Phantom II for 89.99?

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:43 pm

I have faith in Jason and AT to pump out a great phantom by xmas. They give it their all and it shows. This is going to be a heated battle to see whose phantom ends up being the best, but I think the fact that Jason and team are going back to tweak the thing and delay release by a few weeks will ensure victory for their phantom. Sure its too early to tell but AT seems to be a company willing to go that far.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:43 pm

I won't be jumping at the first offering - will probably wait to see the different versions and pick the one I like the most -

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:45 pm

p51 wrote:Again guys, let's keep who is best out of this until we see both finished F-4 Phantoms.

Its hard to sit on my hands about this one I'm pretty angry, but your right like Mike says, "Wait and see..."

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:05 pm

Jericoeagle1 wrote: Its hard to sit on my hands about this one I'm pretty angry, but your right like Mike says, "Wait and see..."

Exactly. You don't know how the details of 21st's F-4. Perhaps they have had a tooling for a very long time. I mean, they obviously have an A-10 tooling that is in your avatar, but never have officially said anything. My point is, let's wait until the discussion of who's F-4 is better until we see ACTUAL non-prototype products in front of us. Who knows how many tweaks these F-4s will get from both companies. How many tweaks did the Avenger get before it came out? So just hold back on talk of who's is better... after all, they were JUST annouced.

But, the discussion on business practices of the companies must stop here. Keep on topic or I'll have to lock the thread.

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 pm

One of my biggest questions for 21st is, what is the earliest we will see this thing in walmart? Will there be S designations for each version, or just each release?(for example F-4E S1, F-4C S1 vs S1 F4E, S2 F-4C).

And if the 1/32 one was the one shown in the flyer then is that thing fairly close to hitting shelves? We have not seen the big brother so I would think the smaller one is very far into production. And how much will it be? Since it is smaller will we get less schemes in 1.18 and more in 1/32?

And can 21st make ace planes, like Ritchie's bird, Olds(yeayea he didn't make ace in vietnam but does it matter? He was ace thrice over in previous wars), and of course the showtime bird that duke flew?

Can the black bunny VX4 be sold at walmart or is walmart too PC for it?

shadow83 · Post by **shadow83** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:12 pm

Yeah but if 21st tweaks there bird like the avenger we will see this piece in stores for christams 2009.lol.

Post by **p51** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:14 pm

Shin Densetsu wrote:Can the black bunny VX4 be sold at walmart or is walmart too PC for it?

I saw a Corgi ME-109 the other day in Walmart with the swastika on it... not sure how that got past them. But it's not nearly as non-PC as a swastika.

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:15 pm

p51 wrote:
Shin Densetsu wrote:Can the black bunny VX4 be sold at walmart or is walmart too PC for it?
I saw a Corgi ME-109 the other day in Walmart with the swastika on it... not sure how that got past them. But it's not nearly as PC as a swastika.

Good to hear! If 21st does make it I want it in high gloss black. That would be awesome.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:29 pm

Hi Everyone,

Got done shoveling the stupid snow and venting! Thanks 21st, Admiral and BBI for all making the exact same snow! Oh yeah, I forgot, they don't make snow, just the same 1/18 model airplanes, LOL

The thought that escapes me in all of this with the release of the intended Phantom is why in the world BBI never made the F-16 in the Thunderbirds colors. They can't say that the thing would not have sold. Heck, sell it at every airshow where the T-Birds are and they would defintely have sold the things, big time. I do not understand why a company would not put that out as it is a popular scheme and people are generally familar with the Thunderbirds and the Blue Angels. And the scheme is not too difficult to paint, it would just take some quality control to make them good.

I really hope we see a Blue Angels and Thunderbirds Phantom, they have to be made with all these Phantoms coming out. I'd also like a Phantom in the scheme of that ace from Vietnam, forget his name now. Hopefully there are a variety of versions and a variety of schemes.

Corey

Jolly Roger · Post by **Jolly Roger** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:30 pm

we should close this thread, honestly this kind of heat can make companies pull out sources to keep from this kind of thread.

i like the fact we have Jason and TKO and Mike.

think about this when posting things that may slander or cause a company just to stop allowing us to know things.

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 8:48 pm

I think I have a phrase that just might end this...

21st Century Toys has nothing to lose from making the same planes as Admiral, only to gain. Admiral has alot to lose. I think Admiral hasnt found it's niche yet (NO Offence). Since Admiral doesnt sell to the "Public", only collectors, via internet, I would suggest Admiral make more expensive, Super-Detailed aircraft, that are in a different class than 21stCT or BBI. Then duplicates would be no problem, since one company makes today's detailed aircraft, and the other (Admiral) would make very expensive, ultra detailed aircraft, with removeable engines, cross-sections, ect.

I have never run a company, so maybe im wrong, but that's how I feel it should work.

cocimitch · Post by **cocimitch** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:09 pm

Pretty sure this thread blew it for any "pre release" info. If I was any of the 3 companies, everything would be top secret until on the boat!

Competition is good, right ???? Not in this case

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:16 pm

Coreyeagle48 wrote: I'd also like a Phantom in the scheme of that ace from Vietnam, forget his name now.
Corey

Duke Cunningham?

nfafan · Post by **nfafan** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:22 pm

Let me pitch to Jason to come out with the F4E version first. This version would allow easy re-paints for all the foreign users as well, especially the MIG killers of the IDF.

