i get a lot of good feedback from people wanting a 1/18 F-4 Phantom
i think we need a vote on it
ok i think we need a poll on F-4 Phantoms
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KAGNEW
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ok i think we need a poll on F-4 Phantoms
Last edited by KAGNEW on Mon Aug 14, 2006 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
I wonder who would say "no" to this poll? 
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steelbonnet
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Sabrefan
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A good friend of mine is a retired Marine Corp pilot, and he flew RF-4B Phantoms. I love talking to him and learning about the F-4. What an awesome plane it is. Think of all the beautiful Navy paint schemes you could make a Phantom model in. 
Paul Hebert
It's been a long road, but I am still in the game.
It's been a long road, but I am still in the game.
When I first started looking at 1:18 aircraft about 1-1/2 years ago I was sure that I'd find a Phantom. It's kinda like model aircraft, you know they'll be around. What I found however were what I later determined must be "staple" aircraft - those "typical" aircraft that you'd expect to find in any collection. Most are with propellars because kids luv 'em. I never really understood the F-104 choice though (in terms of popularity). My guess is if yer gonna build a jet, make it relatively simple yet cool to look at.
As for why no Phantom so far, after some thought I think it's pretty easy to understand. It looks like building a very high quality 1:18 aircraft is not as easy as most of us might hope/expect. Just look at all of the posts just recently with regard to the Mustang and how critical we all are (myself included) as to the irregularities, options and even just plain mistakes. Just compare a bbi and a 21c aircraft and note the difference. Each includes both the good and the bad.
I'm not sure of the ratio between those customers who purchase your typical 1:18 aircraft just for a toy and those who might best be described as collectors. I'm not sure where my station resides as my interests include both. I STRONGLY believe that the Avenger is a big test for 21c. I think that 21c is pretty confident that the purchase of the aircraft by collectors is a given but like it or not, it is the "toy" market that will drive this particular sale. I think the birth-pangs over the past few years by both companies trying to perfect so many things such as the detail and quality of their product, deciding what market(s) that they want (need) to appeal to and the simple manufacturing of their product have helped produce some good aircraft but it required both time and effort.
Did 21c every think that they could sell an aircraft the size of an Avenger just a few years ago, especially one with the detail and workmanship of their current version? Many would have thought that they were crazy even to build one let alone try putting them on their shelves, expecially in a market that only a few (kids or collectors) had heard of (yet). The best bet was to compromise and build aircraft that all camps can appreciate. Well years later, we ALL know about them. We collectors purchase the aircraft before they even build the box. As for kids, you can be sure that not unlike when I was young, every boy who's walked into a (popular american retail store) over the past year runs straight to the toy section looking to see if there's a new one. Yup, they're sellin'
As for size, when considering the Phantom is there another like aircraft/vehicle that can compare. This thing will be 'effing huge. Here's something to consider, will Wallymart make available enough shelf space for a box of it's size and for the money they expect to receive in return? I've got to believe that the fuselage will be a solid piece (again to satisfy both camps). With this, the box will be about 4-1/2 feet long. Maybe even bigger considering how they might have to box it when the weight is taken into consideration.
Here's another thing to consider. Man if there's an aircraft they better get right it's the Phantom. This thing will be torn down to the rivets and they'll have to hire extra personnel just to deal with the flood of e-mails from people lettin' them know what they did wrong. This aircraft sits deep in the hearts of so many people who worked on them and flew them during the most emotionally compelling periods of their lives. Some of these are the dads and granddads pushing the shopping carts around the store who would otherwise have nothing to do with a plastic toy. He'll help the little guy crack open the box and from there it might be the intakes, the nose cone or the angle of the winglet that might bring back so many fond and unfortunately some sad memories. They've held these in their hands before and they were so much a part of their lives. They better get it right.
So who do you satisfy? Can it be done and perhaps most importantly, is it worth the gamble for 21c? That last question alone can perhaps be better dealt with in a seperate post.
Who do you piss off first? If you build a Robin Olds or a Steve Ritchie aircraft first you've got the Navy and Marine Corps lookin' for your address. Is "Showtime 112" politically correct with its pilot sitting in prison? Like the guy or not, he was definately one kick-ass Phantom driver and yes, the plane deserves recognition. Again, let the arguments begin (for another post no?)
Six months from now, during the meeting at 21c the question will be asked (again) - will the Phantom really make us money? Can we satisfy both markets? How many will they have to sell in stores in order to see a (real) profit because like it or not, it's the Wallyworlds that will drive this sale. Just look at the Avenger as a model. My guess is that they'll be a lot of TBFs under the Christmas tree come December but the cost of buiding George's plane and the F-4 is dramatically different. Would Mom/Dad/Grandparents have paid $90 for a Wallyworld airplane? Not if there's a $39.99 Mustang sitting on the other shelf. As for collectors, how much will the sales of their other aircraft drop as we'll now need to save money in order to buy an F-4?
As far as aircraft goes it will be their biggest project yet both in materials and engineering for sure. While they can be fairly confident that many collector's like us will have to wear a bib if even a rumor about one starts, after what the've done to the pre-order market for the Avenger they'll only have to guess.
Sorry for the diatribe. Just my thoughts.
Tpa05 out.
As for why no Phantom so far, after some thought I think it's pretty easy to understand. It looks like building a very high quality 1:18 aircraft is not as easy as most of us might hope/expect. Just look at all of the posts just recently with regard to the Mustang and how critical we all are (myself included) as to the irregularities, options and even just plain mistakes. Just compare a bbi and a 21c aircraft and note the difference. Each includes both the good and the bad.
