Anybody ever order 2 planes at the same time from BadCat?

[Lefty]

Just curious what the shipping was - I won a couple of their auctions on eBay and was told they were "too large to combine" when I asked for a combined total for both items.

Still got a good deal on both planes so I won't complain too much (and I have already paid for both), but I am a little surprised at the apparent difference in customer service depending on whether you order direct through them or go through them on eBay.

Anybody else have experiences similar or different or have any other useful input?

[flpickupman]

If the planes you won were 1/18, $12.50 is not a bad price to ship each separately. The last one I bought(1/18 P-40) off of Ebay listed the shipping as $20, and when I received it, the actual shipping turned out to be about $22 with insurance and such. So they actually lost a couple bucks from the shipping side. So don't feel too bad. $12.50 isn't a kick in the nuts.

Another thing to take into account is most Ebay sellers don't have access to the boxes 21st ships their planes in. Every box I've recieved (at least 4 so far) have been field expedient boxes made from either 2 boxes, or one really big box.

[kevrut]

Sent PM.

[digger]

I have never ordered 2 planes from them but if you wanted combined shipping I think you should have asked if they provide that service before you bid. The shipping was stated and they never said they would combine it, so to wait until after the auction to ask you sort of need to accept their answer.

Another thing is ebay gets you on everything and the only way to "get" them is on shipping which is not considered in the final value fee. They still get a paypal fee on the shipping (I said they get you on everything) so if the shipping is clearly stated and a couple of bucks inflated just consider it when you bid, don't hate the player.

[aferguson]

I've ordered two planes at a time from them in the past. 2 F-16's and 2 F-18's. Both large planes, obviously and were shipped together.

They may not be doing that anymore or as stated above may be trying to recover a couple of dollars in fees by shipping seperate. But at $12.50 each they're not making much. Could even be the case they're being shpped from two different locations, now.

If you're happy with your selling prices, i wouldnt' sweat the couple of extra bucks you might be paying for shipping.

They may even ship them together, even though they charged you seperate shipping, if that happens i still wouldn't sweat it. If Ebay sellers don't make a bit of money and recover costs there won't be any in future and the selection and great deals will vanish.

[Lefty]

I don't mind if an eBay seller wants to charge a couple extra bucks for shipping to help re-coup some of the listing and handling fees, and I don't mind when sellers state they don't combine shipping on multiple auctions (most sellers will combine shipping on multiple auctions if at all possible - the few who don't are the exception and not the rule in my experience).

And, like I said before, I still got a decent deal (about $40 dlvd. each) on the 2 planes I won, so I'm not bent out of shape about the price either.

It was more their reason for not combining ("too large to combine shipping") which got me as I know they ship 2 planes in a single box all the time when you order direct through them - I just wanted to know about how much 2 planes shipped together in the U.S. would cost if you ordered direct.

Anyway - no biggie, can't wait to add one of them to my collection and start pulling the other apart for my first 1:18 scale custom!

I'm not sweating a couple bucks - lord knows I've already blown more money on this hobby than most others I have!

[BadCatMatt]

Bad Cat Toys prides itself in being the straightest shooter in industry. We do not engage in "gouging" our customers whether they purchase from us or on Ebay. Our Ebay shipping/handling fees are in proximity for what it costs us to do business in the auction house.

Lefty, here's an actual cost breakdown on your parcels.

UPS Transportation: $10.10 x2 (6 pounders going from CAL)
Boxes: $2.46 x2
Ebay/PP Transaction Cost: $6.19

Total $31.31

You were CHARGED $12.50 x2 or $25.00, We lost $6.31 in shipping to you!!

------------

If these two items were combined in the same box Oversize Box charges would apply and the total would be even more. Two XD in an XD double box measures in at 88" Length x Girth. Anything over 84" is subjected to the UPS 31 pound rate.

UPS OS1 Transportation: $27.19
Box: $3.19
Transaction: $6.19

Total if shipped in same container $36.57

Gas prices are out of sight, shipping is a big deal and it is expensive.

