BCA Customer Service

pastel_monster · Post by **pastel_monster** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:02 am

Hello everyone,

I haven't been on this board long, and I usually just pop in to read the threads. I recently started to purchase several bbi and 21C planes from BCA, as going by the info here they're an excellent source of 1:18 planes. Both my first two purchases were great but when my Zero arrived the previous day I noticed that the cylinders at the back of the cockpit, out of three of them, two had valves which were broken right off. The antennae's paint was also chipped off. When I inquired with BCA about the issues here's the reply I got:

"These seem pretty typical. It is possible to find fault in ANY $50 mass-produced toy aircraft. They are merely imperfections, not defects. In this price range, a defect would be something like a broken prop or a pilot missing an arm. If this plane cost $6000 then its a different story.

At any rate, considering the distance between us and the couple of dollars we profit from each sale, it is not economically feasible for us to send parts thousands of miles nor it can we afford the labor to exchange numerous emails responding to each transaction.

Your business is appreciated but we do not want to continue a relationship where the customer is dissatisfied with their purchase."

I do not understand the sudden frosty attitude given by the BCA staffer who replied to my email?? Isn't this like saying "It's your problem and if you don't like it don't order from us"? I have been polite and civil in all my correspondence with them (and them too until this one), I am not sure how to respond to such an email. Do you guys have any advice?

Regarding the chipped paint, that's repairable with model paint. But are broken parts considered as "merely imperfections"?

I also do not understand the economic reason to not replacing parts...I already have other pre-orders with BCA and they could send it in the same shipping box as the next plane they're shipping out to me. On my part, I would send them back the part(s) being replaced.

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:37 am

pastel monster,

I've been a big BadCat fan and continue to buy from them, but I have had some mixed customer service experiences with them myself - some good, some bad.

The last one was bad, as I had called (in August, I believe) after receiving my bbi Corsair, which had some obvious paint issues, to ask about exchanging it. The rep I spoke with basically told me that this was a problem with a lot of the Corsairs, that they had no stock left for exchanges, and projected an overall attitude of not being interested in helping me.

I was surprised and disappointed at the "customer no-service" reaction I encountered, but decided (perhaps foolishly) to let it go as not worth getting hot and bothered about. I kept the plane and touched it up with some Testor's paint. But it did leave a bad taste in my mouth, and re-motivated me to buy fully-examined pieces from WM or TRU whenever it's convenient.

Sorry about your experience with them! Is anyone else seeing this kind of attitude from BadCat, or is it just that we've caught someone on a bad day?

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:17 am

I personally have never had a bad experience with them. I have always received my items in good condition so the need to inquire about a possible return was never necessary. I will say that from reading your post, I did get an, it’s your problem feel from it. If an item is defective or if the customer is dissatisfied with it for any reason related to its appearance or manufacture, the retailer should offer an exchange or your money back. I realize that some production models have the same problems but that really isn’t the consumer’s problem. If it’s broke it goes back and that’s that.

fredricchio · Post by **fredricchio** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:20 am

Hmm, my Zero also had one set of the tanks at the rear of the cockpit broken off when it arrived, but I just superglued it, wasn't that a big a deal for me. Also one of my Mustangs had some fairly noticable paint chipped off of the propeller tips, but again its something I can probably paint over myself. For little stuff like that I tend not to bother trying to get it replaced.

I can understand BCA's situation, things like this are most likely the manufacturers fault and its probably difficult to get them replaced when they come from overseas, and especially so on exclusive items whose numbers are limited. Its not like they can replace the specific part thats broken, they have to send you a whole new plane.

I also prefer to buy in brick and mortar stores where I can examine them myself, and at least for bbi this isn't much of a problem since TRU always gets stuff in way before BCA does, and they're cheaper, too. With 21st its different since I always find a better selection online, and even when I am able to examine them in store I often find a lot of problems like broken cannons on the FW-190's and muzzles on the Panzer, fingerprints on P-47's, etc etc.

I am a little surprised by that response, though. If a problem like this is typical, as they say, that certainly seems like a defect to me and not an imperfection.

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:38 am

Quite surprised at the responses from BCA. I've bought quite a few items from them and really never had a problem if something was wrong with the item. I can see BCA's point of view though in finding it difficult to reply and resolve every complaint that they receive about the items, but they should be more understanding towards their customers rather than just imply "it's your problem".

paulwong · Post by **paulwong** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:08 am

Hello all,

What is BadCat email address? I can't find it on their web site.

Thanks

zonetoys · Post by **zonetoys** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:47 pm

I hope the Cat with a Bad Attitude is not insight of things to come! As we know there are already so few good 1:18 retailers and with a lack of "Customer Service" it could result in fewer purchases! I know after reading this thread, I will think twice about placing another order with them! But again it boils down to "How Bad Do You Want It?"

