Possible A-10 Paint Schemes

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:44 am

yeah, gotta admit that a shark mouth A-10 could look pretty bad A.

Maybe BBI will make one!

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:49 am

Can I just take a moment to say that Birddog is one of the most dedicated champions for the A-10. This guy is SERIOUS about this plane! He and I have talked about this back and fourth for about 2 years now! Personally I hope you get one! You deserve to see it made man.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:54 am

I appreciate that TKO, but there are just as many other dedicated champions on this board for the A-10 that have been here longer than I have and have pulled for it longer than I have. Jericoeagle is one.

I think it would be a great thing if 21st would level with everyone on the A-10 and where they really are going with it if anywhere. I think the fans deserve that.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:01 am

Shouldn't you guys be in bed you'll be having hogmares if you keep this up!

I remember seeing that first A-10 image all those years ago when I only collected 1/16th and I said to myself I've got to have me one of those.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:25 am

Birddog wrote:I appreciate that TKO, but there are just as many other dedicated champions on this board for the A-10 that have been here longer than I have and have pulled for it longer than I have. Jericoeagle is one.

I think it would be a great thing if 21st would level with everyone on the A-10 and where they really are going with it if anywhere. I think the fans deserve that.

Hey thanks for the plug!

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:32 am

Jericoeagle1 wrote:
Birddog wrote:I appreciate that TKO, but there are just as many other dedicated champions on this board for the A-10 that have been here longer than I have and have pulled for it longer than I have. Jericoeagle is one.

I think it would be a great thing if 21st would level with everyone on the A-10 and where they really are going with it if anywhere. I think the fans deserve that.
Hey thanks for the plug!

No problem. You've been at this a small bit longer than I have...

Think I'm just a little more vocal...

Everyone here who has put up a rallying cry for a 1/18 A-10 is a dedicated champion for this aircraft to me.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:46 am

OOPS!

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 5:34 am

My Turn. Too big not too many color schemes and what ever the quote was is a lot of HOGWASH.

I guess there is a pun in there somewere . When Ford made the model T and A car he said ; you can have any color you want as long as it was BLACK. Almost every person in American had one who could afford it. The A-10 is popular, it will sell . The boys in the back who shoot craps on guessing what will sell , have craped out !!!!!!!

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:22 am

tko211 wrote:Um... kinda like Aferg said... Are we trying to support the theory of green camo or low vis grey air national guard markings to be all that there is?

Not sure why this keeps coming up? I count at least seven completely different paint schemes (not counting the variety of nose jobs) if you go to the links posted or look at the photos.

Corgi and the Franklin mint seem to have found them in their research..

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 6:42 am

grunt1 wrote:
tko211 wrote:Um... kinda like Aferg said... Are we trying to support the theory of green camo or low vis grey air national guard markings to be all that there is?
Not sure why this keeps coming up? I count at least seven completely different paint schemes (not counting the variety of nose jobs) if you go to the links posted or look at the photos.

Corgi and the Franklin mint seem to have found them in their research..

Sometimes I think it is just hard to admit the truth Grunt1....

Morian Miner · Post by **Morian Miner** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:18 am

One thing I wonder about the A-10 - are manufactures hesitant because of wing sag? I haven't played with dimensions of the wing, but just thinking that depending on chord length and airfoil thickness (in scale) with a full armament load, could the cheap plastic they use on toys take that without noticibly sagging?

And before anyone brings up my favorite quote from work "we can engineer anything....with enough time and money", we are talking toys. Look at the effort it took for 21C to do the folding mechanism on the Avenger wing.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:40 am

If I remember my calculations right, add a few inches to the wingtips of the Avenger and you should about have it. Wing area isn't that far off either I believe. Plus it doesn't have that folding mechanism to create a weak link.
Remember how some people defeated sagging rotors on their Blackhawk?

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 9:10 am

if well engineered, wing sag should not be an issue. Just have to make a small spar to support the wing, like on a real plane.

How did some people defeat sagging Blackhawk rotors? I still have to blow dry mine every few months to bend them back up.

