BAD TRADER WARNING: EVERYONE PLEASE READ LATEST POST 12/28

Post by **p51** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:31 pm

Great recon!

Well... the e-bay feedback system I thought would at least help on here for people to get an idea of how well that person does transactions... and if that person has ever done one before on here. Otherwise... I'm not sure how to really impliment security that would be greater than that. It's like e-bay and other places like it... you just have to be aware because no matter how many security things are added, there's still a loop hole.

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:37 pm

I unfortunately fell into the trap and have already sent a Winter Tiger and it was delivered UPS and I have confirmation. Perhaps we can group together and press charges.
Todd

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:03 pm

Q,

If you want the other address let me know, I'll pass it on to you!

-Ski

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 6:07 pm

wow.....i think you make 4 people that have been scammed doc todd. This is bad.

As far as the house goes, it may be that the parents are divorced; she got the house but never bothered to switch the telephone listing for security/money saving/laziness reasons.

I'm starting to wonder if this is a different person than the audie murphy dude. He sure behaved and spoke in emails the same way. Maybe he was living with dad before and now is using mom's address to scam?

FETCO · Post by **FETCO** » Sat Dec 11, 2004 7:43 pm

Let me see, from 4:53 pm on Fri to date and time of this post Sat.
you have intel with names of record, Phone number, eyes on recon of the suspect scammers address and location, even got a look in the window. Now I know there is more intell that your not putting out on the board. If I were the person in question I would be getting a little paranoid . They know who I'm, They know where I live, I can't believe they have been watching me. What will they do next??

This is the best way to fight back EXPOSURE ( to make vulnerable)
Look, everyone of us has had a bad deal at one time or other. No matter what you do it will happen. Most of us will shut up about it and just keep a better watch on our trades. I'm sure this guy knows that's what most of his victims do. So by posting a notice of a scammer working the board you have already saved some others from getting hit.
Yes, follow it up with the USPS, UPS, PayPal, Ebay, the Email servers or others they work through. These guys work the internet like termites and will make you nuts if you don't. Everyone on the board tonight is thinking about their next trade, soon you won't trade cause everyone will want their stuff first.. The % is low on scammers
but the damage they do in trust is worse. I have traded with thousands of folks over the years, some on this very board without a problem. But I've had bad deals. Do I still trade ? You bet ! I won't let bottom feeders in the gene pool of life run me off. I like doing this to much. I like the people who I deal with. Just remember, If it smells like a turd don't taste it.
If you do, wash your mouth out and eat a breath mint and tell others not to do it.. As a last thought this is better than watching CSI on the tube, you guys are really something and prove just how great the members are. Tom C (fetco)

momaw nadon · Post by **momaw nadon** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 12:31 am

I hate to here that this person has hit again with many targets. I know how all feel and wish bad deals like this could be stopped before it happens. I have only had good dealings on this board as well as GPs, but had some bad deals from others.

I wanted to add a point to Threetoughtrucks post. I had a deal on ebay with a user that first tried to rip me off with shipping charges of over $35 for items that should have only cost around $12. After going around and around we agreed on $15 for shipping. Then he turned around and sent the items media mail for $4.30. I let that go, but when the items that he sent were not what I won and one didn't work I left negative feedback of the truth. I only stated what he did. He retaliated and left me the same which I tried to get removed through ebay and gave up after about a month of going around and around with them. They said they couldn't do anything because they didn't see anything wrong with the feedback. The seller now changed his listings and charges, so the feedback I left help, but just not me. The system is to blame for this happening. Their system doesn't work that great. The deal made me change the way I use ebay, so I understand that this stuff will change the way we all trade on this board.

As for that type of system, it would work better if before the negative feedback is left, that it was backed with evidence. That way negative feedback can't be left just because they gave you negative feedback. Maybe only done through the Moderators, then they can see if the cause is just for the feedback.

