21C Marineflieger F-104G Special Edition

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:21 am

I recently picked up a 1/18th 21C Marineflieger F-104G Starfighter "Special Edition" at my local Walmart store, and I was wondering what is "special" about it?? I seem to recall reading a post here somewhere that said these aircraft made their debut at a modeling or trade show recently or something like that, and are now appearing sporadically on the shelves at some East coast Walmart's. My local store had two on the shelf recently, and it looked very cool so I bought one, but again my question would be what (if anything) makes the special edition "special", and assuming that my local WM store has not sold the other example they had, should I grab it while I can?? Any information is appreciated.

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:43 am

The awesome box art is what makes it special. It is a slightly different tool than the US version (I think?), but that likely will not be unique to this version, while the box art will be.

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:46 am

The only notable difference I've seen is that the German 104 has a refueling probe. Otherwise, they appear to be identical.

Edit: They all seem to have the refueling probe. That's what I get for using paint masters for comparison.

Okay, I'd say there is no difference between any of the 104s beyond paint. It seems as if the special edition tag is equivalent to the ones they use for the 32x aircraft.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:00 am

The main difference between the USAF and all of the "export versions" of the F-104 is the vertical stab. The foreign Starfighters have a larger rudder, and 21st Century toys got this feature correct. Also notice the main gear wheels. They are larger on the German F-104. That is because the German version was heavier due to its role in ground attack, and it would be lifting heavier loads. You will also notice a buldge in the main gear doors on both the USAF and the German version. This buldge should only be on the German version as it was put there to make room for the larger wheels while they were retracted.

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:07 am

So you're talking about the control surface itself correct? Not the whole stabilizer? As I look at photos of both, I definitely see the difference between the control surfaces.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:02 am

Yes I am talking about the control surface.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:05 am

flpickupman wrote:The only notable difference I've seen is that the German 104 has a refueling probe. Otherwise, they appear to be identical.

Edit: They all seem to have the refueling probe. That's what I get for using paint masters for comparison.

The US 104 has a refueling probe?? Where? I never noticed one on mine...

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:20 am

While none of the paint masters have the probe, I located this photo from an Ebay auction that appears to be a 104 assembled out of the box. My German 104 has the same probe, and it attaches on the left side of the fuselage via 3 pegs. Look to see if you have any holes beneath the cockpit area of your aircraft.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:23 am

The German F-104 would not use the refueling probe.

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:29 am

Okay, but why did 21st include it when they went to all the trouble of having the correct rudder? Wouldn't it be easier to delete it and fill the attachment holes with something like those little plastic plugs they use for screw holes?

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:35 am

I don't know why 21st Century included the refueling probe with the German Starfighter. I can imagine it is due to costs. It would require production changes to get rid of the holes in the fuse, so they just left it as it is. I fogot to mention one more difference between the USAF F-104s and the foreign versions. On the wingtip tanks the horizontal fins should be the same length on the USAF version. The foreign versions had a longer inner fin, and this is how 21st Century modeled it. The wing tank is correct for the German Starfighter, but not the USAF version. This would be an easy fix, just modify the inner fin on the tank to be exactly like the outer one.

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:38 am

Interesting. Looks like a compromise of inaccuracies all the way around. lol

Thanks for all the info. I've definitely learned something new today.

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:02 am

i think it's very commendable that 21c made the tail and wheel changes on the german starfighter. Remember this is a $40 toy not an expensive custom model. Those changes they made are above and beyond, in my opinion.

Filling the little fuselage holes where the refueling probe goes would not be at all easy, you'd either have to retool the fuselage and take them out or make little tiny plugs and have someone at the factory insert them but only on the german plane and not get mixed up and insert them on the US version. Either way, not worth the effort and expense.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:12 am

I agree it is really neat that 21st Century made the wheel and rudder changes for the German Starfighter. They did a great job on the F-104 models. I am really looking forward to getting the Southeast Asia "Smoke 2" version. I think the F-104 looks great in camo paint.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:41 am

I was a inflight refueling specialist when I was in the Air Force during the eighties. The German 104's did have the probe but at that time they could swing out for refueling and then lay flush with the fuselage for the rest of the flight. I still have a manual showing how to "make contact" with them.

