show a prototype of? Pfft.

yeah...keep believing that AT's F4 announcement has nothing to do with it.

I think even 21C admits that AT's F4 sort of forced there hand to announce early. What sucks for us as consumers is the LONG wait we will now endure knowing two great AC are on the way.

The point made was more about the Sabre and 262, which people refuse to believe were not "reactionary" but were planned and announced way back. AT did them anyway..so much for the theory that if each company made their intentions known there would be no overlap. (see bbi Mustang and Corsair for added evidence).

[STUKA]

basically - they both were in the early stages at the same time - or a lot of people read this forum in 2004.

Either way - it helps/helped the industry.

[blurx7]

At the risk of continuing this forever....
without access to exact records of the conversation, but only going on the second hand reporting, let us analyze...
Fist comment was a no to the Zero, though a later reference says it, along with the Maachi, is on a list they are strongly considering. Neither has turned up in 1/18 but both have appeared in 1/32. I call that a fair comromise, and award this one a vote of accurate.
Next we have a no on Russian planes. Accurate so far again.
A-10 is listed as unlikely but with a hint of maybe. Have not seen one yet. Again, accurate.
F-104 given a certain yes. Accurate.
Avenger -yes. Accurate.
F4... ah, the F-4... Unlikely, but maybe. Urged to consider, and then urged to consider again by a huge number of posts that followed.
ME 262. Yes. Now announced. Accurate.
Mig 15, Yes. Accurate.
F86. Yes. Accurate.
WWI - Possible. Nothing so far in hand or announced. Accurate or not? Your call.
Additional British? Probable. Nothing so far. Accurate or not. Your call.
So, out of eleven references to possible new product, we have an absolute accurate prediction on eight, and on two we have possibles, and on one, the F4 we have a sticking point.
Still, even taking the F4 as inaccurate, that gives them a pretty strong record on following through with what was indicated. I don't see mention of entire catalogues of aircraft that have not been acted upon ( sarcasm is the last resort of failures). Nor do I see the track record some have mentioned of suddenly announcing previously unnannounced planes. The F4 seems to be the only case. However, given that we know 21ct Century does follow this board and take seriously what is discussed here. I would think you would have to accept that they listened to the members who urged them to reconsider the F4, on this very thread. As to the timing of the announcement, I see no reason not to take at face value the reason advanced, that considering the difference in price point it seemed fair to announce now and not face the recriminations of those who would be angered at a lower price announcement after they had paid a higher price for the Admiral bird.
Sorry for the long rant.
I am done with this now.
Cynicism sucks.

[VMF115]

blurx7 what about the b-25????

More RAF types (Hurricane, Typhoon, Tempest, Mosquito): Probable one day

Big Stuff: I asked about the possibility of a B-25 (not totally out of the question) C-47 (ain't gonna happen...too big). I got the impression if anything of that magnituede is going to happen it will be a long ways away.

He did say there is a WWII twin coming in '05. Would not even tell me the nationality. My hunch is it's the Me 110 we've heard rumour of but who knows....as he kept saying 'anything's possible'.

[tmanthegreat]

blurx7 what about the b-25????

You have to read what was said correctly Aferg mentions that he asked about the possibility of a B-25, then in the parentheses he includes Roy's response - that one isn't totally out of the question.

Aferg then mentions Roy saying in the conversation that there was going to be a twin-engine plane out in 2005. At the time, it was thought this might be an ME-110, as Roy had mentioned the possibility of one in a much earlier interview.

This was also a time much different than where we are now, in regards to XD, and there are alot of you newer collectors that weren't around yet. Late 2003 & early 2004 was an optimistic time for us collectors. 21c had come back in full swing after its financial crisis and Toys R Us exclusive distribution debacle. This is when 21c began selling XD at Wal Mart and with the small retailers. It was early in 2004 that 21c made a "Coming Soon" announcement that featured the XD Spitfire, Bf-109G, FW-190D9, and Avenger. This was on their old website, a year before Area21, the new fanclub, and our regular supply of 21c intel came into existence.

Within that year, we got the Spitfire, FW-190, and Bf-109G, plus the P-40 and Bubbletop P-47 - and there were tons of rumors flying around about when the Avenger would come. Little did we know that we would have to wait two years for that particular plane, and have all our optimism tempered by a slow-down in new 1:18 releases during 2005 and part of 2006

The second half of 2006 really picked up in terms of new stuff coming out; 2007 has started off as a very optimistic year for 1:18 militaria, and looks like it may be the best yet

[VMF115]

Tman thanks for the insight, looks like I started collecting at the right time. As for the B-25 I noticed that blurx7 did not mention it in his post. I am looking froward to the next 2 years.

[tmanthegreat]

Tman thanks for the insight, looks like I started collecting at the right time. As for the B-25 I noticed that blurx7 did not mention it in his post. I am looking froward to the next 2 years.

Your welcome! Re-reading that conversation brings back all sorts of memories. I hope we will see the B-25 before the year is out and that it won't turn into a multi-year wait

[MightyMustang]

I just want to thank Roy for everything he's done. Since he became part of 21st the paint schemes of my beloved Mustangs has been getting better and better with each release. I really look forward to Old Crow and BBD because I know because of Roy the paints schemes of those to Mustangs are going to be VERY accurate.

Again thanks for everything Roy.

[Jason of Admiral Toys]

Funny bit of trivia: Admiral Toys and I did not know about this forum until the day our F-86 was released at the Houston airshow. Jason from this board made us aware of this forum, thank you Jason. He wrote the website address on the back of one of our business cards. Until then we knew nothing of 21st’s “intentions” to releases i.e. F-86, 262 etc. The first time I read about 1:18 in a forum was the week after the Houston airshow in November, 2005. Unfortunately the 262 was already started.

So in my opinion the “who mentioned first that we were going to produce what aircraft” thing means nothing to me if we had no knowledge of the intention. The first time I read a thread on this forum was more then a year after this original thread. And we all know that you can gather no information about future releases on our competitions website.

I think that Admiral Toys has the uncanny ability to encourage our competition to actually produce what they have mentioned in the past.

Regards,
Jason

[Spudkopf]

I think that Admiral Toys has the uncanny ability to encourage our competition to actually produce what they have mentioned in the past.

So when are you annoucing the A-10

[Plane Nuts]

Funny bit of trivia: <snip> Unfortunately the 262 was already started.

Regards,
Jason

Why unfortunately? I have one made by your company, and a second on order already. That doesn't sound like it was bad for your business!!

[tmanthegreat]

Funny bit of trivia: <snip> Unfortunately the 262 was already started.

Regards,
Jason

It certainly wasn't unfortunate! Although 21c has anounced their ME-262 and shown unpainted, partially assembled prototypes, we still have yet to see a completed product from 21c. I'm sure we will in a short while however Anyways, AT got the first call on that plane (as well as the F-86) several months ahead of 21c, and I'm sure those of us that wanted an accurate 1:18 F-86 and ME-262 readily ordered one from AT already

[tko211]

Yeah all the posts are pretty much correct. I am glad that this thread came back up because it does serve as a record to the intent of 21st. Regardless, we have some great products to look forward to and the hobby seems better than ever.

Also the release of the Pak-40, hanomags, and m-16 halftrack as well as the announcement of the 88 and the king tiger should signal the fact that armor is doing better!