Another thing could be if you could add like the feedback forum under the persons user name like in the view profile. That way if you clicked their user name you could view the feedback left by everyone that traded with them. I understand it is hard to go through all the posts to find the one you’re looking for, so that is an idea. It's just some things to think about when working the details out.

Again I think if you don't have feedback on the board you should offer to send first. That way the one that has feedback can have some backup. Or you should ask for some sort of references to see what type of trader they are. I like to know that they have multiple dealings and with some of the ones I have done deals with. If we can all keep in mind that without this trade forum we wouldn’t have the chance to get everything we want form this hobby. We are all in this together and help like this helps all that trade here. Knowledge is power!

momaw nadon

MARKSMAN1 · Post by **MARKSMAN1** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:51 am

The person who signed the return signature card for the merchandise, the green card, was Arthur L. Coy, he signed and printed his name on the card. I am going to wait until wednesday to see if I get my stuff back, I am not holding my breath, I will let you guys know. He said that he was going to send it back and have me sign for it, so I could not prosecute him and have my stuff back. I told him again tonight, that it better be here by wednesday and not a day later.

Great work Q on the recon, I have to say we have a great bunch of guys here looking out for one another, and if we can't get this resolved soon, I am all for taking a couple of days off work for a little vacation to Ohio.

What is weird is that this guy is saying he will pay us, but he does not have any money, but he will pay us when he can. I say screw that, just send the stuff back, don't send the money, just send the stuff back. He said everyone else was being patient with him, he asked me why I was strong-arming him, why I wanted to prosecute him over a box of army men, and why I was threatening him over his 12 year old son,.....riiiight.
I told him, that I am making no threats, that I believe him and not his son is the scam artist, and that if I did not have my stuff back by the deadline, that life was going to get ugly for him.

MARKSMAN1 · Post by **MARKSMAN1** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:55 am

Oh, I forgot to mention, that I got several emails from members here that I have traded with in the past, telling me how sorry they were that I got scammed and offering assistance, I want to thank those gentlemen, like I said ....a bunch of great guys here. Marksman1

Zartan · Post by **Zartan** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 2:37 am

You can add a 5th to the list now. I believe I was scammed by a Lonnie C. Woods out of Richmond IN. I was able to send a my side of the trade (winter sherman) out for free through work otherwise I wouldn't have sent it until I received his item. When I received an email from him asking me which sherman I sent I knew it seemed fishy but I had already sent the sheman out. His info is as follows:

Said he went by lightbrigade on groundpounders

His address:

Lonnie C. Woods
211 N.W. H Street
Richmond, Indiana
47374

email: lightbrigade666@yahoo.com

On a side note, Im throwing the towel in on 1/18 scale (NOT because of this trade). Im in Canada and there is nothing in the Walmarts up here and I'm sick and tired of going across the border to find nothing. I also lost my PO box in the states and shipping into Canada is too much for me. I will however be sticking with 21st and FOV 1/32 scale. Much cheaper to ship if I have to as a local hobby shop carries them. All of my 21st 1/18 and some of my 1/6 will be auctioned off on ebay. Not quite the place to post this but I had to let it out. Graeme

Post by **p51** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 4:43 am

Just an FYI in case it hasn't been mentioned that this guy was also using the p51mustangpilot@hotmail address

That's my e-mail! The only way he could be 'using' it is if he was sending mail from the boards directly. I have these boards set up so they send via p51mustang@hotmail.com (makes it so that if someone doesn't have a e-mail program or is on another computer that they can't put one on... it's no problem e-mailing people.).

As per the feedback system... I'll have to reply tomorrow about that. I'm dead tired and it's nearly 4am here

Time for some sleep.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 7:40 am

This gets more and more interesting as it goes! When Audie Murphy hit last time on the old board, he used this address when I almost sent him a P-40:

Jerry Napier
312 North 16th Street
Richmond, Indiana 47374

Now I don't know what the hell is going on. Did he have friends that recieved goods for him not knowing what was up?? This guy's good. Maybe the current address isn't his after all and like somebody mentioned before, that this person might not know what is going on. This is getting bigger by the day, unfortunately..........

