Phantom II for 89.99?

[GooglyDoogly]

Well my money is on Admiral. They have the cojones to put out two of my faves, the SBD (please, Midway scheme first!!) and the Phantom.

For an extra $50, I know I'm at least helping in a tinnnnyyyyy way of keeping another company competitive in the XD arena.

Hey, I know it's a tiny help...at least I ain't hurting it.

The Skyraider, I'm not so sure. But I'll probably salivate over it once I see it with a full load.

Hehe, what we need is for Dragon to come back into this scale in a big way.

I think 21st is still dizzy from the ass kicking they got from Dragon in the 1/6th figure arena.

But hey, toy business is business, right?

[Plane Nuts]

I just had to do this...

Waiting patiently for 21st's announcement of the F-4 at Toy Fair this afternoon!!

I posted that in my first post about the Admiral F-4 on Sunday. How do you like me now!!!

I am not as upset with 21st as I feel bad for Bad Cat. For the past four years, Rob at Bad Cat has really stepped up to the plate and put his money where his mouth is. They have single handedly transformed this hobby for the collectors and set the standards that all other retailers are trying to emulate. They were the first exclusive that I ever saw in this scale (Big Beutiful Doll), they were the first to put out an exclusive series of planes (their F-16 ANG series), and they were the first ones to finance the development of a new model (BBI Zeroes). In the mean time, they have tried to do as many exclusives for the big new planes to make it easier for the manufacturers to put cookies on their development costs.

Now, they fronted Admiral a not inconsequential sum of money to actually put the F-4 on the market...and what do they get? Another screw job by a company that owes them a lot for keeping their head up when they were just about to drown! I am loyal to Bad Cat for their superior service, so I hope they can keep Admiral shooting for the stars!

Post Script: I had this to say about BBI a few weeks ago! I just never thought it would apply to Admiral...

Finally, it doesn't make sense to compare them to the other manufacturers, since Admiral is in the boutique business, and 21st has a ready made market (which I am sure cost them more than their first born). BBI does what they can with what they have. The last thing any of you should want is for BBI to get in a bidding war with 21st for certain retailers' attention. Although BBI could probably win and use some of their other properties as leverage, it would be at 21st's expense, and I assure you that a retailer such as WalMart would rather push one to extinction for this particular segment.

[chunks]

Ok, I can see this. They've stuff waiting to introduce but can't find the right time. Someone else come along and announces it, and now they have it also!!

I'm not slamming 21c, I just wished if this stuff is in the wings that they'd make it available instead of waiting for someone else to announce it instead!!!

A matter of timing and that's all....
21st may have intended to announce this plane at the NY toyfair all along and was taken by surprise when AT did it first..

Three times in a row?

[shadow83]

I think 21st does with admiral what lowes does with homedepot.Lowes lets homedepot do the market research on an area build a store and within a year a lowes goes up.I think 21st lets admiral test the waters and see the reaction to the model.Enemy ace is probably right about them having quite a few models in the prototype stage.

[Sabrefan]

Competition = lower prices. Let the bidding war begin.

[grunt1]

Enemy ace is probably right about them having quite a few models in the prototype stage.

You bet! Most of the more established companies in any segment use this approach. Then it's just a matter of timing or market conditions (aka competition) that determines which ones to push through manufacturing first.

After all, they need sales in February 08 too, right?

Now for some humor (yes, this is humor not a poke at anyone.. ) to lighten things up a bit..

[chunks]

Enemy ace is probably right about them having quite a few models in the prototype stage.

You bet! Most of the more established companies in any segment use this approach. Then it's just a matter of timing or market conditions (aka competition) that determines which ones to push through manufacturing first.

After all, they need sales in February 08 too, right?

Now for some humor (yes, this is humor not a poke at anyone.. ) to lighten things up a bit..

Where's the SAM, there's room, it should be there.

[Sabrefan]

Do you mean Sam Walton?

[pickelhaube]

I have read all of the posts. I think that I am the fox thinking that they were sour grapes anyway. That is some kind of fable. I may die waiting for the 21st F 4 to come out at wal-mart. I will wait until it dose or dose not. After that time I will make my choice. When you buy in volume $90 is better than $140 . So wait and see. In my AO some of the 21st planes never ever were made available. So at $140 the AT will probably sit at Bad Cat or some of the other e-tailers waiting to be bought and if I miss my chance they were probably sour any way. The urgancy has now wained because of the new XD posting.

[chunks]

Do you mean Sam Walton?

Ahh, I didn't thunk about that. But it works!!!!

[Birddog]

I get off the road after driving for 7 hours through ice and snow for this... ....what a waste...

There is no way you can convince me an A-10 would cost too much or is too big. It's not too BIG if an F-4 can be done and certainly not too BIG or too costly if you say a B-25 can be done. Where's the logic in cost and size on that one?

Paint schemes.... ....weren't many paint schemes with the F-16 or F-18 and they seem to have sold very well. One through online retailers only.

So, here is what I want to know:

What is the FINAL word from 21st on the A-10?......WILL THEY DO IT, OR WILL THEY NOT DO IT?

It seems to me that even though the A-10 is a very highly requested plane, I gather from Roy's comments that the A-10 is not an A Lister plane in 21st Century's opinion...is this true?

