"New York Bombers"

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 6:43 am

Just saw a great show on the Military Channel called "Target America" about Axis plans to attack us in WW2.

There was a section on the "New York Bombers", with Hitler's personal plans to bomb Mahattan. The Me-264 and the Ju-390.

I want one in 1/18, but would settle for one smaller.

Were they ever built or were they just designs? BTW, Hitler wanted "ground zero" to the in the Bowery on 7th Avenue. Guess he wanted to scare us by bombing bums, and lighting stores.

TTT

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:15 am

The Germans built three of them between 1942 and 1944. They supposedly had one at Lechfeld airport to take Hitler to Japan in 1944 during the ill fated attempt to take him out of power. The plane was designed before America`s entry into the war, for the purpose of bombing New York City. I guess the writing was on the wall when it came to the question of US involvment in the war...

TJ

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:49 am

TJ:

Very nice M-37 on your avitar.

Mine:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/263 ... 2104LsIRnS

Still like to see one of those "big guy" bomber in 1/18 or 1/32.

TTT

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 4:46 pm

I know of at least one 1:72 scale kit of a proposed "America Bomber," the Arado AR.E 555, made by the Revell company (which is German). I got my kit in Europe, though I've seen it in the US. Its a neat and highly detailed little model. However, I don't see how the aircraft could have gone to and from NYC from Germany or occupied Europe given its relatively small size and the fact that it was jet powered and would have to carry loads of fuel.

There's also an interesting book Luftwaffe Secret Projects: Strategic Bombers 1939-1945 by Dieter Herwig and Heinz Rode that chronicles such aircraft that were proposed. If the war had gone into 1946, who knows...

Oh, and BTW, I really wish I had the Military Channel

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:41 pm

I've heard so many different versions of how it can be accomplished.

1- Just buid a bomber that is also a seaplane, land in the North Atlantic and be refueled by U-Boats.

2- Make it a one way trip, after the bombing run fly back over the Atlantic and crash land on the water at a predetermined spot and the crew to be picked up by U-Boats.

Simple plans, nothing could go wrong with those great Hitler plans. Hitler was obsessed with bombing NYC with the idea that Americans would be so afraid of German air power, they would demand that our government withdraw from the Allies.

Kind of like the Japanese plans to use balloons to fly from Japan and carry bombs which when they landed and exploded they would start mamouth forest fires to incinerate the Pacific Coast. They planned on usingt 10,000 of these balloon bombs. They made and released 2,000 and about 200 landed in the West, in Canada and one made it to either Indiana or Michigan. A few fires were set but the Japanese didn't figure on the wet rainy season on the Pacific Coast. Most fires just fizzled out. A group of boy scouts on a camping trip found one and six were killed when they handled it and it went off. Five scouts and the wife of the scout master were killed.

The reason they tinkered with it was because nobody outside our government knew anything about these bombs. A news blackout was clamped down and not a peep appeared in any newspaper, not even the New York Times...

. The Japanese never found out that any of these bombs made it to the USA and they cancelled the rest of the program. They had counted on the forest fires to scare us so much, we would all just give up and if that hapened we'd all be driving Honda's, Toyota's, and we'd all be listening th Sony radios and TV's..........wait a minute

The best laid plans to often go astray.

TTT

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 8:55 pm

Threetoughtrucks wrote: They had counted on the forest fires to scare us so much, we would all just give up and if that hapened we'd all be driving Honda's, Toyota's, and we'd all be listening th Sony radios and TV's..........wait a minute

The best laid plans to often go astray.

TTT

Moth · Post by **Moth** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 9:01 pm

Nice one there Tman!

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:56 am

There was a prototype Me-264 bomber built TTT but it was destroyed in an allied air raid. It was surprisingly similar to a B-29 in general shape and could have made the trip to New York and back from bases in Western France. The bomb load was not as impressive as the B-29 though and its effect on New York would have had the same effect as raids on London. It just would have strenthened our resolve and caused us to move east coast production further inland.

Mark

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:18 am

Bomb load wouldnt matter, they planned on using a nuke.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 10:30 am

The Germans also had a plan to tow a V-2 on a sled by a U-Boat into the south Atlantic and fire it at NYC. They never gave up......

