tuskegee airmen 1/18th scale is OUT!

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:40 am

7thva_hunter wrote:Does a guy come with it ?

Here's the link

http://www.historicaviation.com/histori ... 20Fighters

7thva_hunter · Post by **7thva_hunter** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 12:59 am

Nice heads they got!

For once I want a plan!

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:40 pm

I don't think the red-tail Mustang will ship to WM. Right now HA is the only place that is supposed to get it.

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:45 pm

tko211 wrote:I don't think the red-tail Mustang will ship to WM. Right now HA is the only place that is supposed to get it.

Military Toy Shop also lists it and I've seen it offered at a third.

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:18 pm

Some interesting background on the nose art..

http://www.kctcs.net/todaysnews/index.c ... 11-07#2104

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:57 am

Last time I talked to 21c about it HA was the only place that had picked it up... That was a about 4 weeks ago though, so it sounds like that has changed. I will ask 21c about it in the next couple days to get the latest intel. I still doubt that it will go to WM though.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:15 am

grunt1 wrote:Some interesting background on the nose art..

http://www.kctcs.net/todaysnews/index.c ... 11-07#2104

WOW! That's south of me and I didn't even know anything about KY's role in this important project. The infomation said they NEVER lost a bomber.
That's an impressive record for any unit.

Rogue · Post by **Rogue** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:15 am

Razor17019 wrote: The infomation said they NEVER lost a bomber.

AP wrote: Ex-Pilot Confirms Bomber Loss

By Bob Johnson
Associated Press
Sunday, December 17, 2006; Page A18

MONTGOMERY, Ala. -- A bomber pilot from World War II says he was shot down while being escorted by Tuskegee Airmen, an account that supports a recent report by two historians that the famed black fighter group, contrary to legend, did lose at least a few bombers to fire from enemy aircraft.

Warren Ludlum, who lives in Old Tappan, N.J., said that his B-24 bomber was shot down by enemy planes over Linz, Austria, in July 1944, while he was being escorted by P-51 fighters piloted by the Tuskegee Airmen.

The 83-year-old Ludlum, in a telephone interview Thursday, made clear that he has great respect for the Tuskegee Airmen and liked being escorted by them because of their aggressiveness. He said he knew he was being escorted by the Tuskegee Airmen on the day he was shot down because one of them, Starling B. Penn, was shot down at the same time and ended up in the same German prison camp as Ludlum.

Ludlum's story supports the research of William F. Holton, historian for Tuskegee Airmen Inc., who said recently that the legend of the all-black fighter squadron never losing a bomber to enemy fighters was incorrect, according to Air Force records.

Ludlum's "information jibes with my preliminary look at the data I have here," Holton said.

The historian verified that Penn was a Tuskegee Airman, that he was shot down at about the same time as Ludlum and that they were apparently in the same German prison camp. Penn died in 1999.

Another historian, Daniel L. Haulman of the Air Force Historical Research Agency at Maxwell-Gunter Air Force Base in Montgomery, also has concluded that at least a few bombers escorted by the red-tailed fighter planes were shot down. Their findings were reported by the Montgomery Advertiser.

Ludlum's daughter, Maerose Ludlum, assisted her father during the interview, frequently relaying questions, because he has trouble hearing on the telephone.

"He liked being escorted by Tuskegee Airmen because they were a black fighter group and were more aggressive and would stay with you longer," she said. Her father concurred with her statement.

She said she called the AP after reading a newspaper story about the historians' report. Some surviving members of the fighter group have said they were offended by the research and questioned the findings coming out more than 60 years after the end of World War II.

"I had no idea who was escorting me most of the time, but that day we were shot down I knew it was the Tuskegee Airmen because the black fellow and I ended up at the same camp," said Warren Ludlum, who was with the 15th Air Force, 461st Bombardment Group, 765th Squadron, flying out of a base in Italy.

Ludlum said on that day he was a second lieutenant and co-pilot of a B-24 Model J bomber on a mission to attack the Herman Goering Tank Works at Linz. He said his plane was flying at about 20,000 feet when it was hit so severely that it broke apart and began spiraling toward the ground.