As a regular customer Lefty, we would appreciate a call if you have any questions rather than settling grievances in an open forum.

[digger]

Ebay/PP Transaction Cost: $6.19

Total $31.31

You were CHARGED $12.50 x2 or $25.00, We lost $6.31 in shipping to you!!

Actually, you lost 12 cents in shipping and ebay got their $6.19 piece of the pie.
I caught flak for recommending locking/moving a thread but I think this one is prime for that...

[krieglok]

Not to stir the pot, but Ebay fees and Paypal costs are not supposed to be added to the final cost of the item. They should be considered when setting the minimum price of the item being sold. I know it is an Ebay sin to say that you are charging for such fees and it is also not considered ok to tack them on after the auction. It should be figured ahead of time and fixed into the starting asking price.
Shipping is a killer anytime you buy off the net and it should be expected to not come cheap due to rising fuel costs. Dont expect deals when it comes to shipping since it is real cost that has to be paid. The retailer really cannot haggle when it comes to this factor.

TJ

[BadCatMatt]

Not to stir the pot, but Ebay fees and Paypal costs are not supposed to be added to the final cost of the item. They should be considered when setting the minimum price of the item being sold. I know it is an Ebay sin to say that you are charging for such fees and it is also not considered ok to tack them on after the auction. It should be figured ahead of time and fixed into the starting asking price.

TJ

Ebay and Paypal costs are real and are part of our handling fee. All our auctions are good, old fashioned $1 starting price with no reserve. Our shipping/handling charges are clearly posted. In this case, $12.50 gets an XD boxed and shipped across the country, delivered to your door. Don't like the charge, don't bid--it really is that simple.

I'm not sure what book of rules you are reading from Krieglok.

[digger]

Gotta agree with Matt on that - who says you can't add ebay fees to your S&H charge? Don't like the up front stated S&H fee then don't bid.
Besides, ever notice that ebay charges you a final value fee on the sale price with no deduction for your insertion fee? Talk about double taxation...screw ebay..you owe them nothing.

[krieglok]

Ebay does and that is where I m reading it. I am not in Ebays corner. It is just that I once had auctions pulled for stating that ebay fees and paypal fees would be added to the final price. If you state that you will do so, Ebay will likely pull your auction. I know they are real costs but for some reason Ebay doesnt like it when you itemize and their costs. Just as retailers are not supposed to charge a fee for buyer to use credit cards, Ebay has a similar rule. If you read the Ebay policy, they state that you cannot add charges to avoid the Ebay fee. From the Ebay site:

Unreasonable shipping or handling costs - The seller may add a reasonable shipping and handling fee to the final price of the item, but may not charge excessive shipping and handling fees, excessive required insurance fees, or excessive (or not applicable) taxes in an effort to make the item appear artificially inexpensive, to avoid eBay fees, or for any other purposes. A shipping and handling fee may cover the seller's reasonable costs for mailing, packaging, and handling the item. Shipping and handling fees may not be listed as a percentage of the final sale price. Please see the complete Excessive Shipping and Handling policy for more details.

I am not against any one here, just trying to clarify Ebays stupid rules. Yes, I dont like the charges, that is why I dont buy certain items off ebay.

TJ

[supersonicfifi]

You guys make me cry i am living in France and the shipping range from 25 dollars US for a small P 51 or even 55 US dollars for an F 18 ! so all in all its not a bad deal plus Badcataviation s people are nice ! so go for it !

[Lefty]

Fair enough - "gouging" was a poor choice of words because it implies that I was overcharged when in fact that's really part of what I was asking about - but I think everybody is still missing my main point.

When I contacted the eBay seller (BadCat) to inquire about the combined total including shipping/handling on two separate auctions (a pretty standard practice), I was told that the items were too large to combine into one shipment. Maybe that is the case for USPS - what about other options like UPS or FedEx? It just seemed odd to me because I remember awhile back reading something on the badcat website that said it costs about the same to ship 2 planes as it does 1 when ordering.