Gunner · Post by **Gunner** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:09 pm

There's also the question of availability.

BCA has some things that are exclusive, and others (like the F18) that are HARD to find.

The defects in vehicles that I have ordered have been few and repairable.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:17 pm

Not to defend BadCat here or anything, but I think they got fed up of people demanding return/replacement for the smallest imperfections. Early on, BadCat was pretty nice about replacing stuff if they're broken, but I think people abused them a bit, wanting exchanges because of a paint smudge here or there, or other trivial things. Trivial meaning things people can easily fix themselves with a bottle of paint and glue. If you're missing parts altogether, that's another matter.

Broken parts, bad paint job, finger print smudges, is a norm in the 1/18 world. What 1/18 model/toys that has been released have not have this problem?

If you look at other online retailers like HLJ.com, they would have a notice on some of their pre-built kits that these are "massed-produced" figures and prepare to expect imperfections.

Plastic Spastic · Post by **Plastic Spastic** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:25 pm

Well, at least they didn't say "wait and see".

I've only had one or two dealings with Bad Cat and they went well enough that I woud recommend them, and the situation you describe with your Zeke doesn't sound like they were too much out of line policy-wise, but the thing that bothers me is the somewhat sarcastic tone of that response. Now, I don't know the whole story, you might have sent them 120 smartass emails for all I know, but that response from them seems kind of snide and unprofessional. I've had another online dealer of 1/18 scale military toys get kind of $hitty and sarcastic with me when I was cancelling an order like I owe my business to them. If Bad Cat's policy is that you get what you get and they don't apologize for minor problems, fine, but try to sound like an adult in the business of selling to customers when saying it. It's just not sexy to hear that your business isn't worth the trouble of keeping you as a customer.

As I said, I don't know the whole story and I like Bad Cat, but the place for sarcasm is not in a toy retailer talking to its customers, even if that is what they are getting from them from time to time.

digger · Post by **digger** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:25 pm

Two things:
1) These are QC issues mainly. Most of the new bbi products have various QC issues. As said, nothing new in 1/18, that's for sure. I recommend buying off the shelf, especially if you want your pick of the litter. The Corsairs were at TRU before BCA and at less money - the big pre-order rush on that was just due to bad info and mass hysteria.

2) BCA sells more 1:18 planes than TRU they say, well then it only makes sense that they can no longer afford to be your local hobby shop and take everything and anything back, replace all parts, etc...
What makes your experience with the Zeke frustrating is that it is THEIR exlcusive!

Made for (and somewhat) by them! If there were one plane they should take the care to inspect through the window before shipment, it should be this one imo.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:39 pm

I just had a very good customer service experience with BCA last week. When my Zero arrived on Monday Oct. 17, it came with two left stabilizers. (One of the handles on the .30 cal. guns on my cockpit was also broken, but no big deal.) I was able to fit the second left stabilizer into the right slot by cutting down the peg, but it still didn't look right. I called BCA that Wednesday, inquiring about my problem (silently expecting that it couldn't get fixed.) The representative took note of my problem, forwarded it to the actual customer service representative, who wasn't in that day, and I got the correct piece that saturday, w/o having to pay anything!

I may have gotten a good response because my problem concerned a noticably defective part with which (despite my interm solution) the plane could not be displayed right. It makes sense that BCA would not want to deal with picky returns of products that have only small defects as it can be bad for business in the long run.

BCA overall runs a wonderful business and has excellent service. Occasional mishaps should be expected considering the volume of customers & sales they deal with. BCA has gotten my business many times before and will continue to get it in the future.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:53 pm

BCA or any other retailer for that matter really doesn’t have the luxury of picking and choosing what defect they wish to address. Not everyone is a modeler and wants to re glue broken parts or do paint touch ups. Maybe there are a hand full of people who find extremely minor defects and want a refund but it shouldn’t be any stores policy to say that a paint smudge or a broken air tank is minor so you should just deal with it. I love BCA and intend to keep doing business with them but I did not care for their email reply at all. If I got that reply I think id be a little peeved.

USCGSARdog · Post by **USCGSARdog** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 8:07 am

I too had two broken tanks in the cockpit of my Zero, as well as the paint popping off of the base of the mast. In my opinion, i think it is hardly worth the time or trouble to worry BCA with such trivial details, especially when I fixed both in less than 5 minutes time. Yes, I know, you paid good money for something that you received "broken". I understand that concept, and I agree but, why sweat the small stuff???

Now, if I had received my Zero and it looked as if it had been recovered from Hickam field after the invasion of Pearl Harbor, then that would be another story. I'm sure Bad Cat would agree.

-Rob

pastel_monster · Post by **pastel_monster** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:27 am

Hello everyone,

Thank you for your replies, they are all greatly appreciated.