I'm not sure of the ratio between those customers who purchase your typical 1:18 aircraft just for a toy and those who might best be described as collectors. I'm not sure where my station resides as my interests include both. I STRONGLY believe that the Avenger is a big test for 21c. I think that 21c is pretty confident that the purchase of the aircraft by collectors is a given but like it or not, it is the "toy" market that will drive this particular sale. I think the birth-pangs over the past few years by both companies trying to perfect so many things such as the detail and quality of their product, deciding what market(s) that they want (need) to appeal to and the simple manufacturing of their product have helped produce some good aircraft but it required both time and effort.
Did 21c every think that they could sell an aircraft the size of an Avenger just a few years ago, especially one with the detail and workmanship of their current version? Many would have thought that they were crazy even to build one let alone try putting them on their shelves, expecially in a market that only a few (kids or collectors) had heard of (yet). The best bet was to compromise and build aircraft that all camps can appreciate. Well years later, we ALL know about them. We collectors purchase the aircraft before they even build the box. As for kids, you can be sure that not unlike when I was young, every boy who's walked into a (popular american retail store) over the past year runs straight to the toy section looking to see if there's a new one. Yup, they're sellin'
As for size, when considering the Phantom is there another like aircraft/vehicle that can compare. This thing will be 'effing huge. Here's something to consider, will Wallymart make available enough shelf space for a box of it's size and for the money they expect to receive in return? I've got to believe that the fuselage will be a solid piece (again to satisfy both camps). With this, the box will be about 4-1/2 feet long. Maybe even bigger considering how they might have to box it when the weight is taken into consideration.
Here's another thing to consider. Man if there's an aircraft they better get right it's the Phantom. This thing will be torn down to the rivets and they'll have to hire extra personnel just to deal with the flood of e-mails from people lettin' them know what they did wrong. This aircraft sits deep in the hearts of so many people who worked on them and flew them during the most emotionally compelling periods of their lives. Some of these are the dads and granddads pushing the shopping carts around the store who would otherwise have nothing to do with a plastic toy. He'll help the little guy crack open the box and from there it might be the intakes, the nose cone or the angle of the winglet that might bring back so many fond and unfortunately some sad memories. They've held these in their hands before and they were so much a part of their lives. They better get it right.
So who do you satisfy? Can it be done and perhaps most importantly, is it worth the gamble for 21c? That last question alone can perhaps be better dealt with in a seperate post.
Who do you piss off first? If you build a Robin Olds or a Steve Ritchie aircraft first you've got the Navy and Marine Corps lookin' for your address. Is "Showtime 112" politically correct with its pilot sitting in prison? Like the guy or not, he was definately one kick-ass Phantom driver and yes, the plane deserves recognition. Again, let the arguments begin (for another post no?)
Six months from now, during the meeting at 21c the question will be asked (again) - will the Phantom really make us money? Can we satisfy both markets? How many will they have to sell in stores in order to see a (real) profit because like it or not, it's the Wallyworlds that will drive this sale. Just look at the Avenger as a model. My guess is that they'll be a lot of TBFs under the Christmas tree come December but the cost of buiding George's plane and the F-4 is dramatically different. Would Mom/Dad/Grandparents have paid $90 for a Wallyworld airplane? Not if there's a $39.99 Mustang sitting on the other shelf. As for collectors, how much will the sales of their other aircraft drop as we'll now need to save money in order to buy an F-4?
As far as aircraft goes it will be their biggest project yet both in materials and engineering for sure. While they can be fairly confident that many collector's like us will have to wear a bib if even a rumor about one starts, after what the've done to the pre-order market for the Avenger they'll only have to guess.
Sorry for the diatribe. Just my thoughts.
Tpa05 out.
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Morian Miner
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vulgarvulture
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VMF115
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I voted yes but only if they get it right the frost time and offer different versions from different decades, Navy, Air Force, Marines, RAF so on and so on. I would be willing to pay up 130 dollars for a replica F-4 that is right on the money when it comes to detail.
I would put money on it, in ten year from now there will be more companies making 1:18 sale aircraft.
I would put money on it, in ten year from now there will be more companies making 1:18 sale aircraft.
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Let me hear your guns!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: My what?
Colonel "Madman" Maddox: Your guns! Ack, ack, ack, ack, ack!
Captain Wild Bill Kelso: [fires his airplane's guns] AHHHH!
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tmanthegreat
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Bring 'em on - but which one? There are physical differences over the life of the various types. At 40+ inches long depending on the version, the thing would be longer than the Avenger's wingspan. Then figure out all the ordnance that it could have racked onto it and you're going to have something that weighs well over 10lbs.
I can't see any way to produce one for under $100, probably more like $150.
But as I've said before, there are enough Phantom drivers and sources of decent decals to make a handful of basic color schemes into thousands of custom display models for vets and their families.
I can't see any way to produce one for under $100, probably more like $150.
But as I've said before, there are enough Phantom drivers and sources of decent decals to make a handful of basic color schemes into thousands of custom display models for vets and their families.
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Jericoeagle1
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I believe that if anyone made the F-4 they would do what 21st did with the F-104 or P-47 make it so the mold can be changed from the early models to the later models. Personally I'd really like to see a late Vietnam model or an Israili Model.KAGNEW wrote:if they made any of them i would kitbash it to the ones i wanted
A little song, A little dance, A little seltzer down your pants!~~~Chuckles the Clown.
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DocTodd
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I wonder if they could make several versions out of the same plane making interchangeable parts like the tail on the F 104's. If so it might help defray costs and increase repaint possibilities. Not my favorite but an important plane and I would definantly get at least one. Would rather see an A-10 if large jets are being considered.
Todd
Todd