Which sells, German or Allied stuff

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:42 pm

a sherman firefly would be a pretty easy custom. I bought a cheap sherman on ebay just for that purpose.

yes a matilda or churchill (or both) would be delectable....

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:17 pm

I vote Matilda. The Churchill is just too dog ugly(and antiquated. shades of WWI anybody?), and the Matilda was able to give anything short of a Tiger fits with that 40mm solid shot gun.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:36 pm

Ok, quick question for all you armor guys out there. How many different Sherman variants were made? I mean all of them right down to the different turrets and armor. I can’t seem to find a good source on its history. Maybe not such a quick question after all.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:59 pm

1/16 Churchill by IMA based in Hong Kong. Multi media kit with alluminum barrel. I bet it ain't cheap.

Maybe someone will do a cheap r/c knock off of it.

http://www.imaco.com.hk/cgi-bin/prod.pl?id=IMA02316#f1

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:15 pm

Toykt:

Without even trying I can come up with eight Hull designs.

M4
M4A1 (early)
M4A1 (late)
M4A2
M4A3 (early)
M4A3 (late)
M4A4
M4A6

Now that's only the hull. Add different turrets for different guns, flamethrowers, wrecker versions. mine exploders, rocket launchers.

Then there are all the other vehicles that used the running gear and a complete new hull top like the M10 Tank Destroyers and the M7 Priest and who knows what else.

You can write a book,.... as a matter of fact, I have at least a couple of books already written about the Sherman.

Add in what other countries did to put Shermans in their service......

My head hurts........

TTT

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 8:28 pm

Jason:

You want an M7, M10, 6x6 GMC, towed 155mm, M-5 Stuart???

How about an M4 High Speed Tractor for that 155mm, or a Tiger, a Panther, a Stug? How about an AMTRAK, I know you like the AMTRAK.

All are available right now.......of course, the catch is... (there always is a catch isn't there)..is you have to come to the "dark side" of collecting, 1/6.

BTW, the AMTRAK can hold a dozen 12" guys, or a Jeep AND it floats.

TTT

momaw nadon · Post by **momaw nadon** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:14 pm

I would think that both sell just as well. Maybe German stuff sells better, but not by much. Most of Dragons stuff in German WWII, so that should say something.
momaw nadon

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:26 pm

Oh yes IMA!!! I'm looking forward to that Churchill!!! After all, one of the first Tigers to be knocked out by the Western Allies in a tank vs tank combat are knocked out by Churchills.

But I doubt it will be RC'ed. I noticed that that models that get bootlegged by HK companies are made by Japanese companies, like Tokyo Marui or Tamiya.

Trumpeter, which is a Chinese company, never had their T-34 bootlegged, the RC version of the T-34 was actually done by the RC division of Trumpeter.

and much as I would like BBI to make other version of Shermans, A Firefly won't work with the M4A3 hull.

And the BBI turret is a high bustle turret. I don't think I've seen a Firefly with a high bustle turret before...and the loader's hatch is the wrong shape too. The 21ct version is a great candidate for an accurate Firefly. I'd make one, but I have no idea how to accurately do the muzzle break.

RED · Post by **RED** » Mon Jun 26, 2006 10:14 pm

I'll go with the U.S. stuff any day---thats just the way I roll!!!

---But you do need to have some German stuff for the G.I.s to wooop up on!!!!

---RED---

Post by **aferguson** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:00 am

you can expect to pay a tidy sum for the churchill....their Churchill Bridgelayer conversion in 1/35 is US $ 150.

luftpanzer · Post by **luftpanzer** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:59 am

In my experiance as a dealor. I can tell you that German figures and vehicles always sell better. For example the FOV 1/32 716th German Infanrty have gone through 6 cases already and I still have 2 boxes of 101st Airborne left out of my Original 1st order of FOV. German armor no matter what it is will out sell Sherman tanks.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:07 am

Threetoughtrucks, thanks for the info. I had no idea there were so many variants. Was the one with the curved armor the earlier version? I always see this version in D-Day pictures.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:18 am

you can have a Churchill bridge layer conversion kit here http://www.resicast.com/

This is top quality resin kit.

Take care.

phil

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:07 am

ToyK:

I believe you are talking about the M4 and M4A1 with the welded front and the 60 degree glacis.

Later versions had cast armor fronts and 47 degree glacis plates. All front armor was rounded, designers thought would stop enemy shells. It worked but the armor was just not thick enough to be protection from the German shells. It worked great against the Japanese little "girly man" tanks. Even our Stuarts stood up against the Japanese armor.

In stand up fights against Tigers and Panthers, it was standard procedure not to even start a fight without a four to one ratio against the Germans and then they expected a minimum of two Shermans to be knocked out before the German was destroyed. It was not unusual for even three Shermans to be destroyed before at least one got around behind the German for a "rear end" hit to destroy.

Our tankers had brass "you know whats". Just unbelievable what those guys went through, truely the great generation.

TTT

steelbonnet · Post by **steelbonnet** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:55 am

A universal carrier would be very nice

Also I`d say a Humber Tractor with a 6 pounder cannon.

