My Phone Conversation With Roy Sutherland..

[Morian Miner]

Aferg,

Next time you talk to them, could you find out why they have to be so vague on delivery dates? I'm sure it has to be that if they give a certain date they get inundated with "Are they here yet?Are they here yet?". But it would be nice to know when they actually start shipping stuff to suppliers like Walmart, so we know to start looking.

[20july1944]

I am also astonished at the idea that 21C thinks a Mig-15 will sell better than a Zero.

It is not a romantic design nor is the Korean war a focus of a lot of interest.

If you talk to him again, point out how well the FOV 1/16th King Tiger did at FOUR TIMES the price that 21C could sell one.

[vmf214]

No doubt, also ask him how they feel an F-104 in Japanese livery will sell at all!!

[Quixote511]

This flippin rocks. I am very excited. Now all I need is someone to make decals for a F-86 in my father's livery, "Mama's Mink." And yes, I will need the Mig 15 because the old man needs sombody to shoot down, his ship didn't sport 4.5 red stars because he baked cookies. Haven't we tried to convince 21st that these things sell better with adversaries? I want my mud Marines to have IJA grunts to search and destroy. Just like, Kepford's F4U and Putt Putt Maru need some Zeros to tangle with over the the skies of the man cave. The prospect of more RAF craft has me psyched as well. I think I have been one of the biggest champions of a Typhoon on the boards for a while. I can't remember who posted it, but it was a great idea to have the Typhoon come with a V-1. Actually, I think that would be damn smart. As for the WWII twin comming out, as long as it is not a C-45 Bamboo Bomber, I will be pleased as punch. But who the He!! am I kidding, I would buy a C-45 too. Nice to hear that there will be more support equipment comming. I think we are all going to buy a convoy of Dodges, which makes me wish they would reissue the Halftracks. Anyhow, I think I have ranted on long enough. It is amazing how excited a grown man can get about toys.
Aaron

[aferguson]

I asked about the Japanese F-104. They're excited about all the repaint possibilites with the F-104 since so many airforces used them. They plan to do many, including Japanese airforce. They want to sell at least 2000 units per repaint. They feel they could sell that many in Japan alone.

And before everyone relates this back to the Zero....sales of 2000 units is not enough to justify a new model but it is enough to justify a repaint of an existing model.

[Rogo]

I agree with much of the comments already made. How can 21C NOT produce a ZERO given it's place in history and the fact that it is much more recognized by the general public than some of their other coming releases. Consider the FW190D-9, a much more obscure plane in my opinion. Though I personally like it very much and have the black chevron hanging in the office, how many people would recognize this plane sitting on the Walmart shelves? Not many, which is probably why they are gathering dust at all 5 Walmarts in my locale. I don't understand such the decision to produce the Dora and not the Zero. Give us the Zero 21C... PLEASE!
Maybe 21C could produce a new line call "Adversaries" with a Hellcat and Zero packaged together at an attractive price. I'd take a couple of those!!!

Rogo

[dangaroo]

I think the Zero might sell well if it is marketed under a Pearl Harbor Line, which is very familiar to a lot of people because of the movie. I think 21st will produce the plane very soon and is just bluffing just in case bbi is reading this. It is very logical that if the Japanese figures are a go, then the Zero falls in to place. 21st is known to give us unexpected suprises. Just my two cents.

[tmanthegreat]

Yeah... Like when 21st shows that the aircraft for 2004 are going to be the Spitfire, FW-190, ME-109G, and Avenger on the company website. However, instead of the 109 and Avenger (at this point), we get the P-40, M113, and a plethora of repaints. What ever they do - and we have a series of credible theories for possible course of action - I'm sure it will be cool and will probably blow the past year, with its 7-8 new releases, away!! Start saving your $$

[aferguson]

I emailed Roy yesterday after i talked with him because i forgot to ask him about my most beloved choice for an airplane...the Macchi 202, and this is what he said:

"Strangely, the Macchi 202, with it's beautiful and varied camouflage, is not beyond the scope of possibility. It is a popular model subject around the world. It is on the list of projects being considered... as is the Zero."

I also forgot to mention the upcoming P-51D by 21C....here are his comments on that:

"Also, you might want to tell the guys about our forthcoming P-51D"..."This P-51 is going to set new standards. It is already in test shot form (plastic), so it's release should be in the first quarter of 2005."

