Just a reason to buy both F-4's

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:38 pm

Shin's wishlist for 1/18 and 1/32 with retractable landing gear and more:

F-14 Tomcat, F-8 Crusader, A-4 Skyhawk, F-105 Thunderchief, A-6 Intruder, F-15C, F-15E Strike Eagle

What no A-10? You should be ashamed!!

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:55 pm

p51 wrote:Nope. Gotta keep the peace, that includes the companies too because all three companies do monitor the boards.

Do the companies pay for this forum web site? If not, I dont get your point. We are not to discuss the companies of our hobby? How ridiculous is that. This is a forum, correct?
Are we to purely talk about paint schemes and dreams? I have never seen a forum in which you couldnt talk about the companies that make what it is you collect or do. I guess I could understand if they paid
for this site. Otherwise, seems a little absurd to me that only if we praise a company then we're allowed to talk about them. This is Kind of like a Kim Jung Il moment.

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:58 pm

Jericoeagle1 wrote:
Shin's wishlist for 1/18 and 1/32 with retractable landing gear and more:

F-14 Tomcat, F-8 Crusader, A-4 Skyhawk, F-105 Thunderchief, A-6 Intruder, F-15C, F-15E Strike Eagle
What no A-10? You should be ashamed!!

I want that too lol, but I want the F-14 as much as you all want the A-10.

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:01 pm

CW4USARMY wrote:
p51 wrote:Nope. Gotta keep the peace, that includes the companies too because all three companies do monitor the boards.
Do the companies pay for this forum web site? If not, I dont get your point. We are not to discuss the companies of our hobby? How ridiculous is that. This is a forum, correct?
Are we to purely talk about paint schemes and dreams? I have never seen a forum in which you couldnt talk about the companies that make what it is you collect or do. I guess I could understand if they paid
for this site. Otherwise, seems a little absurd to me that only if we praise a company then we're allowed to talk about them. This is Kind of like a Kim Jung Il moment.

Well said!!

nfafan · Post by **nfafan** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:42 pm

IMHO; Jason and AT would do well to introduce the F4E version first, as it was the most widely used version of the plane in recent years, and would lend itself best to repaints for the foreign users.

The USN F4s were certainly more colorful, but were put to pasture for the F14 long before the F4E was put to bed for the F15 and 16s in the USAF.

And if AT were to add a personaization touch - something a boutique vendor could do vs a mass-marketer - like a USAF tail-code decal sheet, think of the ex-USAF vets that would be snapping them up to tail-code their F4E to "their base(s)".

Anyway, my first F4 purchase will be a USAF F4E from whoever makes it first, and if I have room and one is offered, then a USN Mig-killer F4.

Plane Nuts · Post by **Plane Nuts** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:18 pm

One thing for certain...if there is one plane that had hundreds of different, neat schemes it is the F-4. There is room to spare for two companies to make models covering all the F-4s we would ever want.

Hell, come on in BBI!! There's room in the hot tub for you too!!!

The version I want 21st to make is Duke Cunningham's VF-96 Showtime 112 F-4J.

Admiral, leave that plane to 21st, and everything will be good in the world.

EnemyAce · Post by **EnemyAce** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:41 pm

I gotta agree that we should be allowed to discuss marketing/business practices of the companies here. (the board if not the thread) That's just part of the game, and part of any forum dealing with any kind of products. I can understand wanting to keep things friendly, but it's pretty obvious that the companies themselves aren't being very friendly to each other, and calling a company on its practices - products, distribution, dealings with its competitors - is a big part of why everyone's here in the first place.

Right now this is *the* defacto 1/18 aviation model board, so I really wouldn't be too worried if I were you about having one or more of these 3 companies taking their ball and going home because of some criticism from their consumers and audience as they are big boys and the business world is a tough place, and they'd only be hurting themselves and their sales. But go down the road of banning lines of discussion only sends those discussions to other boards. I've seen many the rise and fall of a message board over the past 15 years, and it usually starts when the admins and mods start laying down the law and ban people from saying anything negative about the corporations making the product.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:47 pm

I agree with EnemyAce.

Plane Nuts · Post by **Plane Nuts** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:16 pm

Oh hey, I forgot to mention... (Too much beer to recover from not having internet last night!!!

)

Just so everyone else can rely on my intuition...

I doubt that the 21st Century F-4 will be on the market in a year from now. It's easily got another year down the pipe line, so we can all rest easy!!

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:22 pm

Plane Nuts wrote:Oh hey, I forgot to mention... (Too much beer to recover from not having internet last night!!! )

Just so everyone else can rely on my intuition...

I doubt that the 21st Century F-4 will be on the market in a year from now. It's easily got another year down the pipe line, so we can all rest easy!!

21st says its has a release date scheduled for the middle of 4th Quarter of 2007

Plane Nuts · Post by **Plane Nuts** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:40 pm

VMF115 wrote:
Plane Nuts wrote:Oh hey, I forgot to mention... (Too much beer to recover from not having internet last night!!! )

Just so everyone else can rely on my intuition...

I doubt that the 21st Century F-4 will be on the market in a year from now. It's easily got another year down the pipe line, so we can all rest easy!!
21st says its has a release date scheduled for the middle of 4th Quarter of 2007

Yeah. Ok. Where have I heard that before!!

I'm just saying, trust my intuition on this one!! (PS, was the one who predicted the 21st version on Sunday!!

)

Post by **p51** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:10 pm

I AM the one saying this, as board admin I'm going to make decisions based on ways this board has been known to cause heat in the past. As such, I (and I'm not the only one) forsee trouble with continuing the topic of companie policies and practices with the F-4 and other aircraft being duplicated. As such as BOARD ADMIN I'm asking you all to knock it off before I start to lock things. There's no favoritism based on this to a certain company. I love all three companies and wish them the best, this is a decision based on keeping the peace. Clear enough?

