POST ALL AVENGER FINDS AND DISCUSSION HERE!

[JimBob55]

From what I can tell, both the Pacific tri-color and later all-sea blue paint schemes appeared on Avengers in 1945. Sometimes even within the same unit. Here are a couple of profiles from Osprey's book about Avenger units:



As the profiles show, here are two TBM's from the same time frame showing the variation of color schemes.

I also believe that most (if not all) of the shipboard Corsairs were in the all-blue scheme. The earlier tri-color Corsairs were from land-based units, although I can't find any reference to the color change time. The 21C Bunker Hill Corsair, even though in all blue, is a perfect match for the tri-color 21C Bunker Hill Avenger; that is exactly how they would've appeared on board the CV-17 in February 1945.

(What is the S1 Corsair? I can't recall.)

JimBob

[aferguson]

It's most probable that tri-colour and all blue avengers served together. I believe the all blue camo scheme came into being around mid '44. Any avengers still in tri-colour were not going to be repainted but new avengers replacing lost aircraft would be in all blue.

I don't know for certain that all shipboard corsairs were overall dark blue even though the green light for putting corsairs on carriers came in the fall of '44, a few months after the change over to the all blue camo; i would think that some of the land based navy units would have been moved to equip the carriers and surely some of them would still bare the tri-colour scheme. It is possible i guess that only new units equipped the carriers and thus would sport all blue corsairs.

I'm sure someone on the board will know the scoop..

[JimBob55]

Check out this photo. It shows the Bunker Hill flight deck during the Japanese home island raids of February 1945 (signified by the yellow cowl rings). The Corsairs (and Hellcats) are in all blue. I'm not sure if you can make it out, but the Avengers still have the tri-color paint scheme.




JimBob

[KAGNEW]

i don't think many land based Corsairs went to carriers because they changed the spring/shock setting in the landing gear struts on Corsairs sent to carriers to help stop the bouncing on landing

[aferguson]

interesting....so they may have all been new build corsairs that went to the carriers and thus they would all be dark blue overall..

[Sabrefan]

Here are the variants of the TBF/TBM Avengers:

Grumman TBFs
XTBF-1: two prototypes, R-2600-8 engine

TBF-1: initial production version similar to second prototype; total 2,291 excluding prototypes but including -1Bs and -1Cs

TBF-1B: variant for British with minor differences: initially designated Tarpon TR.Mk 1; 395 conversions

TBF-1C; as TBF-1 but with maximum fuel capacity increased from 335 to 726 gallons with two wing drop tanks and bomb bay ferry tank, two 0.5 inch wing guns

TBF-1CP: conversions of TBF-1C with trimetrogen reconnaissance cameras in fan to give wide coverage

TBF-1D: conversion with RT-5/ASP-4 radar in wing pod; TBF-1CD similar conversion of TBF-1C

TBF-1E: conversion with special radar and additional avionics

TBF-1J: conversion for Artic operations, including a high-capacity cockpit heater, bad weather avionics and lighting, and special ice protection

TBF-1L: searchlight on retractable mount extending from bomb bay. Quickly dropped as the searchlight made the plane a fine target for submarine anti-aircraft fire

TBF-1P: TBF-1 conversion, as TBF-1CP

XTBF-2: conversion of TBF-1 No. 00393 with 1,900hp XR-2600-10 engine

XTBF-3: two TBF-1s completed with engine installation of TBF-3

General Motors TBMs

TBM-1: similar to TBF-1: total 550

TBM-2 similar to TBF-1C: total 2,336

TBM-1D/E/J/P: similar to corresponding TBFs

TBM-2: conversion of TBM-1 No. 24580 with XR-2600-10 engine

XTBM-3: conversion of four TBM-1Cs with R2600-20

TBM-3: major production model with R-2600-20 engine and outer wing drop tanks or rockets: total 4,657

TBM-3D: conversion with APS-4 radar on right

TBM-3E: conversions with strengthened structure and RT-5/APS-4 radar in pod under right wing

TBM-3E2: updated TBM-3E with extra avionics

TBM-3H: conversions with surface-search radar

TBM-3J: conversions as TBF-1J

TBM-3L: conversions as TBF-1L

TBM-3P: photo-reconnaissance conversions, differing from TBF-1P

TBM-3U: conversions for utility and target towing

XTBM-4: three new-build aircraft with redesigned wing and different fold system for re-stressed to 5g maneuvers, production of 2,141 TBM-4 cancelled at VJ-Day

Post War Variants

TBM-3M: conversions for missile launching

TBM-3M2: updates with extra equipment

TBM -3N: conversions (1945/46) for special night attack missions

TBM-3Q: various rebuilds for post-war ECM and EW research and combat duty with prominent additions on belly, cockpit,fin and in some cases wings for reception and/or jamming

TBM-3R: conversions for seven passenger or cargo transport in at least threee configurations, all without guns and with door on right

TBM-3S: major post-war conversion program for ASW strike, most being further updated as TBM-3S2 with TBM-3E2 avionics

TBM-3W: major post-war conversion program for AEW(radar picket) duty with APS-20 radar, no armament and extra fins, most updated as TBM-3W2 with upgraded displays for two rear operators and other changes

British Designations

Avenger MK-1: TBF-1B total 402

Avenger MK-2: TBM-1; total 334

Avenger MK-3: TBM-3; total 222

Avenger AS.Mk4 : post war TBM-3S total 100

[tmanthegreat]

Think 21c will eventually do them all

[markecho]

....um er a simple yes or no would have sufficed...