But then again, didn't we have a plan to turn an iceberg into an aircraft carrier to carry Avengers into sub hunting duty in the mid Atlantic.

I'd like to have seen them do that

TTT

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:42 pm

What was that stuff called? piecreat? it was something mixed with water and frozen, then cut into blocks to make a ship in this case an aircraft carrier. That would have been cool

sorry just had to say that.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 1:44 pm

normandy wrote:What was that stuff called? piecreat? it was something mixed with water and frozen, then cut into blocks to make a ship in this case an aircraft carrier. That would have been cool sorry just had to say that.

I don't remember the specific name, but it was essentially frozen water (ice) mixed with sawdust. The sawdust prevented the ice from melting too fast and greatly strengthened it.

momaw nadon · Post by **momaw nadon** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:05 pm

Interesting read. The only project that I knew of that was like this was the Horten Flying Wing G-229 (first model) or something like that. Birth of stealth type aircraft and plans were for larger jet powered Flying Wings to be able to fly from Germany to NY and back. With the data they had on the first one it was possible. If the war would have been drawn out longer, who knows, the plan might have worked. It took us like 35 or so years later to go back to this idea with the B2 Stealth Bomber and it works.

Ice block aircraft carrier was a joint project between US and Britian. There was many hair brained ideas like that during that time and on both sides.

momaw nadon

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:25 pm

Pulled up and saw that show again.

To correct my earlier post:

The Japanese launched 9,000 balloon bombs, approx 1,000 made it to the US and caused about 200 small fires.

TTT

normandy · Post by **normandy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 3:54 pm

Thats it Tman, sawdust! and to think these ideas were (are) over 60 years old.
And I hope you can get the Military Channel

scbvideoboy · Post by **scbvideoboy** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:11 pm

It took us like 35 or so years later to go back to this idea with the B2 Stealth Bomber and it works.

Supposedly engineers went to a US avaition musuem where parts of that german flying wing are stored to get data before the B2 was built.

Gotta love the TV shows, there was ashow on the avenger not too long ago.

DH

momaw nadon · Post by **momaw nadon** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 6:41 pm

scbvideoboy wrote:
It took us like 35 or so years later to go back to this idea with the B2 Stealth Bomber and it works.
Supposedly engineers went to a US avaition musuem where parts of that german flying wing are stored to get data before the B2 was built.

DH

I have heard it argued both ways. Saying yes the Flying Wing influenced the design and no it had no impact on the design. Ether way you look at it the Flying Wing was the grandfather of the B2. The Horten brother even discover that the engines being placed like they were reduce the Radars ability to track it by 35% or something like that. Stealth back in the mid 40s

. Granted the Radar was new back then too, but it is a neat fact.

momaw nadon

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:11 pm

I recently watched a show on WWII's effect on Kansas City. They mentioned a POW camp in Liberty, Mo. where many German POW's spent time. One of the former POW'S was interviewd and he mentioned that the POW's were dumb founded to see that NYC was untouched when they first arrived stateside. They had been told that NYC was destroyed after the German Luftwaffe had bombed it.

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 8:34 am

Threetoughtrucks wrote:TJ:

Very nice M-37 on your avitar.

Mine:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/263 ... 2104LsIRnS

Still like to see one of those "big guy" bomber in 1/18 or 1/32.

TTT

Thanks TTT. My M37 comes out for the occasional parade and a Sunday drive now and then. Just busted the rear universal joint and replaced it. I like your M715. Those 5/4 tons were always nice looking trucks. My buddy was in a service unit in VietNam and they had three M37s. They were all destroyed in a rocket attack and replaced with 715s. They didnt like the 715s so they would park the near the perimeter hoping they would get hit but they never did. They had hoped to get m37s back. I still think they are decent vehicles though and I wouldnt mind having one someday...

TJ

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 11:02 am

The Nazi atomic bomb program was significantly behind the U.S. Developements in rockets are what really killed the long range America bomber. The rockets were cheaper and would have eventually outranged any aircraft they could build despite what kind of bombs that were carried.