-Ski

Zartan · Post by **Zartan** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:51 am

Well, if anyone makes a case against this guy I will be happy to supply my info. I still have the shipping receipt and the item was successfully delivered. Graeme

DocTodd · Post by **DocTodd** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:40 pm

Let me know if there is a way to group our efforts and bring charges against him. It seems if the group is large enough and the total dollar amount is large enough it might be more significant and beome a federal issue or at least garner enough attention of authorities to get something done. Contact me if you think we can do this and it would help.
Todd

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 1:50 pm

Hello,

Has anyone made an attempt to call this person and speak to him live over the phone? Secondly, you might want to consider contacting the local police precinct/ sheriff's office that operates within this character's zip code. You can easily get this info over the phone through your operator. They might be willing to pay him a visit and discuss the situation mano-a-mano. Mail fraud across state lines is a federal crime punishable by fine and possible jail time. He might be willing to send everything back if he's faced with these charges.

Finally, even though he may want to make restitution by check I'd be wary. There's a good chance he'll bounce the check if he's a corrupt individual. I'd settle for nothing less than a bank check or money order. Anyway, just my two cents.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

ParatrooperCarbine · Post by **ParatrooperCarbine** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:27 pm

I sent deltastrykeforce 10 paratroopers and 2 XD building sets. I just got the following email:

Robert,
I am not the one you made the trade with, you made it
with my 12 year old son. I am now monitoring his
e-mail due to numerous misunderstandings he has had
with people from a chat room where you are obviously
from as well. What did you send and what were you
supposed to receive? Get back with me asap so I can
begin to sort all of this out.
james wayne

I responded, and he sent this:

Robert,
What would be the dollar amt value of what you sent?
You will be reimbursed for your items. Also, please
send me your full name and address.

Does anyone still have the name and address for the stuff they sent him? I need it to sort through my reciepts to find the right tracking number.

My email address is RobertR74@aol.com.

Robert

ParatrooperCarbine · Post by **ParatrooperCarbine** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 8:36 pm

It is ok, I found the name and address after all and was able to track my package and find, of course, that it had been delivered.

From an online search:

Coy, Arthur
854 Lakengren Dr
Eaton, OH 45320
(937) 472-3343

Thanks,
Robert

ParatrooperCarbine · Post by **ParatrooperCarbine** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:40 pm

Just keeping everyone posted on how it unfolds:

I asked him to send back my items. His response:

I can't even begin to identify
what is what or who' is who's to send anything back,
or believe me, I would send it back, also, my son
isn't speaking to me right now -that of which I really
don't mind right now. The packages that I found which
had not been opened are being sent back in the boxes
they came in, and the stuff that he did open has been
taken from him and all of it is being dropped into a
Salvation Army drop box.

MARKSMAN1 · Post by **MARKSMAN1** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 10:31 pm

He emailed me tonight and said that he was shipping my stuff back tomorrow morning and that I would have to sign for it, I am not holding my breath. It's funny that this guy has the same mannerisms in his emails as his 12 year old son. Marksman1

bravo5 · Post by **bravo5** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:00 pm

Here is the latest e-mail reply I have received:
No, it shouldn't have happened, because first of all,
no one should have been having any kind of on line
business dealings with an autistic 12 year old boy. I
have tried to be as civil as I can throughout this,
trying to make good on it, and all I have gotten is
kicked in the face time and time again from all of
you! And no again, he did not know that what he was
doing was wrong. You all keep telling me that I am
the one you had made the deals with, well, you're
wrong! Very WRONG! I do not care if any of you keep
saying that I am the guilty one or not, it is being
stressed so as wishful thinking because they know they
shouldn't have been making deals of any kind via the
internet with a 12 year old boy. Adults should not
engage in any kind of business or dealings of any kind
with a child! LET'S SEE WHAT KIND OF EXAMPLE THAT SETS
IN COURT! All chat rooms, web sites etc should have
age and identity verifications, especially one where
you all trade and buy things from each other. I'm
sure that somewhere there is a law against having such
a web site. If someone is going to conduct/run a web
site where possessions and money change hands, then
some type of age and/or identity verification should
be implemented. That would have prevented all of
this.

