21st Century Toys Mourning/Cry Room.

[AJWW2]

We all wish 21st Century was still in business... this is the place to pour out your sorrows

post about how much you wish 21st Century toys were back...

[tmanthegreat]

Not this again... There were those who lamented 21c's demise and there were those who accepted it. 21c made a TON of great stuff and we are all in this hobby because of them. A lot of their products are still first rate and every other manufacturer of realistic 1:18 military goods owes a debt to them.

Nevertheless, they also had a TON of issues with their business, particularly in the areas of financing, marketing, quality control, product distribution, and their relations to their fan base (at least in the later years) that really killed them.

In a lot of ways, I think our hobby has actually reached a healthier state now that they are gone. It has become the specialty collector market it always should have been and is in a much better position to continue for a much longer time.

But, all is not lost. 21c has been reborn in the form of AllGo

After a rough start, you can now buy two 1:32 scale airplanes. They are repaints of the old 21c 32x toolings, come in the old 21c boxes, but cost twice as much as the old 21c items and don't have the pilot figures. Sort of a mixed bag, but it does put 21c back in the game, in a way...

[AJWW2]

you do make good points... is AllGo going to be making 1:18 stuff?

[tmanthegreat]

you do make good points... is AllGo going to be making 1:18 stuff?

At one point they were going to... A year or so ago, when AllGo initially unveiled themselves, as the new (and direct descendant of 21c) they pitched all sorts of fancy new 1:18 repaints and new toolings. Their first release was to be a 1:18 P-51D repaint "Passion Wagon" that actually got to the preorder stage. It was to be followed by a 1:18 King Tiger tank, Jagdpanther, and then there was the Skyworks Toys/AllGo joint A-10 venture. But then, just like the old 21c days, those all turned out to be empty promises and it seemed that AllGo wasn't quite ready to go and almost became a no-go. The P-51 preorders were cancelled, the tanks never materialized, and we all know what happend to Skyworks

A year later, AllGo resurfaces and comes back with a couple of their old 32x toolings with promises of more to come. The future will tell

The other "heir" of 21st Century Toys is the Chinese company JSI. They "obtained" a number of 21c's old moulds (legally or otherwise) and since 2009 have been producing a number of 21c's old aircraft and figures under the JSI brand, including some of the same paint schemes and a couple new ones. So far, JSI has re-released the 21c Corsair, Stuka, P-38, Tiger, M-16 halftrack, Panther, S1 German figures, US Paratrooper figures, and has newly tooled an F-14. JSI may have also been behind the recent gray repaint of the 21c 88mm gun and German F-104 repaint.

[AJWW2]

thanks, I have heard about and looked into JSI. I am interested in the m16 halftrack but I can't find it sold anywhere, same for some of their other models too.

[tko211]

Good old 21c! Without them I doubt we have ever seen the many many MANY products that we have. Competors came on only after seeing the success and demand for realistic military toys. Did 21c and Walmart create the "problem" of us "expecting" low price models at a great value? Absolutely! They are indeed guilty of letting us get away with great deals! Was there disappointing times with delays, announcements of products they had hoped to make in the closing days? Of course! But hey, they did make good on many many other promises.

It's sometimes easy to want to pick on the industry leaders. It happens all the time! The bottom line is that with 21c we had more products in multiple scales at unheard of value. So simply put- our hobby is not better off without them. If they had still been around and Walmart to help back them I am fairly certain we would have had 5-6 new 1:18 planes 2-4 new pieces of armor. And 6-8 new waves of figures. This would have included such releases as: MiG-21, F-4 Phantom (regardless of what anyone thinks they were planning to make it). King Tiger, p-51b/c, new WWII US para's and German para's. British Red Devils, and yes even Russians. All of these were literally planned! Groundwork research was being done for a new P-38 and even more. So, no- I don't think they ruined anything or made our hobby worse, they simply fell victim to Walmart strategy that effectively cut out all toys of any interest leaving only the usual suspects. I miss them and hope someday there is a full return!

[normandy]

Ya had to bring up the King Tiger........... ...................I'd love to find the warehouse they're sitting in.

[Airacobra]

Without 21st Century there would be no 1/18 scale aircraft. They blazed a trail that will hopefully be followed by others. They had a few QC issues but looking at an Avenger or ME-262 in 1/18 scale was something I never thought would be possible. I'm grateful to have been there when they first released their S1 P-51 and ME-109 all the way through the Monkey Depot madness. I miss 21st and wish things would have worked out better for them.

[Dauntless]

stupid Walmart.

Don't forget the 1:32 B-17.

And the massive amount of 1:32 planes and armor we feasted on (well some of us) for even more reasonable prices. I bought both scales en-masse.

It's not likely BBI, or FOV would have gotten in that realm without 21st leading the way. Model companies are offering more choices now including for the first time multi-engine bombers.