[thetatau87]

Enemyace and Chunks you are both forgetting that when 21c did announce that they were making the Avenger way in advance of it actually being ready to put into production they caught all kinds of hell because they ran into delays and didn't deliver it on time. When that happened the collectors were up in arms the 21c didn't deliver what they promised. Which way do you want it? Do you want 21c to announce their production schedule well in advance to convince you they aren't gunning for AT or do you want them to be conservative and not announce release dates so that they are sure not to disappoint collectors again?

21c may or may not be deliberately releasing duplicates of AT models to under cut them, but I still think that duplication it is good for the collector. We get more variety better detail/quality and better prices. I support AT and I think that even with the duplication from 21c they will be successful. They are going after a different market than 21c's bread & butter WM shoppers. AT is going after the collector or the aircraft enthusiast that seeks out their products online. They have proven that their customer service and interaction with collectors can't be matched by 21c or BBI. As evidenced by your tenacious loyalty, AT has been extremely successful in building a strong customer base with collectors.

21c has its hands somewhat tied by it's affiliation with WM. WM probably dictates price points and volumes that need to be sold. This will keep 21c in the realm of the mass-market mass-appeal aircraft that will sell well at WM. The Me-109, Fw-190 and Avenger are all examples of how quickly the WM market can get saturated if an aircraft isn't popular enough to be bought by the average Joe. It also has to hit shelves at just the right time in order be a big Christmas seller.

AT doesn't have this restriction. Because they are distributed exclusively online they have greater freedom to make aircraft like the Dauntless and Skyraider that mostly collectors or enthusiasts would buy. Notice that 21c didn't jump on those bandwagons? Should 21c just have left the F-86, Me-262, and F-4 to AT because they were the first to announce it? That would be stupid and might actually put 21c out of the 1:18 game by missing out on those hugely popular aircraft. The market for those aircraft is big enough for 2 players especially since 21c can reach the general public through WM shelves that AT has no access to.

There is no such thing as friendly competition in business. AT is trying just as hard to hurt 21c sales as 21c is to hurt AT. If you aren’t trying to outsell the competition you are only contributing to your own failure in business. All this talk about communication and working together is naïve BS. It might seem better for the collector to get more variety and different aircraft produced, but each company has to do what’s best to make them the most profitable. In these cases 21c and AT are both going after the most popular aircraft. Smart moves by both companies and good news for collectors.

Who you buy from is all up to what you value the most. Do you want low price, good customer survice, responsiveness to collector input, or good distribution? You can't have it all!

[VMF115]

I just hope AT does not abandon making the F-4. That would be a sad day
if they did.

[Tinman]

This could really be interesting. The 1:18 F-4 that has the best detail and features will be the one that I purchase.

I'll also want to get at least one of the 1:32 version.

And great news that the Platoon figures are actually coming out this year! I had actually given up on them, until the news today.

[MIGMADMAVIS]

where did you find out about the platoon figures???????

[MIGMADMAVIS]

when when when??????

[Sabrefan]

I am hoping that both 21st Century and Admiral will make realy good quality pilot figures for the F-4s. This plane need awesome figures.

[Tinman]

MIGMADMAVIS:

tko mentions the Platoon figures in his 3rd post at the very start of this thread.

[grunt1]

Also you have to know that 21st is planning the Phantom II as a support ship to Platoon / Vietnam figures. Those ship out this year too!

Doh! How did I miss that! Woohoo!!

[MIGMADMAVIS]

oh thank you

[Jolly Roger]

well from seeing the quality from 21st century's stuff at Walmart, and AT's prduct, i dont care.

ill pay 140$ for something that isnt broken in the package/ broken just out of the package, or have pieces that fall off.








but seriosuly, so many modern Jets with just as much repaints as this, and two companys make way with both, kinda stupid considering 21st still had the prototype A10... tis a shame no one even shares the slightest info.

[Tinman]

It just gets better and better.

[chunks]

I've been involved in 1/18 for less than a year now. 1st was a Wally World BF-109g that I found on assignment and brought home. Next was, through google, MTS that is incredible for their service, after that came BC with their offer to ship with USPS Priority, then came SmallJoes for all of that, I just needed to be patient. When I discovered BC I placed my preorder for the Bunker Hill Avenger (Admiral did not exist in 1/18 at that time, to my knowledge). All that makes me a newbie in this stuff. It also allows me to judge what I've seen happen since with clear conscience.

In that very short period of time, we've seen introduced to the market the F-86, Me-262, (announced) Dauntless, Phantom, and Hellcat. Of those five, How many were introduced by Admiral, and how many were later introduced by others?

[shadow83]

I dont think AT will abandon there project because they know their product will be out on time and 21st will probably milk the f4 till christmas of 2009.And as for the A10 being to big just doesnt make sense here are the specs for both
A 10 Length 53 feet, 4 inches (16.16 meters)
Height 14 feet, 8 inches (4.42 meters)
Wingspan 57 feet, 6 inches (17.42 meters)
F 4 Length 62 feet, 11 inches (19.1 meters).
Height 16 feet, 5 inches (5 meters).
Wingspan 38 feet, 11 inches (11.8 meters)

The F4 is nearly 10 feet longer and while the A10 might be 20 feet wider
it is much easier to remove the wings.Packaging alone would be smaller and therefore cheaper.I just dont understand the reasoning.

[khatean]

$140 or $89 comes down to the quality of the product for the price paid. If this is a competition then someone has to declare a winner. Are there awards for this kind of thing in the toy industry. Best 1/18 plane of the year, paint scheme of the year, armor of the year, figure of the year....etc....?