Just doesn't want to admit he's wrong does he?

Post by **p51** » Sun Dec 12, 2004 11:46 pm

All chat rooms, web sites etc should have
age and identity verifications, especially one where
you all trade and buy things from each other. I'm
sure that somewhere there is a law against having such
a web site. If someone is going to conduct/run a web
site where possessions and money change hands, then
some type of age and/or identity verification should
be implemented. That would have prevented all of
this.

Yeah... I'd like to see a website that can do that and not be bypassed. You can lie about your age anywhere. The only other alternative is to ask for Credit Card Numbers to verify you're and adult... but that's for pay sites and the total opposite that this board isand I'll never do something like that.
In short... since I think you can read this whoever your name is... AGE VERIFICATION IS NOT JUST SOME SIMPLE THING. I believe the courts would find it interesting that your son was getting all these toys... and yet you didn't ever ask how he got them. And in courts... I believe the parent would be held responcible in this case... not the child.
I just love how he passes the blame over to me for 'failing' to have age verification which doesn't exist for forums. And I love how he continually calls the MESSAGE BOARDS chat rooms.
And... if his son has 'autisim' as he says... he must have known he was doing wrong scamming people. He had to have the knowledge to do what he was doing and be coy about it. He had the knowledge of using excuses 'Bank Account problems' etc. And he signed for all the items? Hmmm. I think this is all a last ditch effort to stall for time so we all 'forget' and say it's not worth it IMO.

To all those people who were scammed... On behalf of everything these boards stand for in the honor system of good trading... I want to apologize to you all for what's happened. I'll do whatever I can to prevent this in the future... and I'm always open to suggestions on ways that are within my power to do. I wish there was a way I could just easily prevent this from ever happening, but unfortunatly it's hard to do in this day and age where scamming is a profitable business.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 12:19 am

Thanks P-51. You are trying very hard to rectify this situation and I hope to eventually hear of the fruits of this. It saddens me that the reputation of the trader forum, and indeed this board, has been soiled. As everyone has noted, there is something fishy about the whole thing. The postings by the said individual, while some were a little odd, did not necessairly strike me as coming from someone who has mental disorder. Psychology class was a while back, however, I know people who have had this disorder (even a professor!) and in the cases I saw, it didn't seem to prevent the person from knowing right from wrong, or whether or not they were recieving packages... Here's a link to a site that displays the common symptoms:

http://mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=512

If the case of this kid is truly severe, as the parent would have us believe, then it would mean that the parent had to undoubtedly have a hand in the computer stuff - and would have been making the trade deals. I agree, this does seem like a "last ditch effort" and this person is certainly trying to ruffle our feathers as much as we have theirs. Those who are prosecuting for mail fraud, etc. must stick with the process as I think there is more to this than meets the eye...

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 13, 2004 6:00 am

I totally agree Tman. I suspect this is/has gone on on several message boards and the good are being resold somehow....quite possibly on Ebay.

The parent(s) are 100% responsible in a case like this, anyway. If the son is so severly mentally challenged, as the 'father' claims then why in the world does he have unsupervised internet access where he can do tons of harm? Normal 12 year boys know right from wrong.

And why does the father claim his name is James Wayne when every scrap of information gathered about this residence has the last name 'Coy' associated with it.

This guy is squirming like crazy...for all we know he has fifty other people from other message boards after him as well...

Small Scale Military Headquarters

BAD TRADER WARNING: EVERYONE PLEASE READ LATEST POST 12/28

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I was taken in by him too! Need his address again.

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