Which Sherman is Better?

superado · Post by **superado** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:02 am

Hi,

I'm trying to decide which Sherman is better, the Elite Force version, or 21C's offering? I can't seem to get past the use of a number instead of the star emblem on the Elite Force Sherman, but it seems that the 21C tanks are harder to find at the Elite Force price level.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:08 am

BBI's (Elite Force) Sherman comes with a great looking figure and tons of extra goodies(Grease gun for tanker, ammo and ammo boxes, MG ammo boxes) that the 21C Sherman lacks.

I like the look of the BBI Sherman better. I have both though...

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:12 am

Personally, Ilike the 21C version - there are a couple paint schemes...I like the camo one the best.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:25 am

I like the dicast Sherman - i only looked at the BBI one through the box but I dont remember seeing much difference other than all the extras - I'll probably end up with one soon - the figure on the BBI one was very good IMO.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:34 am

the BBI have a 105mm gun and the 21st Century a 76mm.

phil

digger · Post by **digger** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:05 am

They both should be $40 or under. The 21st is $40 here:
http://www.toysnswords.com/index.html?t ... D%20series

And if you buy the bbi version at TRU.com you should be able to use Google checkout and get it for about $30. As been said, they are different versions of the Sherman, which makes me think you need both.

I've always said the bbi Sherman has some of the most amazing detail:
Look! http://www.merit-intl.com/month/bbi21370.htm

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:18 am

I think the BBI is better, but because each tank has a different gun you may want to get both.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:26 am

on the BBI model, you can open the engine hood and see the detailed engine. You need both of them !

phil

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:47 am

I had both the 21C and BBI Shermans at one time. I kept the 21C and sold off the BBI. Both have their pluses and minuses, but the deciding factor for me was the gun on the BBI, I just never cared for the look of the 105mm on the BBI.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:36 am

You got to get both. They are nice in thier own right.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:48 am

This isn’t an easy question. Both are very nice. In my opinion the bbi one is better but I like them both. The bbi version has a nice paint scheme and had tons of detail. It has one of the best tanker figures out (even though I swapped his head out) and has a detailed engine compartment. The 21st versions come in a few different paint schemes and even a die cast version. I like them both but if I were to duplicate any it would be the bbi one.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:48 am

If I had to pick only one it would be bbi. But they are right in saying to get both. Each has its plusses and minuses, but they are both nice pieces in their own right.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 11:19 am

Both Shermans are good - but I would have to say the BBI version has the edge in overall detail and looks. It has the opening engine, ammo crates and other accessories, afterall. The 21c example (especially the newer Diecast, COED and OD Green versions) is accurate and perhaps represents the more "standard" variant of the Sherman with the low-velocity 76mm gun. The BBI version is the version with the 105mm howitzer, which was not as common of a Sherman variant. Neither tank has interior detail. Hope this helps

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 12:37 pm

I have both and the BBI Sherman wins hands down. The 21st version just looks to toy-like IMO.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:16 pm

I took some pics for you to compare. For my point of view, both are great as they are different. 21st is a M4A3 and the BBI is a M4A4. You can see differences on turrets, road wheels, sproket, general aspect, front transmision block, exhaust type, engine hood...

Here are the pics:

I hope it will help you.

phil

superado · Post by **superado** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 1:46 pm

Thank you very much for posting the pics, Phil, and thanks to everyone else for your input. Yes, they are both georgeous! With that said, I've leaned towards the BBI version with the opening engine hatch (I'm surprised that the 21C one doesn't have this since the Tiger I has an opening engine hatch). Also, it didn't hurt to take advice from an earlier post about using Google check out for Toys R Us; the site currently has the BBI Sherman listed for $20, but through Google's first time checkout users $10 discount, less tax and shipping, I paid...$20!!!

momaw nadon · Post by **momaw nadon** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:05 pm

I guess I'm the odd man out on this. I like the 21st C one better, because the lines to the toy don't show up as much as they do on the bbi one. Plus the road wheels/sprocket on the 21st C look more like the real thing IMO.

Again though like everyone else has said that they are both have good and bad to them. For one they are different version hulls. One will work better for a project than the other, like I'm working on a HVSS set up on a bbi Sherman, because I couldn't use the 21st C hull too early for that set up.