USCGSARdog, if the valves which were broken were still in the box I would certainly try to fix the issue myself. But they are not (probably on the floor in the factory in China?). Would that mean, in order to have my Zeke in proper shape, I would need to somehow find similar sized valves somewhere?

In any case, I think we can agree that bbi's QA is quite inconsistent. I do find it curious, however, that this level of quality is defended by collectors, retailers and/or manufacturers as being relative to the price point. As in, since it is a toy that costs only US$50, we should expect it to be defected in one way or another. Would this not be an apologist's point of view? Or that we are resigned to such a status quo?

Please also note that this is NOT meant to be a "Bash BCA" thread. I posted here after getting my Zeke to get feedback and opinions from you guys on your order experiences with them, and to figure out what next to do.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:31 am

I think it’s more the point that we are the customers here and if an item is defective, no matter how trivial it may seem to others, if you don’t have the means to repair it, you should be able to return it. Period. I’m sure they will take it back if you return it. I just didn’t like the little snippet they added about, “Your business is appreciated but we do not want to continue a relationship where the customer is dissatisfied with their purchase."

pastel_monster · Post by **pastel_monster** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:37 am

toyktdlgh wrote:Not everyone is a modeler and wants to re glue broken parts or do paint touch ups.

I so happen to be one of these people. Not by choice, but since birth I have had peculiar nerve system whereby my hands shiver all the time, so it has been very difficult for me to do miniature work which has to be precise.

UPDATE: I just received an automated email from BCA saying that they cancelled my Corsair order, no reason given...why would they do that? I have not yet replied to that email they sent me (as per my first post above), and never said I am cancelling my pre-orders?

Matt, if you're here, could you please email me regarding what's going on?

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 12:52 pm

Hey P or Aferg, can you lock this down?

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 1:40 pm

Quixote511 wrote:Hey P or Aferg, can you lock this down?

I deleted the offending posts. This discussion has merit, however, keep it polite and to the point. I personally haven't had any problems with BCT, and I have ordered quite a few items from them. I can see both points of view on this subject, but I don't want this to continue to be a solely a bashing of BCT. I'm sure everybody has had issues with various on-line retailers. It is unfortunately part of our hobby.

-Ski

USCGSARdog · Post by **USCGSARdog** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:22 pm

Pastel_monster,

First let me start by saying I do agree that the e-mail you received from BCA was pretty unprofessional and as far as I know unwarranted. I too would be ticked had I received a response such as that.

As for your response to my earlier post, well, you asked for peoples opinions. I guess I am at fault for ASSUMING that the tanks were inside the box, AS MINE WERE. I apologize.

With that said, I will not waste any more time on this thread. I will however ask, is all of this really worth getting heated over????? I think not.

-Rob

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:25 pm

Ok, now i'm wondering what the offending posts were about

Its just a discussion about toys and refunds.

rmoore456 · Post by **rmoore456** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:27 pm

pastel_monster wrote:
toyktdlgh wrote:Not everyone is a modeler and wants to re glue broken parts or do paint touch ups.
I so happen to be one of these people. Not by choice, but since birth I have had peculiar nerve system whereby my hands shiver all the time, so it has been very difficult for me to do miniature work which has to be precise.

UPDATE: I just received an automated email from BCA saying that they cancelled my Corsair order, no reason given...why would they do that? I have not yet replied to that email they sent me (as per my first post above), and never said I am cancelling my pre-orders?

Matt, if you're here, could you please email me regarding what's going on?

They told you in the email they didn't want you as a customer if you are disatisfied. Try to order again and you will find you are blacklisted. Your name and credit card will be blocked. Happened to someone I know.
My own experience was good. I received the wrong item. They sent the correct one before I returned the wrong one and included prepaid shipping.

Ray

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 2:31 pm

Wow, I can’t believe stuff like that really happens. I know there are people that abuse the system sometimes but blacklisting someone just seems wrong. I certainly hope that there is some reason other than that for your corsair being cancelled.

coreystinson · Post by **coreystinson** » Sun Oct 30, 2005 3:11 pm

toyktdlgh wrote:Wow, I can’t believe stuff like that really happens. I know there are people that abuse the system sometimes but blacklisting someone just seems wrong.

Blacklisting is when you pass someone's name around to everyone you know telling them not to do business with someone, etc. Is that what is really going on it? Probably not.

More like worst-case scenario is that some customer gets "banned" from doing business with that particular retailer. I have had to do this with a few customers, regrettably, because they refused to comply with up-front stated sales policies and were then belligerent and abusive w/ customer service about it. That kind of behavior is not acceptable.

These threads are largely pointless because no one here knows what correspondence went between customer and Bad Cat. You will only get close to the full story should Bad Cat come on the board and tell their side. They will probably not do so having already learned (as have I) that arguing with irritated customers in an internet discussion forum is a pointless and unwinnable endeavor.

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