Disappointed with 1:18 vehicles...

[holensock]

I put a question on the Q & A forum about the new Dodge WC51 and the M3A3 Halftrack and why you can't have the driver fit without really 'prying' him in it-and he still sits above the windshield and why they can't sit in the back of either truck. I was told because of the 'plastic' uniforms and because they'd have to make the figures 'out of scale'. This is where I just don't get it. I buy 1:18 because of the articulation of the figures and being able to set up some neat dioramas...but now I find out that you can't do it with the vehicles...unless you use them like a parking lot with NO riders, drivers, well, you can have drivers if you rip the figures legs off.
I LOVE these two vehicles!! I'd LOVE to see MORE armor!!! But what's the use if you can't have anyone in them? If I wanted just models, I might as well just collect 1:32...
I did buy a PTE Humvee troop carrier with the plastic canvas top. This top you can remove, AND you have no problem SITTING a driver, passanger, AND troops that can actually SIT in the back!! Yeah, these PTE figures and armor LACK the detail, probably NOT in scale-but I can't tell-and probably neither of my friends that may came over and look at it-all I know is that these guys can drive and ride in these vehicles.
I just wish that 21C and bbi could just 'tweak' their armor a bit to make sure that their figures could do what these vehicles were made to intend to do...have soldiers be able to RIDE in them. Until then, I guess I'll just have to live with 1:18 riderless models....

[MG-42]

Have vehicles,...have soldiers. ....Will travel ! ......Yeah,...you would think,...that by introducing a NEW vehicle,..that you would at least be able to use figures in them,..with "no problems".

[digger]

Don't worry, there is so little 1:18 scale armor that you won't be bothered often.
But seriously, if you think about it logistically there is not much you can do. Have you ever ducked into an AFV? You might "turtle" your head to avoid hitting it - these little plastic guys can't do that. Have you ever sat in a cramped space and had to put your knees almost to your chest? Same thing. It's just a reality of plastic. If you want perfect relationship between men and machines then you need to collect 1:1.

Take your bbi tanker and stand him next to your other bbi infantry or paras. Notice he is the runt? There is a reason. Check your P-51 pilot. A bit short isn't he? Again, there is a reason.

As the figures get better so does the articulation and they will fit into more and more places, but imo I rather the vehicles be to scale than have them fit figures like PTE or GiJoe.

I need to defend vehicles because they are a dying breed. Anybody catch Mike's statement that they have no plans for more tanks? That basically leaves us ONE hope for anymore tanks - let's not dissuade them.

[holensock]

My post isn't to dissuade them from building more armor, but maybe have the designers take a look at at least trying to make this stuff to fit the figures in! What good is a GI JOE jeep if you can't fit him in it? I can't help it, I don't want just a 'model'. I want something that I can use! But that's just me. I'm just not happy with 'armor' that looks nice and will just sit on the shelf...again, I can go to 1:32 for that.

[CW4USARMY]

Don't worry, there is so little 1:18 scale armor that you won't be bothered often.

LOL!!!

[holensock]

Maybe bbi won't make any more tanks because their Sherman's not flying off the shelf...for $39.99...I bought one and I LOVE IT!! Had to cringe a bit at dropping over $40 for it, but I bought it. If the price was around $20, I'd have bought more! But I do think price has a bit to do with it. Although if bbi were to come out with a halftrack where the figures actually could sit in it?...I'd pay $39.99 for it too! But as you said, this probably won't happen. These companies would rather compete with each other over aircraft...look at the lead one company could take if they'd produce MORE armor....

[holensock]

Don't worry, there is so little 1:18 scale armor that you won't be bothered often.

LOL!!!

Fine, you must be another guy here with a ceiling full of aircraft

[digger]

Holensock, just so you know - I am with you. Don't let all the AC get you down...we will have our day, and soon...I can feel it.

Let's hope bbi makes more vehicles if not tanks, especially WWII. Their Sherman was worth the $40 imo considering all the detail and extras. Btw, you can get them online for around $30 if you are looking to stock up (I did).