Also, I always thought the 21st C Sherman was M4 with the 75mm gun? The hull is dated with the straight driver/gunner hatches and solid engine dicklid like 1st version of the Shermans produced. I don't think it is a M4A3. Maybe I'm wrong.

momaw nadon

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:55 pm

Temp. not available!!!
List Price: $39.99
Our Price: $19.98

Grrr you bought the last one!!

nfafan · Post by **nfafan** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:23 pm

momaw nadon wrote:I guess I'm the odd man out on this. I like the 21st C one better, because the lines to the toy don't show up as much as they do on the bbi one. Plus the road wheels/sprocket on the 21st C look more like the real thing IMO.

Again though like everyone else has said that they are both have good and bad to them. For one they are different version hulls. One will work better for a project than the other, like I'm working on a HVSS set up on a bbi Sherman, because I couldn't use the 21st C hull too early for that set up.

Also, I always thought the 21st C Sherman was M4 with the 75mm gun? The hull is dated with the straight driver/gunner hatches and solid engine dicklid like 1st version of the Shermans produced. I don't think it is a M4A3. Maybe I'm wrong.

momaw nadon

Agree.

And your right; it's an M4, not an M4A3. See Tamiya's "Early M4", which the 21C M4 is almost a pantographed copy of. Which isn't a bad thing as the Tamiya M4 is excellent.
And yes, it is a 75mm, not a 76mm. The 76 bbl is not quite twice as long as the 75, and in US hands would be found in the "T23" turret we readily equate to the "Easy Eight" Shermies. Some post-war MAP Shermies in Pakistan and other countries used an M4 turret with the 76mm.

As it is, 21C could readily market a Brit Sherman re-paint, and with a modified turret and barrel, a version of the Firefly.
And possibly a modern IDF M5X with a turret mod and new barrel, as apparently the IDF used a variety of Shermans for their M5X series.

nfafan · Post by **nfafan** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 8:38 pm

I'll go back in broken record mode...

21C has already done the heavy lifting with the lower hull work of their Sherman.
They could easily create new upper hulls and turrets and do the complete Sherman-hulled family;
M10
M36
M7
M32 ARV
M4A1
M4A3 Early
M4A3 Wet Stowage
M4A2 USMC
M4A2 Allies
M4A1/76mm T23 turret
M4A3/76mm T23 turret
M4 Calliope
M4A3/76mm "Jumbo"
IDF M5X version
Other IDF Sherman-hulled versions, like their mortar carrier.

And forgot, the M12 with the 155mm.

I know Shermanholics that have to have one or more of EVERY Shermie kit in every scale made. 21C could get a lot of mileage out of that Sherman hull.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Fri Mar 16, 2007 10:11 pm

Plus 21st cheaped out by not putting a lower turret part....WTH was that?

Plus 21st can't do some of those Sherman-based vehicles.

Some of those need a HVSS suspension, and an M4A3 hull, which the 21st Sherman is not.

Like the Easy Eights. They are called that because they are M4A3E8...all of those had the HVSS. Or the M36.

And all Israeli Shermans (all types) had HVSS.

And it's not really a negative that the BBI Sherman didn't have star markings. It's a historically accurate paint scheme, plus many US tankers paint over those huge white stars anyway, because German gunners use them as aiming points.

If you want, get both, and cannibalize the 21st tank for its gun and gun mantlet, then stick it to the BBI tank.

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 5:10 am

I guess I'm the odd man out on this. I like the 21st C one better

Not really, I'm with you on this one. Although the BBI Sherman may have some advantages in detail and features, I personally don't care for that fat looking 105mm gun on it. Besides.... the 105 Sherman aint really a "tank" strictly speaking, it's a mobile howitzer, a self propelled artillery piece, it's kinda like saying the M7 Priest is a tank...I know...the Priest does not have a turret and is not fully tracked, but to me it boils down to it's intended purpose...self propelled artillery. How hard would it have been for them to just make a 75mm version...??

Light.Inf.Scout · Post by **Light.Inf.Scout** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 6:26 am

Me too

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Sat Mar 17, 2007 7:39 am

Bring On the 105 MM howitzer.

gives me reason to have 4 shermans - that are not exactly the same -

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Which Sherman is Better?

Which Sherman is Better?

m4

And while we're on the subject of Shermans