His final comments were:

"We DO visit the new site." "...I really do understand their frustration (about the Zero). I will try to keep them happy while trying to stay profitable, and will fit in the Zero when I can."

So there.

Now, who was it that said that if 21st came out with a Macchi they would buy one for me..?

[Jericoeagle1]

Was anything mentioned about the timing of the P-51D now that the BBI P-51 is coming out as well? Obviously they think there is room for both on the market. I'm glad to hear that they visit the site regularly I'll have to keep mentioning the A-10 now just to keep it "visible".

[corpbob]

Yes a Zero would sell very well marketed under "Pearl Harbor Collection" or the like, and they could market the Langley P-40 in the same heading. The general public will buy things they're familiar with, that strike a note with them. And that are affordable and well-represented. An F-104 strikes a cord with who? G.W. Bush? And though I am anxiously awaiting the Panzer Mark IV, do they really think that was the wisest choice when they want volume? How about an Easy Eight Sherman, which would sell better than the M4A3 ever did? And as much as I'm looking forward to the Avenger, I'll guarantee a comparably priced A-10 would outsell it 2-1.

[Morian Miner]

One comment on the Japanese. Until I started collecting the 21C planes, I really didn't know squat about WWII Planes. The only planes I could really pick out from all the others were the bombers, the P51, the Stuka, and the Zero.

Secondly, I have worked for four years with the Japanese. When the program kicked off, there was the usual exchange of gifts. One of the items the Japanese handed out were tie-clips with Zeros on it. If 21C parked their truck outside Mitsubishi's Nagoya or Tokyo factories and offered up Zeros, they'd be gone in a day.

[tko211]

Oh yeah, now we are talkin' a new p-51 from 21st will rock. I had a feeling that they weren't done with this plane and a new one was right around the corner. I am gald I saved my money by not buying the BBI version. I have a feeling in within the next six months we will see a far superior mold to BBI on this one. On another note that makes 6 new models for 2005! -sweet!

[KWR190]

Nothing said about the 1/32 88? I hope one day some one will make it in 1/18.
Kurt

[Quixote511]

Aferg, you got a mind like an elephant. I promise if they ever do come out with one I will make good on my word and have one shipped to the great white north for you.
Aaron

[Threetoughtrucks]

The good news certainly out ways the bad.

The Avenger, an Me-110 and maybe a B-26? I'd be thinking I died and went to heaven.

Add to that a 1:6 R/C Hummer (I'd rather see a Panzer but fully understand the national crave for US stuff now). I have heard 21c is rushing the 1:6 Hummer to be out in time for x-Mass. We'll see, sometimes rushing doesn't end up with a happy ending.....

Very nice report. Tanks alot.

TTT

[Jesse James]

Not focusing on the negative Aferg, it just was a 50/50 of good/bad to me from the discussion you had, but I'm also NOT a plane guy.

The thing is, I don't see the same idea that "armor doesn't sell as well as planes".

For every Sherman I've seen, I've seen P-47's and Helo's galore... P-40's warm the shelves at every Wal-Mart in my neck. I jsut don't see planes being somehow superior. The Tiger's are almost all gone now from my neck, unless a new shipment's come in.

That's not to say planes sell poorly either. Not my intent, but I just think when you don't put a product on the shelf, especially a common and recognized one (Panzer, Sherman, Stuart, etc.), you can't judge the sales of armor through Wal-Mart. The Bradley, Sherman, and the Tiger are all I've seen, and so far only the Sherman (which seemed to reship by itself to RESTOCk shelves that had sold out intitially) is lingering. That could simply be overordering.

At TRU, P-38's, Corsairs, and Stukas always outlasted ANY armor on the shelves besides the Walker, which still sits... Can anyone really say it would've sold though?

I think my gripe is that I simply disagree. 21st doesn't strike me as a company with solid bases. I'm speaking as a business man myself, and one with his own Toy Industry experience. They seem to have some shakey ground, and maybe their information isn't quite right? Anything's possible, but I think a figure/ground vehicle based line with intermediate planes and repaints is more solid of a base for a toy line. Work upwards from figures on.

I understand the Japs are coming, but when? Where? Etail or Retail? Stuff's vague on the figure front, and always has been, and you know as well as I do that skepticism is warranted with 21st, no matter how nice Roy may be. I'm sure he's a great guy, but he (nor his company, who I've pimped at every turn on other toy forums) has earned NOTHING from me as far as "trust" is concerned.