[B17Fortress]

To my knowledge, Canadian retailers like Wal Mart and Toys R Us never carried any accurate 1 18 scale items. My only source was my local Chinook and Hobby West, the appointed 21st distributor to the Southern Alberta area. A good quarter of the store was dedicated to these items, but they all vanished in the mid-2009 50% off sale- they sold everything save for a few figures and vehicles, and those they sold to PM HobbyCraft superstore. The last item as sold off on June 14 2011 (Yes I saw it leave the store. It was a Stuka gunner).

Looking back, these two stores never had prices as low as in the States - $15 a figure and a good $65 for a tank. How I wish my store had as one forum member said "Huey's at $20 each stacked to the roof". I hope you yanks know how lucky you were!

As far as mourning 21st, the companies fate was regrettable but equally unavoidable; selling toys during a time of recession isn't going to bring in too much dough to pay the bills.

[usmcchet9296]

Why is Walmart the big evil destructor or 21C? I mean wasnt 21C run by adults and didnt they learn from thier relationship with TRU back in the 1/6th days. No dont blame Walmart for the demise of 21C.... Blame 21C

[smittyrob64]

Toys R us here in BC used to carry 1:18 21st stuff back around 2000. I bought a grey tiger there for $50, then they got politically correct and wouldn't sell any german items, then no 21st stuff at all. Walmart here I think did carry a few 1/32 FOV items for awhile.
I only bought one item from the Monkey madness sale. It was very hard to restrain myself with one.

[greendevil41]

I miss 21C

I still have the first issue Bf-109 and P-51 (both much modified) and remember the excitement when one of us would spot the latest release in TRU or Walmart and we'd call everybody from the store to get down there. And the Walmart clearances with planes going for $25.00. They had their issues but seemed to be improving with each new release.

Last week I bought A Mediterranean camo Stuka from a friend for $25.00 and it brought back some pleasant memories. I think the only one glad they went under was my wife, whose ideas on room decor seldom included 1/18 scale anything....

[tko211]

Why is Walmart the big evil destructor or 21C? I mean wasnt 21C run by adults and didnt they learn from thier relationship with TRU back in the 1/6th days. No dont blame Walmart for the demise of 21C.... Blame 21C

It's not nearly as cut and dried as some might think. It's all about volume and value with the big mass retailers. 21c absolutely needed the support of volume game to have accomplished all that they did. It's a bit like musical chairs. You get in or you don't. When the music starts you get into a sync, then as soon as Walmart stops (for whatever reason) then its scramble and if you can't find a seat fast enough then you're done- completely because you just spent years building operations and proceedures that rely on mass and volume. It's not sustainable. This is not a unique situation it's well documented that this exact situation has happens time and again to other manufactures.

Read this link and then do some homework and then try to say that Walmart has not driven long lasting, profitable brands into the ground. http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

All this being said, the alternative, without mass retail volume and support looks exactly like JSI and Admiral toys. (bbi owns many many other toy lines and elite force is not a huge money maker). JSI produced 1 new plane in 2 years at 299.99. Admiral tried to compete with Walmart pricing and 21c only to discover that it's not profitable! I bet JSI is only making a very narrow margin on the tomcat as it is! Without mass retail 1:18 and even value oriented 1:32 simply does not work as anything other than a boutique collector market. Someday mass retail might wake back up and decide to deversify into exclusive lines once again as a point of difference, setting them apart from their competitors.

You can disagree with this logic completely but I guarantee you this is how it is. Most ironic of all this is that the sales numbers the month 21c was cut were actually very very good. They held top selling spots in boys toys. They got cut because of a larger "vision" to remove all collector / adult oriented toys. In addition the electronics dept expanded into guess where... Toys! Loosing 4 isles. Meanwhile growing fitness areas into guess what? Toys. Go and really look at a walmart today! It's all the same stuff at target, and even TRU! All the basiscs, hasbro, mattel, movie tie-ins, Lego, and little else. Toys just aren't as interesting and everyone has all the same stuff! Go try to find a plane of any kind anywhere at mass retail! Good luck, you got some match box kid crap, a cheap miasto line, then the kid oriented "chunky" china crap at TRU.

[Jackson]

ahhh I remember picking up several Winter Bf109Es {wrong paint scheme that belonged on a 109F and not an E} at Wal-Mart which prompted me to start making Decals....that stupid X on the tail along with the black diamond on the previous 2 109s just pissed me off I must say....

[Threetoughtrucks]

Without 21C, I doubt that I would ever have been collecting toys of any scale. I built boxed military models as a kid and left that hobby as a kid.

My boys gave me a 1/18 21C Command Car as a BDay present because I had owned a 1/1 Command Car and my boys learned to drive my Command Car as soon as their feet could reach the pedals. Nobody bothered us in the woods, fields or on the beach near our home. I was amazed at the accuracy and detail of the 21C "toy" and looked into it. The start of my hobby. U guys have heard that story many times but it's what U expect from old guys....