He said the plane leveled off for a second and he was able to jump out. But he said he wore his parachute loosely because it was more comfortable that way.

"His parachute opened, but he had to hold on for dear life all the way down," Maerose Ludlum said.

Only four of the 10 crew members were able to parachute out when the plane was shot down, she said. Ludlum said he was captured shortly after landing.

Ludlum said other B-24s in his group were also shot down that day. He remembered the raid taking place on July 25, 1944; a Web site for the 461st Bombardment Group lists the date of the attack as July 26, 1944. Holton said Ludlum's account of being shot down helps confirm his research.

"I stand behind everything I said," Holton said

They were undoubtedly a good unit, but is hollywood re-righting history?

JohnLumley · Post by **JohnLumley** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:15 am

Just a thought.....

Perhaps they never lost a B-17.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:17 am

I wouldn't say Hollywood as much as "urban legend".

In much as the same light of: "B-17's could take a pounding, but still bring the flight crews home (Memphis Belle) Whereas the B-24's couldn't take a beating."
There would be B-24 guys that would fight you to the end to say their machines were just as good or better than the B-17.

Time and the media can shape facts in many directions...

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:24 pm

Story goes "never lost a bomber" to enemy aircraft, didn't specify a particular aircraft. I believe it is Hollywood at work. ie. Baa Baa Black Sheep...

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 5:33 pm

When this story broke month or so ago, it also stated that the no bombers lost story started with the co during a briefing that made it into the papers, which was true at the time. However it looks like two or more bombers were lost later, (which is still remarkable) and the public legend just never caught up.

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 6:11 pm

BTW, Historic Aviation no longer shows this 'stang as preorder. Has anyone received any shipping info?

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 5:43 pm

Not yet.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:22 pm

I preordered one on the 3rd and got an email that they were on backorder so either their alotment sold out (likely), or, they are stuck in the usual production limbo...

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:30 pm

vmf214 wrote:I preordered one on the 3rd and got an email that they were on backorder so either their alotment sold out (likely), or, they are stuck in the usual production limbo...

Well, that's what I was afraid of. I'd preordered mine back in mid-november, got the acknowledgment right away, then heard nothing. Oh Well.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:41 pm

I bet its ready during black history month in February

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:30 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if Bad Cat ended up with a few as they did with the Euro 190's...at an elevated price I'm sure but I'd be in. Kinda pissed me off that HA didn't list the bloody thing on backorder on the listing. And now it's anyone's guess since they removed the preorder status, makes you think they're ready to ship. Doubt I'll deal with them.

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Mon Jan 08, 2007 10:48 am

VMF115 wrote:I bet its ready during black history month in February

HA says it's due to arrive to them on Jan 29. Sounds like you called it!

chunks · Post by **chunks** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:33 pm

HA no longer offers a sale/preorder price for this. Full retail at USD70 now.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:53 pm

I will wait for WM

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:12 am

STUKA wrote:I will wait for WM

You may be waiting a while. Have we confirmed Wal Mart will be getting these?

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:32 am

well I have basically seen every other plane at WM save the Huff and Russian Mig 15 - and the BC exclusives.

and well BBI items

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:51 pm

Historic Aviation quote:
This, the first ever 1/18 scale model of a 332nd Fighter Group (Tuskegee Airmen) P-51, is available exclusively from Historic Aviation!

I must admit it would really roast me if they show up at Wal Mart after being announced as exclusives. I certainly would have waited to get the better price.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:51 am

In talking with 21c recently about Bunny I have learned that WM will NOT be getting the Bunny scheme. It was Historic Aviation who spearheaded the project and from my understanding only HA is going to recieve the full shipment. I know that other on-line retailers have launched pre-orders. I believe that HA is selling some of them to those other places and that makes perfect sense to me. It basically allows HA to control 100% of the inventory or to allow themselves to become the distributor for other online retailers. Regardless- WM will not be getting them.