Show me product, show it well distributed, and give me some solid proof that planes sell better than land items, and I'll be more convinced. I have my own views of the "what sells better" thing, and in my opinion it's the CHOICE of item that sells, not the genre the item is clumped in. IE: A spitfire flies off shelves (no pun), as does the Tiger I it seems, but a Dodge Command Car and Walker Bulldog sit on shelves, as does a P-38 or Stuka...

"Limited" items (through intent, or accident) don't act as good judges of item movement either. Dump a ton of the Checkertail P-47 and it sits... Make it "rare" and it moves... Same with the Sherman and anything else.

I just don't see any solid reasoning from them, especially when the one time they had items readily available en masse at a brick & mortar retailer (TRU), the armor seemed to go before the planes, and they had more total # of armor items on the shelves than planes it seems, though that P-38 did get piled high. My eyes saw something different, but that's their feelings on the line.

I felt articulation outperformed action poses in the Star Wars line... it took a couple shy of 10 years, but Hasbro's seemingly agreeing with me now too. To each their own.

I'd like to see 21st with some real shelf space at WM though, distributing the base to any action figure line... The figures. I'd like to hear they're trying for that because it's sorely needed. Again, I just don't agree that the planes (as fun as they are) are how you build the profit to build the line. I don't believe armor does either... Just figures. Ask any other action figure line and they'll say the playsets and vehicles are generally not the showcase items. They're the complements, and their profit margins are siginificantly less. I dunno how 21st could do better with the level of complexity of their vehicles. They gotta be cutting that close.

Anyway, again, not focusing on the negative... I liked what I DID hear on the figures. I like hearing SOMETHING on SOME armor and the licensed figures do kick ass. I'm anxious to get some Platoon guys and I'm not even into Vietnam era items.

Go figure!? haha

I think the licensed things will be good for them. Far more than just dumping a new or repainted plane every whipstich, or a repainted piece of armor cast in metal. Cool, but not an organization building maneuver. Building up the figures through movie licenses IS a good thing though. The army builder sets (hwich I'd like to hear more on) have huge potential too.

21st may be right on planes and I'm completely off base... I just don't see it that way though, and they're a shakey company on what they feel is "right and wrong" in this industry at times, so I do trust my own judgment on this issue to an extent, and just hope they're making good decisions for themselves, even if I disagree.

Can't say I'm crying that they have competition though, because BBI's got itself together a bit more, and I'm happy for that.

[digger]

Just to follow up I think one problem with recent armor sales is that they haven't been in conjunction with figure releases. If the Winter Panther was out when the BoB figures came out, they surely would have sold better. And if they were on the SHELF next to each other, even moreso. Planes you can hang or display fine w/o figures, but with armor it is different.
That said I think they're releasing so much stuff that you will inevitably see what you're longing for JJ - 21st on the shelves like once upon a time.

[Teamski]

Hey guys,

Andrew is right about sales. For each aircraft type, 21st has to move 10,000 aircraft to turn a profit. That is why you see the repaints, usually 5 altogether done for each plane (5x2000). It makes sense to me now..........

Make no bones about it, the Avenger will be the largest plane done so far. It's wingspan will be about an 1" or so longer than the P-38. It's big! From what I am told, it will definately have a seperate torpedo and fully functioning gatefold doors. Thank god for folding wings! It will display beautifully on a desk!

Thanks Andrew for the update! I hope 21st sticks with the BF-110 as the nightfighter scheme with the lichtenstein radar array would be an incredible sight!


-Ski

[Mad Ewok]

The Macchi 202 is Italian right?

If so, maybe we'll see some Italian figures, depending on if they decide to make it?

[aferguson]

The Macchi is Italian, yes. If they make it then we will have Italian fighters, yes.

[donnieboy]

A Ferguson: Thanks for taking the time to pick Roy Sutherland's brains. The intel is greatly appreciated. Your chat with the Yoda of 21st Century Toys gives me reason to live!

[mburduck]

Are there any phone calls with BBI in the future? Just wundrin'!

Mike

[EnemyAce]

Thank you for the sorely needed intel. If you have a chance, could you get a confirmation from Mr. S on the issue of vehicle markings for upcoming releases? In particular german markings such as crosses on tanks and planes - will these continue or will they have to resort to including decals to avoid having the PC Historical Revisionists succeed in their campaign to rewrite Germany out of WWII?

[VMF115]

wow I just found this old thread....its a good read