Regardless, I accepted the fact that I made the bid knowing what the shipping would be and knowing that the flat rate might apply to both items. After I contacted the seller and received a response, as far as I was concerned it was a done deal and I paid the invoiced amount. I don't have a problem (if I did I would contact you) - I had a question about shipping costs and a minor gripe about the response I got back to my request for a total and I wanted more input on to determine if my assumption was true or not - obviously, I was mistaken.

Finally, if eBay fees and shipping are so high, then why list your items with them? How can you expect the customer to be sympathetic towards losing money on shipping when you said yourself that you start all your auctions at $1? By doing that, you risk losing money period (at least theoretically) and that just doesn't make much sense to me.

EDIT: I edited the original post to use language that wasn't as harsh and deleted my incorrect assumption.

Bad Cat Toys prides itself in being the straightest shooter in industry. We do not engage in "gouging" our customers whether they purchase from us or on Ebay. Our Ebay shipping/handling fees are in proximity for what it costs us to do business in the auction house.

Lefty, here's an actual cost breakdown on your parcels.

UPS Transportation: $10.10 x2 (6 pounders going from CAL)
Boxes: $2.46 x2
Ebay/PP Transaction Cost: $6.19

Total $31.31

You were CHARGED $12.50 x2 or $25.00, We lost $6.31 in shipping to you!!

------------

If these two items were combined in the same box Oversize Box charges would apply and the total would be even more. Two XD in an XD double box measures in at 88" Length x Girth. Anything over 84" is subjected to the UPS 31 pound rate.

UPS OS1 Transportation: $27.19
Box: $3.19
Transaction: $6.19

Total if shipped in same container $36.57

Gas prices are out of sight, shipping is a big deal and it is expensive.

As a regular customer Lefty, we would appreciate a call if you have any questions rather than settling grievances in an open forum.

[aferguson]

What Ebay prohibits is stuff like stating "if you want to pay with Paypal it will cost you $1 extra" etc.

You can't say you charge extra for people who want to pay with Paypal or state you charge extra to recover Ebay fees. However, you are certainly allowed to charge a 'reasonable' handling fee, which is partially intended to recover these costs (plus packing material etc). I've been through all this a few times with them so i know of what i speak.

The bottom line is they are afraid that by stating you charge extra for Paypal/Ebay fees that people will not use those services and they won't get as much of the cut. It's their site so i guess they can run it any way they like. If you don't like their policies, then don't sell on Ebay.

As far as the fees go, the insertion fee is just for listing the item, whether it sells or not (like taking an add out in the newspaper). The final value fee is their cut, if it sells. All auction houses take a cut. I'm not defending them, just explaining the system. And again, if you don't like it, you don't have to sell (or buy) on Ebay. I've never understood people who bitch about Ebay but then use it.

The only complaints i have had with them are poor site reliability, which is much better now, terrible customer service (also improved) and constant cosmetic changes to their format, so you have to re-learn where everything is when doing listings and other administrative tasks (but they've gotten better about that too).

The world would be a worse place without Ebay. Some of you think you're paying alot for toys now.....watch out if there was no global internet auction site. That is where the TRUE value of items is determined.

[VMF115]

My Girl Friend bought me a Bbi Zero "green" from you, a month ago. I was very pleased with your shipping and how you packaged it. Also it arrived quickly!!!! AAA++++!!!!

[digger]

I've never understood people who bitch about Ebay but then use it.

Easy there - I bitch about the PO but use it all the time. In America we voice our displeasure in hopes of getting things change. We don't just pack up our toys and go home.

[Lefty]

Exactly - and that's pretty much the point of this thread, so why would you say it's a prime candidate for deletion and/or lockdown? I can't ask a question and/or voice my *mild* displeasure about apparent inconsistencies in combined shipping?

I've never understood people who bitch about Ebay but then use it.

Easy there - I bitch about the PO but use it all the time. In America we voice our displeasure in hopes of getting things change. We don't just pack up our toys and go home.