Parachute Regt Recce jeeps are another great one. After all like the SAS jeeps they are unique to British use.

Also talking SAS,well how about a SAS/LRDG Pair: Jeep & Chevy???

Tank wise I must admit a Churchill & Crusader would be very nice & maybe if we`re really lucky a 3rd being the Matilda

Just doing the above you can cover Africa & Europe nice & easy

Though to go with PTO Merrils Marauders I`d say XD have to make General Wingate & some of his men too

I`m just hoping we do see something British (Armour & Figure wise) pref in Modern & WWII,though I`d also be happy if it`s only in one of these areas

Ja
Steel Bonnet

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:41 am

The only British built tanks that could stand up to the German monsters was the Comet. It was a Cruiser series and resembled a Cromwell. It had a 77mm gun(basically a cut down 17lb). The armour was a little better then a VC Sherman Firefly. The Comet was a very late war tank. The best British tank didn'r see combat. The Centurian was too late to get into action. Here is a link with some info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_tank

KWR190 · Post by **KWR190** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:42 am

German sells better than the US stuff at WM here.
Kurt

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:45 am

How many Americans do you think died in those cheaply built, less than adequately armored Sherman’s? They did the job they were intended to do but they were not on par with a German Tiger.

For all it's drawbacks, both real and imagined, the Sherman was an effective AFV, especially for it's intended purpose which was infantry support, I believe the official line was something like "A medium tank designed to exploit infantry breakthroughs" or words to that effect.The Sherman was never designed or intended to go one on one with the heavy German tanks, and you don't need to be an expert on armored warfare to understand that it was at a disadvantage when doing so. Even so, we had BooCoo more Shermans than the Germans had heavier tanks, and as the Russians liked to say "quantity has a quality all it's own". In spite of it's detractors the Sherman was still among the more effective tanks of WWII when properly employed. Not trying to add flames to any fires here, just an observation from someone who likes to keep things in perspective. Cheers,

Scott

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:01 am

Studies done after the war indicated that most allied tanks were knocked out by AT guns such as the Pak40 and hand held AT weapons such as the Panzerfaust. Both of these catagories of weapons were just as able to take out a Pershing and even Panthers and Tiger I's. In addition when you are attacking you are going to loose more tanks then the guy that is dug in and concealed. The Sherman did what it was designed to do. For a counter point to the book "Death Traps" you should try to get a hold of "Commanding the Red Army's Shermans" I don't remember the auther's name. He commanded a unit of Lend Lease Shermans in combat. He never complains about the Sherman and often speaks fondly of them.

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:05 am

Reposting a guide to Sherman types:

There are many variations of the Sherman. I have been a fan since I saw a Jumbo Sherman on display as a kid many years ago. A quick and probbaly incomplete guide follows:

M4 Basic Sherman with welded hull 75mm gun and radial engine This is the 21st Century model.
M4 105mm The 105 howitzer version. Used the new 47 degree hull
M4 Hybrid basic Sherman wih a cast hull front and welded rear hull
Used by Marines and UK forces turned them into 17 lb Fireflys
M4A1 same as basic M4 but with a cast hull
M4A1 76mm later cast hull with the large drivers hatches and the T23 turret that mounted the 76mm gun
M4A1E8 76mm as above but with the E8 or Easy Eight suspension . Didn't see WWII combat.
M4A2 Twin GMC Diese powered 75mm . Minor differences in upper rear hull and rear hull doors. Usedby Marines, Commeanwealth forces and the Soviets. Comes in 45 degree front and 47 degree front plate. Not believed to have had wet storage.
M4A2 76mm Diesel with 76mm on the 47 degree hull. Used by Commean wealth forces and Soviets.
M4A2E8 76mm Same as above with easy eight suspension. Commean wealth and Soviet forces.
M4A3 welded hull with newr style 75 mm turret and Ford V8 engine. Original hull was 45 degree but later 47 degree issied. Became the primary version used by U.S. Army. and was also used by U.S. Marines . 47 degrre hull had wet storage.
M4A3E2 Jumbo, welded hull with additional armour added to front and sides. Extra thick casted T23 turret with thicker mantlet. Armed with the 75mm and considered an assualt tank. Many was later upgunned in the field to the 76mm.
M4A3 105mm Howitzer mounted in he newer style 75mm turret. This is the BBI Sherman.
M4A3E8 105mm Howitzer tank with easy eight suspension. Used in Korea by US Army.
M4A3 76mm 47 Degree hull with T23 76mm turret. Used by US from Fall of 1944.
M4A3E8 76mm. 47 degree hull, T23 76mm turret, easy eight suspension. When people think easy eight Sherman this is the one they picture. Issued late Fall of 44, used in Korea.
M4A4 Welded streached hull with 75mm turret. Powered by 5 Chrysler engines connected together refered to as a multibank. Used by Commean wealth forces. The version used to create the 17 lb VC Firefly Sherman.

Not a complete guide, there is alos a M4A6, but hopefully It will help identifing Shermans you come across.

The best source of Sherman information is Hunnicutt's Book "Sherman". They are hard to find and are not cheap anymore.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Which sells, German or Allied stuff

:(

Sherman variants.