I don't really know what I would be collecting without 21C, but it sure would not be toys and dollies.

I will always be grateful to them for that. The existence is AllGo does nothing for me as I don't do planes.

So thank you 21C for interesting me in toys and dollies.

TTT

[aferguson]

nobody should be dissing 21c or Walmart (or even Toys R Us for that matter). Without 21c this hobby would not exist. Period. And without TRU buying the line from 21c, initially, this hobby wouldn't exist either. Other than star wars and gi joe there would be no fantastic 1/18 military figures, tanks and planes at all. Who else would have made them if not for the innovation of 21c? Everybody else just jumped on their bandwagon.

And without WM the XD line would have died shortly after it came out. TRU lost interest in the line due to weak sales and other issues with 21c and 21c was on the verge of bankruptcy. Then the WM deal came along which gave us several YEARS of not only 1/18 military toys but CHEAP 1/18 scale military toys.

We all know what's happened since then but that was somewhat inevitable, with the recession setting in, but the point is that this hobby now exists thanks to 21c (and WM) and we can still enjoy it in modified form. The Bell X-1, Dauntless, modified Blackhawk and any future releases being proof of that.

[CW4USARMY]

No doubt that we wouldnt have this hobby without 21st. I would dare say that they started it all with 1:18 realistic military toys and are the primary reason I got into this hobby when I saw my first plane in a box at ToysRus over a decade ago. But, can't blame the recession on why they failed, that was happening before the recession kicked in. Many toy lines still alive and kicking, with some companies having record profits this year and last.

[pickelhaube]

No doubt that we wouldnt have this hobby without 21st. I would dare say that they started it all with 1:18 realistic military toys and are the primary reason I got into this hobby when I saw my first plane in a box at ToysRus over a decade ago. But, can't blame the recession on why they failed, that was happening before the recession kicked in. Many toy lines still alive and kicking, with some companies having record profits this year and last.

10 years . Has it been that long? It sure does not feel like it.

Our fearless leader is right. Heck it it were not for 21st C. We would not be talking on this forum.

[Dauntless]

Walmart giveth, Walmart taketh away. I like them for the giveth (and TRU originally) but I diss them for the taketh, when 21stC was still a viable seller. They just needed some adjustment in distribution, not a total cut off. If they didn't like all that shelf space taken up by 1:18 planes, they could have made them to order online (which they NEVER did) and continued to stock the shelves with 1:32 which had a high turnaround, not just drop them altogether.

Whoever worked for WM and made the decision to end "adult collector" oriented toys and end the relationship with 21stC aught to have his cruel balls busted.

It's the adults who still to this day collect the Vintage Collection Star Wars toys, pay 1 to 2 dollars more for them. It's the adults that still buy the GI Joes, it's the adults that still buy the collector oriented Hot Wheels cars and other lines like M2 etc. and the lower lines of each too. All these toys disguised as kids toys c'mon.

You never know what what goes on with the other big toy manufacturers that Walmart sells. There could have been some back room deals, strings pulled. They don't like sharing shelf space with other toys that are competition. Hasbro has whole isles with nothing but their product, same pretty much with Mattel, give or take the Maisto crap etc.

Thank you Walmart for the feast, thank you Walmart for the famine.

[812boys]

I still miss being able to go to the store and buy them. I still remember my first ultimate soldier buy. All the way back in 2005 at Walmart in Paoli, Indiana. I bought the first series of the b.o.b. figures ended up getting a really good deal on them too even well before they knocked the prices down. They had them listed at .99 cents a piece. I really hope that All-go does get up and running as long as prices are not to much they will have my money.

[Threetoughtrucks]

What I do not miss is spending a day driving from Walmart to Walmart (4)and Toy-R-Us (5), hoping to find what I wanted in stock.

I found the best finds were in the two "old" and messy TRU's in my driving area and the treasure finds of finding 1/18 stuff in the wrong aisle.

Of course we all had closeout buys, like 1/18 Command Cars at $2.50 each (I bought 5 or 7) and 1/6 Command Cars at $49 (I bought 3) and 1/6 White Cars, a lonely one at $59 for me to buy. I even bought a 1/18 P-38 that was hanging from a TRU ceiling months after they stopped selling carrying 21C. The manager got it down (with an inch of dust on it but complete) and gave it to me for $20.

The good old days. Of course that does not include the last flea market etailer prices at our favorite etailer. I still have boxes of M-16's and M-48 tanks and odd pieces like an Avenger and boxes of 1/18 figs, Tigers and a crate of Panzers. The good old days.

TTT

[aferguson]

it's been 11 years actually.

i remember toy runs too....driving down to buffalo to go through TRU and later WM to find the stuff not released up here; which was pretty much everything after the first year and half. Fun times.

[Jackson]

yes... miss the "On the Hunt" days at Wal-Mart

[flyboy_fx]