EnemyAce · Post by **EnemyAce** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 11:41 am

I haven't - and won't - buy any modern jets, but I would be ALL OVER an A-10. That is one of the most wicked, wicked looking birds that have ever flown, and when you get all close and personal and see all 11 or so of those hardpoints loaded with ammo, and that pig-sticker of a cannon coming out of it's nose, I don't know how anyone could pass this one up. Just look at that underneath shot up above and imagine how that would look hanging from your ceiling! Throw in the fact that this badboy has been THE signature plane in US combat ops for the past 20 years, and you have a winner for all ages. Waaaay more younger collectors are going to interested in this as air-to-air combat has been basically non-existant since Vietnam, and with 3 or so basecoats plus the tigermouth and warthog tusk noseart means you have 5 schemes EASY with this plane.

Now throw in some text on the plane that flew home missing half a wing and an engine, it's air support missions in the mid-east to this day.

And here's the truth to Walmart's saying that the A-10 is a no-go due to lack of schemes or whatnot. If Admiral would have shown an A-10 last weekend and said it was coming out, TKO would have announced yesterday that 21st/Walmart has one coming out 4th quarter and thrown up that pic from 5 years ago as "proof" that they've been planning it all along!

Personnally, I find the Phantom an absolute bore of a plane that underperformed in roles it was never designed for, while the warthog continues to excel in the roles it was planned for from day 1. A-10 outsells F-16s by a long shot.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:30 pm

Enemyace, I have to disagree with your assessment of the F-4 Phantom. I have been lucky enough to meet and talk to a few former Phantom pilots, and not one ever said the F-4 underperformed. It would not have stayed in service as long as it did if it did not perform.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 12:37 pm

Sabrefan wrote:Enemyace, I have to disagree with your assessment of the F-4 Phantom. I have been lucky enough to meet and talk to a few former Phantom pilots, and not one ever said the F-4 underperformed. It would not have stayed in service as long as it did if it did not perform.

I have to agree I worked with a lot of pilots who were ex-phantom jockeys and they absolutely loved everything about it.

EnemyAce · Post by **EnemyAce** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:15 pm

Boring plane, might have been a fine interceptor as designed, turned into a multipurpose weapons platform due to the tight military budgets of its era, and a poor dogfighter. Fighter jockeys stuck with a particular aircraft due to their era will always champion what they have flown and know. Don't want to get off topic anymore, but the F-4 just happened to be the plane that was there at the time, and adapted to missions it wasn't suited for due to circumstances and lack of anything else.

My brother in law just retired from flying Falcons in the Gulf War, Iraq, and Afghan, and has flown the Phantom. He called it a "turd with wings." Anything that gets used for 40 years becomes familiar and what's familiar becomes popular by default.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:17 pm

Enemyace, it is sad that you have no idea what you are talking about.

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:23 pm

aferguson wrote:if well engineered, wing sag should not be an issue. Just have to make a small spar to support the wing, like on a real plane.

How did some people defeat sagging Blackhawk rotors? I still have to blow dry mine every few months to bend them back up.

If I remember correctly from a thread way way back, some people inserted a small metal rod through the blades for support. Had to be precise in boring a hole, but if it was done during the manufacturing process, it wouldn't be an issue. Like the spar idea you are referring to Aferg.

I do agree with Enemyace in one aspect of the Phantom, it wasn't designed for the CAS role that it was put into. Why do you think the A-10 was developed in the first place?

The A-10 has excelled at every role that it has been put in and is one of if not the most versatile aircraft because of that fact. Attack/Bomber, Search and Rescue, Foward Air Control, heck there is even footage of one catching an F-15 in it's crosshairs during exercises. It is one of the most sought after mission in the Air Force last I read. That should tell you something....

Morian Miner · Post by **Morian Miner** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 1:50 pm

Joke I always have heard on the F4 is proof anything will fly with a big enough engine. But, I've always like the looks of it.

One thing I'd love to see if the A-10 ever sees the light of day if just paint it plain blue to try to draw the Joe crowd in. However, alot of them in their forums don't like the 1/18 scale stuff because its too big. To each its own. Also, I'm sure Hasbro would be on that like stink on sh......

And back to my sag concern. Yes, you engineer the right spar in it, it would be fine. But, taking into account manufacturing, materials, etc, I still see it being an issue, especially with a full load. And this is something the fans would be all over. I can remember sag issues for the helos, F18 (if you folded the wings), and Avenger.