Now, 21st, put a howitzer on that Sherman hull and give me a Priest (even if the figures are cramped.) Put a quad .50 in the back of that US halftrack and give me an M16 (even if it is tight.) ....whatever it takes to get new vehicles out....I can dream can't I?

[holensock]

Yes!! Dream on!! Me too!! I'd LOVE to see that stuff come out!!! I'd STILL BUY IT TOO EVEN WITH THE FRUSTRATIONS!!! I LOVE ARMOR!! And I'm NOT anti-aircraft-my Dad was a side gunner on a B-24 in WWII, but I LOVE ground troops and ANY ARMOR to go with 'em!!!
Thanks too for the tip about the bbi tanks! Stock up I will!! We're gonna half to bug the heck out of bbi to change their mind and produce MORE armor!!! At least a German tank or Howitzer!! And more figures!!!

[KAGNEW]

i'd like to see a 1/18 88mm flak with an Opel blitz towing it and a 1/18 m-16a1 quad 50 cal. half track. the 1/32 guys have it why don't we.

[aferguson]

the only way around the problem, other than making vehicle interiors over scale or the figures under scale, is to offer pre-molded figures that have their clothing scrunched up and are molded in a proper sitting position.....and this isn't gonna make a lot of people happy either because they wont' be of much use except for sitting in their vehicles.

The reason why you can fit your guys in your PTE vehicles is because they are way too big on the inside....and as a result are more toy like. XD/BBI are more for collectors who want authenticity and perhaps some play value. If you are mostly interested in play value there are lots of other lines to satisfy......chap mei, corps, gi joe, PTE etc.

[holensock]

The reason why you can fit your guys in your PTE vehicles is because they are way too big on the inside....and as a result are more toy like. XD/BBI are more for collectors who want authenticity and perhaps some play value. If you are mostly interested in play value there are lots of other lines to satisfy......chap mei, corps, gi joe, PTE etc.[/quote]

So you only buy 1:18 to strike a few poses with the figures, then put them on a shelf just to look at them? Seems sort of a waste to 'articulate' figures if you're not going to 'play' with them, let alone having them fit into the vehicles that were 'made' for them.
Maybe this is why I'm frustrated with 1:18. Is 1:18 for collectors to either keep them in the package, or display them on a shelf, sort of like 1:32? Empty vehicles? Is trying to have figures sit in front and back of the vehicles then set up in dioramas considered 'play value?'
Maybe you're right. I just can't seem to want to spend $39 at WM and $54 at Online stores for 'empty' vehicles.
There's a guy on here who does some fantastic work on 1:18 with weathering it and adding stuff-maybe I should try this on PTE...you know, to give it a less 'toy like' look.

[aferguson]

i display my stuff, not play with it so if i want to put a guy in a vehicle i will modify him (ie cut clothing and pose and glue him) so that he fits well in the vehicle. He'd be a permanent addition to the vehicle at that point. The articulation is good because it allows me to get the figure in sort of the pose i want and then i hack and glue from there.

The appeal of 1/18 for me is not the playability but the large size.

[holensock]

i display my stuff, not play with it so if i want to put a guy in a vehicle i will modify him (ie cut clothing and pose and glue him) so that he fits well in the vehicle. He'd be a permanent addition to the vehicle at that point. The articulation is good because it allows me to get the figure in sort of the pose i want and then i hack and glue from there.

The appeal of 1/18 for me is not the playability but the large size.

That's cool! I may just try this! I may look at all this differently...like keep the XD/bbi stuff for display, and get the PTE stuff for the playability! Thanks for the tip, Aferguson! hmmm...not bad, not bad at all!!

[krieglok]

I picked up the 3/4 ton Dodge and I did manage to fit a driver into the seat. He sits with his eye level right at the upper edge of the windshield with the wiper motor right in his face. You know what? That is just about right for a Dodge truck. When I drive my 3/4 ton, I have to sit there with my neck craned or my spine hunched to get a unobscured view out the front. It is nice to drive with the top off and the windshield down as it opens up a whole new world of vision with these vehicles. They really are not off the mark as far as the vehicle goes. I would guess average height of a WW2 service man was 5' 8" to 5' 10". I imagine the 21st guys are at least 6' like I am. Maybe that is part of the problem...