This is also the version that MY WIFE wants - as this was "our plane" when I served in the USAF. I used to have a built 1/32nd Revell F4E on our coffee table for years! I'm lucky to have a wife that's first in the car for any air show or road trip to an air museum. And with her buy-in, price will not be an issue for whoever is the first one to come out with a USAF F4E.

Anyway...

And with the USAF F4E version, consider including a special decal sheet with the basic alphabetic capital letters in USAF tail-code colors, so that any of us ex-USAF vets can tail-code our birds with our home base of choice. EG, EL, etc. (I would guess that asking for another decal sheet with squadron/fighter wing sheilds would be a bit too much...)

Jason - you can bet that this degree of personalization capability would never fly with 21C.

Anyway Jason, consider my suggestions, so as to stand out from what will surely be an initial generic F4 release from 21C. And given 21C's deal with the WM devil, it will be years before any of us find any 21C F4's for sale anyway.

So yes Jason, AT can STILL have all the F4 business they can handle if you act fast.

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:13 am

OK, I missed a lot..prolly for the better. I will just say I hope
A) Neither company rushes and screws up, or takes TOO long trying to top the other. (Something tells me these will both be 08 planes).
B) 21C doesn't underestimate Jason's knowledge, commitment, dedication, enthusiasm and respect for the AC he produces.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:13 am

Holy Moley cocimitch, can your avatar be any bigger?

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:17 am

GooglyDoogly wrote:Holy Moley cocimitch, can your avatar be any bigger?

Yes, please re-size.

der Vogelfänger · Post by **der Vogelfänger** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:34 am

Plane Nuts wrote:
Plane Nuts wrote:I just had to do this...

Waiting patiently for 21st's announcement of the F-4 at Toy Fair this afternoon!!
I posted that in my first post about the Admiral F-4 on Sunday. How do you like me now!!!

I am not as upset with 21st as I feel bad for Bad Cat. For the past four years, Rob at Bad Cat has really stepped up to the plate and put his money where his mouth is. They have single handedly transformed this hobby for the collectors and set the standards that all other retailers are trying to emulate. They were the first exclusive that I ever saw in this scale (Big Beutiful Doll), they were the first to put out an exclusive series of planes (their F-16 ANG series), and they were the first ones to finance the development of a new model (BBI Zeroes). In the mean time, they have tried to do as many exclusives for the big new planes to make it easier for the manufacturers to put cookies on their development costs.

Now, they fronted Admiral a not inconsequential sum of money to actually put the F-4 on the market...and what do they get? Another screw job by a company that owes them a lot for keeping their head up when they were just about to drown! I am loyal to Bad Cat for their superior service, so I hope they can keep Admiral shooting for the stars!

Post Script: I had this to say about BBI a few weeks ago! I just never thought it would apply to Admiral...

Plane Nuts wrote: Finally, it doesn't make sense to compare them to the other manufacturers, since Admiral is in the boutique business, and 21st has a ready made market (which I am sure cost them more than their first born). BBI does what they can with what they have. The last thing any of you should want is for BBI to get in a bidding war with 21st for certain retailers' attention. Although BBI could probably win and use some of their other properties as leverage, it would be at 21st's expense, and I assure you that a retailer such as WalMart would rather push one to extinction for this particular segment.

VERY WELL WRITTEN....I already, via telephone, tossed my hat into the ring for BadCat. BadCat has done VASTLY more than many realize. After BatCat got burned in the Avenger "deal", it is good to see that they are working with AT/Jason, who in their own rights are VERY customer oriented and VERY good marketers. Let's face it, at one point most of us on this board said a collective "Admiral who?" or "Admiral what?" AT has shown us WHO they are! Thank you, to both!!

dV

Now for my F4 requests: USNavy, Marines, USAF, Luftwaffe...of coarse there will be a few who believe I meant to say.......the "L" word first, but this is my list and "I'm sticking to it"

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:40 am

cocimitch wrote:Pretty sure this thread blew it for any "pre release" info. If I was any of the 3 companies, everything would be top secret until on the boat!

Competition is good, right ???? Not in this case

Dang dude, fix that avatar....please! The scroll bars are killing me.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:10 am

So, here's the gist of the situation...

Setting: New York Toyshow..

Before the show even officailly starts, Admiral announces a "BADCAT Exclusive ONLY" Phantom II priced at $140.00..

21st announces a Phantom II a few days later priced at $89.99 and can be sold by ANY online retailer and Walmart..

Now Badcat has pulled their pricing and Admirals Pissed....

You can't fault 21st Century.. Obviously, it is a case of both manufacturers working on the same project at the same time..
The only difference is that AT's prices were too high (IMHO), and 21st's prices are what they should be.. (Think about it.. Avenger $69.99.. Phantom II (A little bigger) at $20.00 more) Seems reasonable huh???
Now, I am not saying that AT's Phantom isn't worth $140... It just might be.. But NOT having a choice and paying a higher price for something is a monopoly and we should give credit to 21st for giving people a choice.. The same would apply if roles were reversed..

Competition keeps prices affordable for the "regular joe" and keeps many people in the hobby that would be priced out of it..

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:24 am

why are all these posts blank?

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:25 am

aferguson wrote:why are all these posts blank?

Scroll right (if you are not joking)..it is an attack of the killer avatar!

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:28 am

yes i just figured that out.

Get out the tar and feathers, boys..

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:32 am

I had that same thought too until I realized that hugh avatar took up all the space!!!!

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:42 am

Can someone get rid of that HUGE avatar???

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Phantom II for 89.99?

And before we close this thread...

wow

avatar

tee hee