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 3:01 pm

Morian Miner wrote: And back to my sag concern. Yes, you engineer the right spar in it, it would be fine. But, taking into account manufacturing, materials, etc, I still see it being an issue, especially with a full load. And this is something the fans would be all over. I can remember sag issues for the helos, F18 (if you folded the wings), and Avenger.

I do not see wing sag being and issue (I’d be more concerned about wheel splay), the simple addition of strengthening ribs on the inside should address this, also flow channels are usually incorporated in the tool design as well (which also aid in the stiffening) to get the hot plastic to flow evenly to all points of the tool.

I was recently involved with some plastic inject projects that was far bigger than an A-10 and stiffing ribs where factored in from the outset of the design way back in the modelling stage and before the tool was even designed. As the object was so large test shots showed up some flow problems due to a combination of the tool size and the injection pressures available from the injection machine, this was addressed by adding further flow channels to the finished but un-hardened tool once these flow deficiencies had been identified.

Having been involved with such a project I now have a far better understanding of some of the issues that can delay the models from reaching us, also as a result I now can not pick up an injected piece of plastic without noticing the 2° draft that is require to allow the components to be ejected from the moulds

EnemyAce · Post by **EnemyAce** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:32 pm

I think the joke that Phantom pilots used to make about it is that even a brick could go supersonic if you put big enough engines on it.

What wasn't a joke was how these things got chopped up in VN. What, 1-1 kill ration? That's Thank goodness for the quality of our pilots and that somebody finally wizened up and put a gun in the plane.

The best lesson learned from the planes from that era are that planes designed to do multiple things do none of them very well - hence the success of the A-10!

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 7:35 pm

EnemyAce wrote:I think the joke that Phantom pilots used to make about it is that even a brick could go supersonic if you put big enough engines on it.

What wasn't a joke was how these things got chopped up in VN. What, 1-1 kill ration? That's Thank goodness for the quality of our pilots and that somebody finally wizened up and put a gun in the plane.

The best lesson learned from the planes from that era are that planes designed to do multiple things do none of them very well - hence the success of the A-10!

The kill ratio in the early years of the Vietnam War were about 2 to 1 actually for every one we lost they lost two. After Top Gun and Red Flag were instituted that ratio went up to 7 to 1.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Feb 14, 2007 10:00 pm

i seem to recall Mike advising that you should go to your local retail outlets and pester, request and demand what you want to see. So, you A-10 guys should maybe heed that advice and get vocal at your local retail outlets (eg TRU) and ask for a true scale, 1/18 A-10. Can't hurt and who knows what good it may do.

jeffrowse · Post by **jeffrowse** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 6:12 am

EnemyAce wrote:
Personnally, I find the Phantom an absolute bore of a plane that underperformed in roles it was never designed for, while the warthog continues to excel in the roles it was planned for from day 1. A-10 outsells F-16s by a long shot.

In what reality? Given their druthers, the USAAF was going to send all the 'Hogs to the Davis-Montham boneyard and replace them with more, new-model -16s but Congress nixed the idea.

The Phantom was designed as an interceptor and pressed into service as a multi-role airframe partly because the politicians (again) didn't want to pay for anything else and partly because it proved it could do the jobs, and do them well.

The 'Hog was designed to kill Warsaw Pact tanks - exactly how many has it killed? Sure they've got a few used by other nations but not one of them was on the plains of Germany, which is the theatre of operations the 'Hog was designed for.

If the 'Hog outsells the -16, why is it only America that flies the A-10 but there are what, 50+ countries flying the Falcon?

Strike 3, you're out.

Oh, and given the A-10's involvement in several friendly-fire incidents, I would be careful telling everyone how it excels at what it's designed for... for a bird that has to get so up-close and personal, that is not a good record.

Comparing the Phantom to the Falcon is like comparing a Bugatti Roadster to a Ferrari - different eras, totally different technologies.
Stick your brother-in-law in a 4th gen fighter and see which he prefers... (well actually you can't but trust me, birds like the Typhoon, Lightning 2, Griffon and even the Raptor would kick the Falcon's tail so far up it's butt it'd need to stick the tissue in it's mouth to clean up the brown stuff.)

And if the Phantom was so bad, why did the USAAF want to keep the -4G instead of the Weasel-configured -16J? Get your facts straight before entering combat - you'll live longer.