POST PANZER IV FINDS AND DISCUSSION HERE

buzzard · Post by **buzzard** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:53 pm

Thanx for answering my queries guys.

Found this pic of a winter tiger

http://69.93.119.2/photo/1/showphoto.ph ... 591&page=4

Is it a prototype or how the real McCoy looks out of the box?

MandaloreSC · Post by **MandaloreSC** » Thu Dec 30, 2004 9:58 pm

M4Sherman wrote:I had high hopes for this vehicle, but I think I'm going to wait until the QC is improved. (Knowing myself I'll wind up ordering one or two anyway ) I hope we can see an improved version,(i.e. repaints or different versions of the vehicle) or maybe BBi can make one.

Joe

P.S. for anyone who needs them I have gathered some reference photos of the Panzer IV they are in my site.

Do you realy think that BBI will do german vehicles? I cant imagine that. I dont collect BBI Toys but a friend of mine does. When I saw the Abrams from BBI, I was glad that there is 21st Century Toys. No removable turret, non-removable equipment....and so on. I hope 21st will go on with there line, because I realy dont like BBI toys.

PS: The turret of the Panzer IV isn't removable, is it?

KWR190 · Post by **KWR190** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 12:20 am

Its not that bad of a tank the only thing wrong on mine was the muzzle break was on wrong i hope WM gets these in so i can get more.
Kurt

digger · Post by **digger** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 6:03 am

Bruzzard,
That is what the diecast winter Tiger looks like right out of the box. It does not however have 3 figures, but rather the one winter tank commander.
The plastic Winter Tiger (in 21st box) is a lighter shade, or "less weathered." This version comes with 2 winter tanker figures. The plastic one may be better if you choose just one: the paint on the diescast chips/scratches easily.

As for the hanomag, a few places have told me the were supposed to get them again, and although it's been a while, it did happen with the S2 Tiger. Etailers were about 6 months off, but they did get them....

The Panzer IV does not open up.
If you don't like bbi then you must buy an M4 first so you are well informed

M4Sherman · Post by **M4Sherman** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:03 am

Do you realy think that BBI will do german vehicles? -MandaloreSC

I personally dont think BBi will produce German vehicles. They havent made any enemy vehicles or figures for there modern line so I think us seeing German armor and vehicles is unlikely. But I really do hope they will make some, as there Sherman and P-51 look excellent(I still gotta get that Sherman!) You never know...

Joe[/quote]

buzzard · Post by **buzzard** » Fri Dec 31, 2004 11:22 pm

Thanx for the tip/s Digger. Will keep your advice in mind.

Greatly appreciate your taking the time to answer my queries on a number of occasions.

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Mon Jan 03, 2005 7:40 pm

I'm looking forward to this Panzer IV from 21st Cent. Toys and I thank them. I hear what some are saying...no interior, no engine and no side Schurtzen. If you have some modeling skills you can fix these things. If not there are many members at this site who can offer tips.

I've got 3 on order from Bad Cat and as soon as SBP has them in stock I'll order 2 more from them ( there closer to home ).
I once bought a 1/15 th scale model Bandai Panzer IV... for $200...what a piece of S#*!. This 21st Panzer looks

like a big time winner.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:25 am

Assuming yours aren't broken when you recieve them, and lack of interior and engine aside, the tank still has a very good exterior - second to the Tiger and way better than the Winter Panther. All the little tools are removable! On another note, I found that one could get a figure to sit fully in the driver's hatch (with only the head sticking out) by removing the arms, and because its a narrow hatch, you hardly notice. I took my tank completely apart and dremeled down the little "cup" that the commander stands on inside the turret so that he could kneel and sit lower in the hatch; this also enabled the loader or gunner to sit easily in the turret side hatches.

mondaytanker · Post by **mondaytanker** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 1:36 pm