Heh! Just kidding. Thanks everyone for the great info. I would not have know this was the paint scheme that was to match the S1 Corsair.

I had a feeling it could have been..but the experts helped me confirm this.

Thanks again guys!

[JimBob55]

Interesting historical tidbit about the Bunker Hill aircraft... In April of 1945, VT-84 TBM's, along with other air groups, lead the attack which sank the battleship Yamato. CDR Hedrick, in his Corsair, was overall mission leader of the 300-plane strike on the Yamato and its task force.

Another significant action with Avengers was the battle of Samar in October 1944 involving the "Taffy" groups of escort carriers. Avengers and Wildcats, armed for anti-sub action or with nothing at all, harrassed the Japanese ships who where attacking the escort carriers. Also about the same time, other TBM's helped sink the Zuikaku, the last surviving aircraft carrier from the Pearl Harbor attack. Thus the 'Avenger' lived up to its name.

JimBob

more info on the Battle of Samar:
http://www.bosamar.com/

[flpickupman]

I stumbled across what looks like a pretty good pre-order price at toysnswords.com. $65 if you go the Priority Mail route. $61 with UPS Ground.

[Black_Dragon_One]

I thought toysandsword went BR. but it could be another company....

[flpickupman]

Nope, not them. Had email correspondence with them last week, and a friend of mine just ordered the 1/18 Tropical 109 for my b-day.

http://www.toysnswords.com/

[mikeg]

Are they on the trucks heading to walmart yet, or with the latest pictures are we teased to wait another couple of years before getting antsy again?

[Moth]

What new pictures?

Badcat says Late May for the Atlantic "Pregnant Turkey"

[Teamski]

I stumbled across what looks like a pretty good pre-order price at toysnswords.com. $65 if you go the Priority Mail route. $61 with UPS Ground.

Sweet! Thanks for the heads up! I went ahead and ordered a pair of Atlantics from them. They are great to work with. Robert is a great guy. I got my F-18s and F-16s from him with no problems long ago....

Great, now I won't have to go searching Walmart again for another wave not to show..... It sure sux that their distro plan blows.

-Ski

[JOC]

Great info on another source for XD.

[vulgarvulture]

I'm hoping there will be a large volume of Avengers distributed evenly through W-M. I still recall with fond memories the time I spotted 16 Spitfires at one W-M. Had their own display stacked on the floor in between isles. Oh, the days of old!

Distribution has been sparse in the West recently. Maybe the Atlantic Avenger can break the dry spell.

[Jericoeagle1]

Well that would certainly fit into the Walmart policy. Lets distribute Atlantic Schemes to the Pacific Coast. That will really drive them nuts.

[JimBob55]

...and the Pacific version to the Atlantic coast!

JimBob

[hotrodrock]

Holy mackeral! If I'm looking at it correctly, the toysnswords Atlantic Avenger is $20 less than BadCats. Thats a heck of a big difference.

[flpickupman]

More like $10. BadCat's is about $72 shipped. Still, that's not a bad little discount.

I'd have ordered from Toysnswords myself if I hadn't already put one in with Bad Cat. It's not enough of a difference in my mind to cancel with them.

[hotrodrock]

The BadCat site I'm looking at shows the Atlantic Avenger at $69.95 with $8 shipping for a total of $77.95. The toysnswords shows it at $49.95 with $7 shipping for a total of $56.95. Thats $20 difference.

[flpickupman]

Did you go all the way to the page where you would click "Submit Order"?

This is what I get with 2-3 day USPS shipping. ($7.99)

SKU Product Name Qty Options Comment Unit Price Total Price

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"'NEW" .21st CENTURY TOYS XD AVENGER TBM "ATLANTIC"
1
$ 49.99 $ 49.99
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal $ 49.99
Taxes $ 0.00
Shipping $ 14.98
Shipping Taxes $ 0.00
Shipping Subtotal $ 14.98

Total $ 64.97


And with UPS Ground ($3.99) I get this..

SKU Product Name Qty Options Comment Unit Price Total Price

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"'NEW" .21st CENTURY TOYS XD AVENGER TBM "ATLANTIC"
1
$ 49.99 $ 49.99
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal $ 49.99
Taxes $ 0.00
Shipping $ 10.98
Shipping Taxes $ 0.00
Shipping Subtotal $ 10.98

Total $ 60.97


The 109 my friend ordered was also assessed a $7.00 handling fee.

Is this what you encountered? Or is it just us here in Flordia getting hosed?

[hotrodrock]

Started the process of checking it, but I haven't ordered from them so I would have had to put in shipping and billing address and got a password and all that crap. So I didn't get to check on the bottom line. But acccording to your info, with UPS ground shipping, doesn't it still come out to about $17 difference. Still a pretty big difference. I have never bought from either so have no favoritism towards either one. Always seemed odd to me that one dealers "special" price would still be $20 more than another dealers. Don't like trickey dealers though who have charges that you might not see until the very end of checking out, such as "handling charges". I can fully understand dealers charging more for "exclusives". That makes sense.

[flpickupman]

You are definitely right as far as where the price stands now. When the pre order was initially offered, Bad Cat's price was $65 plus $8 shipping. So that accounts for the difference in price. Teamski gives Toysnswords a good review, so I'd suggest doing business with them. Especially since the savings is now greater.