EDIT: Sorry I was mixing memories there, the refueling probe was removable and could be bolted on or off depending on the mission.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:13 am

Yes, the F-104 refueling probe was removable, it did not swing out.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:37 am

I just got a German F-104 last week after I discovered one in a small local hobbyshop. They have not yet made it to the Wal Marts in my area. The owner sold it to me for $50, which, while not the Wal Mart price, was still pretty decent considering what they go for at small retailers and on ebay. It was in a "Special Edition" box; and the retailer had gotten the plane at a modeling show.

Were the ones found at Wal Marts in the east in the special boxes as well, or in the standard 21c F-104 box?

I really like the scheme and the fact that 21c introduced the small differences in the rudder and the wheels to the model. It is a rather unique paintscheme to do, considering that its a German jet and the detailing with the US & German stenciling is incredible!

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:45 am

Tman, The planes at Wallyworld are all in the standard box..

The "special edition" box is just that and only available in limited quantities..

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:52 am

Cool! At least my box isn't run-of-the-mill, even though the plane may now be.

flpickupman · Post by **flpickupman** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:56 am

So what's the difference between the special edition box and the regular one? Regular green versus nice box art and everything? Because if that's the case, every German F-104 I've seen has the nice box art and such. No green box like the US version.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:23 pm

I can answer the question about "Special Edition" line.

The Special Edition line was created and named to denote a particular aircraft paint scheme and or historical significance that makes the aircraft stand out.

The Value added (as mentioned by digger) is that the box art is specifically designed to fit with that one paint scheme. The Box art also is completed with specific / historic details about that aircraft. Also Often times the "Special Edition" airplanes are run in shorter quantity.

Many Special Editions can only be found or purchased through On-Line and not mass retail. (look at the Pudgy V, Gunther Rall)
Wal-Mart has shown some interest with the SE line and thus they carry soem from time to time. The models are all the same, they ship with the same parts. It is simply seen as a way to offer fans a little something more of interest and historical value for certain products.

No big deal... I personally really like that 21st will take the time and investment to add these into the mix. More SE planes are in the works for the future.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:26 pm

Also...

FYI Roy at 21st asked that I send along this little tid bit about the Starfighters. I thought you guys might like to know a little more about the design decisions and research of the products developed by 21st.

From Roy Sutherland -21st Century Toys-

The differences between the F-104C and the so-called Super Starfighter F-104G are many, but the major differences that matter to the collector have been addressed by 21st Century Toys in our family of Starfighters. The empennage (tail unit) is enlarged on the export G model. The fin and rudder were made larger to increase controllability in flight at the lower levels this version would be required to operate at. The airframe was strengthened and the load carrying capability was improved. Wider main wheels were fitted to absorb the additional weight. I read with interest the comments about the symmetrical tip tank fins on the C model. While this may have been a feature of some early tanks, I can find no photographic evidence of it, and all photos I have seen of C model Starfighters in operation have the asymmetrical fins on the tanks.

The refueling probe was a feature fitted to the C model 104s, but the probe was retained and could be installed, as Jehrico Eagle correctly pointed out, as dictated by the mission. We decided to give the collector the option of installing the refueling probe on whatever scheme they have. Many will opt not to use it, but they have a choice. The one concession we did make was to go with the Lockheed C-2 upward firing seat. Later G models were fitted with Martin Baker Mk. 7 seats, but the extra tooling would have driven the cost too high. You gotta draw the line somewhere… Remember, these huge airplanes sell for the same price as the 109, which is tiny by comparison.

I think you will agree that the F-104C/G is a spectacular model and a heck of a deal at the price. The S2 Smoke II version is in production now and should be showing up on the shelves in the next few months. I am sure you will like it.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:33 pm

On page 61 of the book F-104 Starfighter in detail and scale you will find a picture and description of how the USAF Starfighters had wing tip tanks that were the same size on each side of the tank.

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:35 pm

Sorry I typed that to fast. The wing tip tank fins were the same size on each side on the USAF F-104 Starfighters.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Apr 19, 2006 4:47 pm

This is from Roy Sutherland:

Hi Paul,

If you study photos of USAF F-104C Starfighters, you will find photos clearly showing them to be fitted with the asymmetrical fin tip tanks. There is a great shot of four C models of the 479th TFW from below on page 3 of the Squadron “In Action”, and again on page 16 and 19. So it seems that either version could be carried, and therefore our tip tanks are not incorrect for this model. I must admit that I was not aware of the symmetrical fin tip tanks, and I thank you for your input.

Also, anyone who reads German will tell you that the stenciling on our Marineflieger is correct. Try finding that information anywhere! It took a lot of digging to get it right.