Hello guys, just received my Panzer IV today from Bad Cat Aviation. Guess what! The muzzle break is missing! I currently have an e-mail to BC. Anyone else dealt with BC and damaged merchandise? I personally haven't seen it yet, my wife ordered it for my Christmas present and had it mailed to her place of employment. If the part is in the box I will just glue it and re-paint it. If it is missing I will be very disappointed. Either way it sucks. But still, I can't wait to get home and see it in person!

mondaytanker

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 2:19 pm

it appears that all the muzzle brakes were put on sideways so you would have had to take it off and put it back in properly anyway. Hopefully it's floating around in the box somewhere...

lablksmith · Post by **lablksmith** » Tue Jan 04, 2005 4:44 pm

Got my Panzer IV in today and I am relieved. I didnt expect much but it goes so well with the other tanks. It really looks impresive by itself. There are a total of 8 opening doors as well. The only problem I have is the muzzle break which like the others is turned sidways and glued on pretty tight. I will get another soon.

mondaytanker · Post by **mondaytanker** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:56 am

An update. Upon opening the package I found the missing muzzle break and a short piece of barrel wedged under one of the tracks. As you stated aferguson it was glued on sideways. I glued the section of barrel back on then cleaned up the end of the barrel and reinstalled the muzzle break. It now has a better fit that factory.

I did receive a reply form BC indicating that they were willing to work with 21st to redeem the problem. I replied today thanking them for their effort and that I was able to repair the tank and would not require replacement parts or a replacement tank.

The Panzer IV is an excellent model!

I am surprised at how big it is. I thought they were considerably smaller than the Tigers. Of coarse the Schurtzen on the turret is deceiving.

I do have some questions regarding the tankers uniforms. I understand they are re-paints of the winter figures. But, were these baggy insulated uniforms issued with this pattern printed on them? And which theater? And is it consistent with the unit designation on the tank? I suppose if it is a terrible inaccuracies a simple re-paint to white would fix the figures.

mondaytanker

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 7:34 am

The baggy white winter uniforms we are all so used to seeing in pics and film footage were reversable and had a camouflage pattern on the inside. This pattern varied but the one depicted on the 21c crew is one of them and is accurate. These uniforms were turned inside out for fall time fighting when it was cold but there was no snow yet.

To be 100% correct the inside of the hood should be painted white, as this is the 'other side' of the uniform.

The Panzer IV was only about a foot and a half shorter than the tiger....it would be in width that the biggest size difference is evident. The tiger of course is more massive and has a bigger gun (and thicker armour)

mondaytanker · Post by **mondaytanker** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 11:45 am

Another update: Here is an excerpt from an e-mail I received from BC. Below is my reply.

Excerpt from BC:
I did receive a response from 21st this morning-- they mentioned this tank is meant to have a piece that is to be "snapped" on/off although not meant to withstand too many movements. It sounds as if you received one that was broken however.

My reply to BC:
I my case a section of barrel was broken free with the muzzle break still attached by glue. The muzzle break was also installed rotated 90 degrees in the wrong orientation. This is another common problem with the tank. On my tank the direction of force that broke the muzzle break and barrel was applied straight down, perpendicular to the barrel. After inspecting the broken section of barrel and the muzzle break I determined that there is a ball detent style lock on the muzzle break and in the barrel. I can conclude that perhaps the muzzle break could be popped out from the end of the barrel if it isn't glued in place. I hope this information can aid you in the future.

If the muzzle break isn't intended to be glued then the orientation would not be a problem. But it is being glued in the wrong orientation even if it is unintentional and during packaging some barrels are being broken.

I don't mean to beat this to death, just wanted to pass along what 21st told BC.
And thank you for the info on the uniforms.

mondaytanker

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 1:31 pm

Thanks for the info! Is there any way to remove the entire barrell and rotate that instead of just the brake? It looks like a seperate piece......