One suggestion with the 21st Dodge would be to reposition the seat back a bit to get more room for the driver. It should help.

TJ

[luftpanzer]

i'd like to see a 1/18 88mm flak with an Opel blitz towing it and a 1/18 m-16a1 quad 50 cal. half track. the 1/32 guys have it why don't we.

Id rather see an 1/18th 8ton prime mover towing the 88 with a full crew.

[KAGNEW]

i'd go for that also to pull an 88mm, but thats almost to much to ask for

[HardenSteel]

The problem with all this 1/18 scale aircraft is - you quickly run out of room.

My ceiling is full and I can only squeeze a few more in. It looks a bit absurd, but they are up and out of the way. This leaves room only for aircraft with folding wings... on the shelf.

Armour, on the other hand, can happily be stored on a variety of flat surfaces, and some not so flat. You would thing that the manufacturers would take that into consderation.

As for Shermans selling, I have 4 - 21 century and 3 BBI. All I need is some T-28 turrets and I'll be a happy camper. I put up to many lists of armour and ground vehicles to do this again. I would just like them to get serious about producing a theme line of armour - the stuff will sell. How about a theme like, oh say - WWII or the Gulf War!

BTW, if your figures don't fit, just modify the steering wheel angle and length. I usually find it's not correct in the first place. Also, no one will notice a tasfully done conversion. Part of the fun of having it.....

Just a few thoughts.

HD

[holensock]

Good thoughts, Hardensteel. You'd think they could at least keep an open spot in front of the steering wheel and passager side so you could slide thier feet in, and make the seats in the back higher so they could actually sit. I don't know about you, but I don't have any friends who work for the WWII Museum or Pentigon that would come over and look at this on my vehicles and say, "Nope, seats in the back are too high and that small hole for the feet-nope, off scale!! Get this hideous vehicle away from me!! How dare you?!"

[aferguson]

the thing is if it were made that way there'd be lots of people (on this board) complaining that the seat backs are too high and the foot wells too deep........

[KAGNEW]

ain't that the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[holensock]

I guess the bottom line is that it's better to have a piece of riderless, driverless armor, than no armor at all. Unless I rip the figures legs off, cut up their uniforms then glue them to the seats. Ah, the love of a 'collectable'...

[aferguson]

that's the spirit!

[Threetoughtrucks]

Guys, all the comments on fitting drivers in the 21C vehicles please remember 1/1 soldiers in WW2 were smaller and alot of vehicles were sized for small guys.

Tankers (especially drivers and co-drivers) were smaller guys, as were ball turret gunners.

I am 6'1', not big by todays standards but I drove WW2 Jeeps with my knees up against my chest. Same with a half-track, it was very uncomfortable to drive. I tried a Stuart drivers hatch for size and just gave up. My 3/4 Command Car was a little tight but was easy to drive. It wasn't until I got my M-37 that I found real comfort. The Mutt also was comfortable to drive, as long as you didn't roll it. I rolled one onto it's side so that really doesn't count.

I tend to believe the worse for our hobby. I believe 21C is going to steer 1/18 collectors to planes with some knock out aircraft and steer "the dark side" (1/6) collectors to vehicles. 21C has a few black eyes with 1/6 vehicles with the Humvee having black windows and no place for figures and the track problems with the 1/9 Abrams.

All they need is one more tank in 1/6 (like the Panzer III or an M3 Half-track) to be produced on an equal in quality with the 1/6 Stuart and their future is assured for years to come.

I'd love more 1/18 vehicles but I'd be surprised is it happens.

TTT

[MG-42]

"Gott mit uns" ! .....I fear your not right TTT. That's really scarey. Yeah,....a Panzer MkIV or similar,...would encase 1/6 for 21st.,and collectors alike.