Post by **p51** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:15 pm

I can understand wanting to keep things friendly, but it's pretty obvious that the companies themselves aren't being very friendly to each other, and calling a company on its practices - products, distribution, dealings with its competitors - is a big part of why everyone's here in the first place.

And as such, that's between the companies and NOT something that needs to draw in this board. A lot of people on here have their own brands they are loyal to, and having a discussion turn into a bash fest won't be tollerated, and it has happened in the past. Things going on between the companies should stay between the companies and not be drawn in to these boards plain and simple. We're fortunate enough to have direct sources from each company, however, they don't need to share ANY information with us. If this turns into a topic on the business rather than the products, it is very likely that the companies will go silent. I know this for a fact having heard some murmurs on this very subject.

So, keep this on topic about F-4 Phantoms, not 21st vs Admiral Toys as a company.

EnemyAce · Post by **EnemyAce** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:55 am

p51 wrote:
If this turns into a topic on the business rather than the products, it is very likely that the companies will go silent. I know this for a fact having heard some murmurs on this very subject.

Whoa-ho...am I to surmise from that that a particular manufacturer isn't liking the heat that's been sent their way recently and are now trying to twist your arm a little bit P51?

My guess is that even with some new delays, the Admiral bird will make it out first. I'm thinking that 21st will choose a different scheme from theirs, and the first two will be NAVY and cammo, with each doing one. Both good schemes - I'd have a hard time deciding which one I want first, I'll probably get the first one available regardless of the scheme. It's always nice to have the first one out, and there's no way I have the room or cash to spare for more than one of these bad boys, as I'll already have my closet filled with Dauntlesses and Skyraiders!

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:58 am

I know what you mean Enemyace. I am trying to figure out where I will put two F-4s. I really want a Navy and Air force paint scheme. But I am really looking forward to the Skyraider. That will be a big model also, so space is looking rough.

Post by **p51** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:57 am

Whoa-ho...am I to surmise from that that a particular manufacturer isn't liking the heat that's been sent their way recently and are now trying to twist your arm a little bit P51?

No one is twisting my arm. Again, how many times must I tell you that this has no political backing from a company. I've heard murmurs... and that's it. It's my decision based on my own observations of this board. NUFF SAID.

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:23 am

One reason to buy both would be if a lot of Mig,17s,19s,&21s showed up as targets

sarge · Post by **sarge** » Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:22 pm

VMF115 wrote:
STARMAN 352ND wrote: VMF-115,
It's in PhantomII for 89.99 on page7
JP
Thanks I found it already.

I am sorry about my ranting

I guess I don’t mind that they will be making the same variants….Just don’t make the same paint schemes for crying out loud.

My sentiments exactly. I think we're fully capable of supporting two F4s from two different mfgrs. As was stated in another thread there was differences in the F86 but they were both good. Competition is what makes the world go around. Maybe AT and 21C can come to an agreement on not introducing the same paint schemes. Lord knows the possibilities on this bird are endless. Sarge

wreckchaser · Post by **wreckchaser** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:10 pm

An F-4E would also be my first choice as my brother was a crew chief on them in Thailand with the 421st Black Widows. I hope whoever does that model will put the sharks mouth on it.The idea of decal sheets for units is a great one. I also wouldn't mind seeing a Marine bird as well

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:17 pm

Here is a shark version

http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/viet/us/kol32f4.htm

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:16 pm

Wow, I love the look of the F-4E Phantom. I hope 21st Century makes this shark mouth scheme on their F-4E. NICE!

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:32 pm

I think that the compition between the two companies will be a good thing for us collectors

I think AT will come down on the price to be a little more compatable to 21st. That way we as collectors are the winners

As somebody else has stated there are so much versions of this bird thay could make 6 of each and still have no copies. Kind of like the P-51 there are about 1,000 different paints that would be winners all. But that is a lot of P-51's .I think 10 of those could be enough.

Remember this is supposed to be fun and I really don't think that the 2 companies did this double take on purpose. Just very bad timing for them and very good timing for us as collectors.We can pick and chose at our will this is a very good thing.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 4:10 am

VMF115 wrote:Here is a shark version

http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/viet/us/kol32f4.htm

Hey the Missouri Air Guard I watched them go from F-100s to F-4's to F-15's as I was growing up, too cool.

sarge · Post by **sarge** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:47 am

pickelhaube wrote:I think that the compition between the two companies will be a good thing for us collectors I think AT will come down on the price to be a little more compatable to 21st. That way we as collectors are the winners As somebody else has stated there are so much versions of this bird thay could make 6 of each and still have no copies. Kind of like the P-51 there are about 1,000 different paints that would be winners all. But that is a lot of P-51's .I think 10 of those could be enough.

Remember this is supposed to be fun and I really don't think that the 2 companies did this double take on purpose. Just very bad timing for them and very good timing for us as collectors.We can pick and chose at our will this is a very good thing.

Ahh competition the good ole American way.

There's enough for everyone.

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Mon Feb 19, 2007 7:37 am

I hope they both make out well with the F-4, but I can forsee some trouble if they come out at the same time. It is likely that they will not sell enough of these expensive planes if they make a large number. Limited editions might help. I mean truly limited editions-not the Star Wars type of limited editions where they are limited because they finally ran out of plastic. I guess we will see what transpires. I hope that it doesn't put a damper on future larger planes. I think the hobby would benefit from different plane models than everyone producing the same ones.
Todd

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Just a reason to buy both F-4's

Well I'll repeat myself from the other thread...