-Ski

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 5:31 pm

It seems that the twisted muzzel or broken barrel are defects common with the Panzer IV. As I stated in my first message on this thread, of the four Panzer IV's I saw at the Hobbytown store, only one was completely intact (but with the muzzle break twisted). Even if one looks closely at the picture of the tank provided by 21st (see the link to the picture on the BCA site) it shows the muzzle break incorrectly placed...

http://store1.yimg.com/I/badcattoys_1825_35242671

One thing that would have helped with this broken barrel problem could have been the insertion of a piece of cardboard with a hole in it between the flaps of the box to keep the barrel in place - sort of like what is seen on the boxes for the Winter Tiger and Panther. Better design or choice of plastic quality would also have helped.

Otherwise, the Panzer is a great looking tank and goes well with the other German armor!

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:23 pm

Hopefully this is a packaging flaw that will get corrected on the S2 and S3 repaints..

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 9:52 am

Got my Panzer IV last night and I must say it is awesome. Same complaints as others mainly, and a lot of the same praise. Here goes:

Cons:
End of the barrel is loose and spins around.
Barrel itself has evident "seam."
Barrel sags - it does not hold the position you put it in.
No engine/inside.

Pros:
Packaging is AWESOME. They wrapped the wire in plastic so it doesn't skin the paint off the model. The figures weren't wrapped in cardboard so it wasn't a nightmare to get them out. I was so grateful that my tank didn't incur battle damage just getting out of the box.
It really has the detail of a small scale model.
Painted tools, spare track and machine gun are all well done.
The figures are awesome - the inside of their hood IS white so I see no flaws with them. Same old headsculpts (and they could gihve us a couple of lugars) but that's fine.
The ball socket machine gun has great range of motion.
As said, EIGHT opening hatches.
Paint itself is great, even if you don't like the scheme.

Overall, I have to thank 21st for not only having faith in armor but also giving us what we wanted. I will surely collect many of these over time.

cmelt27 · Post by **cmelt27** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 10:16 am

Digger,
I got mine as well last night and noticed a BIG seam in my barrel. I squeezed the two pieces together firmly to see what it should look like. I heard a little snap (like a peg had found its hole), and the seam was almost completely taken care of. I don't know if that will take care of your seam, but it's a good thing to try. Hope it helps....

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:57 am

Thanks - Will do tonite

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 1:04 pm

Glad you guys like the Panzer IV. Its a nice looking tank, but no interior stinks!

red69charger · Post by **red69charger** » Thu Jan 06, 2005 7:10 pm

I got 2 of them from BCA the other day. Finally got around to looking at them. I really like these tanks and can't wait to get more of them. I will definitely be buying several more in the future. The conversion possiblities have me drooling ... Brummbar, Flakpanzers, and Jagdpanzers come to mind. Now if only I can figure out how to find enough time to do them. Maybe 21st will indulge us with one of these later.

gk5717 · Post by **gk5717** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:26 am

Other than Bad Cat where can I buy the Panzer? Does WalMart have them?

digger · Post by **digger** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:13 am

WM will likely have them eventually, but if you rather not wait (like me) it is out at most small retailers by now.

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:31 pm

My PZKW IV arrived in the mail today. It had the one common sample defect with the muzzle brake being 90 degrees off. The brake on my model simply rotated into the proper position. My tank was aslo missing the one unit Bosch headlight. It should be on the driver`s side fender. There is a mount for it, but the upper round portion was missing. One of the hinges on the driver`s hatch was broken. The break was clean so the pieces went back together with a little Testors cement.

The tank is labled as an "H" version. The tank is really a `dead on` late version "G" with the one piece commanders hatch. The "H" versions had armor bolted on to the front plate around the drivers vision port and machine gun. The 21st model correctly depicts the "G" version with the thinner one piece amor application on the front and gun mantel. This may explain why there are not side skirts. Most photos of the "G"s I have researched, have the turret skirt but not the side skirts, while also all the "h"s pictured do have side skirts. The one "picky person type-looking to close" detail is the mistaken addition of the PZKW III style entry/escape hatches above the second and third roadwheels on the lower hull. PZKW IVs didnt have these if they are what they appear to be.

TJ

Small Scale Military Headquarters

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