[catman]

GUYS!! Sellers pay the Fees. When you go to a grocery market, they dont charge you for the price it costed them to label the product..

[aferguson]

of course they do.....they charge you for the price of every cost they have. It's just built into the price you pay, so it's less obvious.

[BadCatMatt]

Exactly - and that's pretty much the point of this thread, so why would you say it's a prime candidate for deletion and/or lockdown? I can't ask a question and/or voice my *mild* displeasure about apparent inconsistencies in combined shipping.

If you actually READ my post above, you'll find that your questions have been answered already. But to put it even more simply, if you put two XD in the same box, it costs more to ship than if they are sent separately to your locale. That's what "too large to combine" means, although "too large to combine economically" would be technically more accurate. Other products like, two BBI Mustangs, can be combined into the same container and due to their smaller size, can be shipped together with a corresponding reduction in shipping.

We ship hundreds of packages daily. We know all the ins and outs of the shipping game--and it's our job to do so. When we can use USPS to save customers' money over UPS or vice versa, we do so. How many people here have placed an order then had shipping lowered when the final receipt comes through?--Don't laugh, we do it all the time!

The true inconsistency here is the buyer who tries to renegotiate clear shipping terms after the auction is over. Then backstabs the seller by bashing him with groundless accusations in a public forum when he doesn't get his way. As your trading partner Lefty, we would have never done this to you.

[digger]

Exactly - and that's pretty much the point of this thread, so why would you say it's a prime candidate for deletion and/or lockdown? I can't ask a question and/or voice my *mild* displeasure about apparent inconsistencies in combined shipping?

Yes, you can and did. And now it is going in circles and has nothing to do with 1:18 scale products; it has to do with BCA and shipping. I didn't say deletion - I said lock or MOVE.

[toyktdlgh]

I know this topic will probably be locked soon because it has been well beaten over but I must say that $12 or so per plane sure sounds like a decent deal to me. I have had many purchases with the Cat and have never, ever had one single issue with them or their shipping prices and as a mater of fact, I have had my shipping prices adjusted for the better in the past.

[Lefty]

You've got to be kidding me - I never tried to "renegotiate" anything; all I did was ask for a total for both auctions and assumed they could be combined into the same box because, as you said yourself, you do it all the time. If you had replied back and said "sorry, too large to combine into 1 shipment without charging more for shipping" I wouldn't have made the original post - and as you indicated, it was your failure to be clear/complete in your reply that led to my confusion/irritation. And what bashing? - at least I was man enough to admit my mistake and I edited my original post to remove anything that was over the top. This has gone well beyond the original spirit/intent of my original post *AS WELL AS* the edited version - so I'm going to drop it and move on. Best wishes to everyone at BadCat and thanks for generally doing an excellent job with all my past and hopefully future orders.

Exactly - and that's pretty much the point of this thread, so why would you say it's a prime candidate for deletion and/or lockdown? I can't ask a question and/or voice my *mild* displeasure about apparent inconsistencies in combined shipping.

If you actually READ my post above, you'll find that your questions have been answered already. But to put it even more simply, if you put two XD in the same box, it costs more to ship than if they are sent separately to your locale. That's what "too large to combine" means, although "too large to combine economically" would be technically more accurate. Other products like, two BBI Mustangs, can be combined into the same container and due to their smaller size, can be shipped together with a corresponding reduction in shipping.

We ship hundreds of packages daily. We know all the ins and outs of the shipping game--and it's our job to do so. When we can use USPS to save customers' money over UPS or vice versa, we do so. How many people here have placed an order then had shipping lowered when the final receipt comes through?--Don't laugh, we do it all the time!

The true inconsistency here is the buyer who tries to renegotiate clear shipping terms after the auction is over. Then backstabs the seller by bashing him with groundless accusations in a public forum when he doesn't get his way. As your trading partner Lefty, we would have never done this to you.

[aferguson]

ok.......now that both sides have had a chance to express their views and rebute the other's, it's time for this thread to close.

Please use email to settle any further issues on this and similar matters.