Wondering about AllGo's Passion Wagon

[ram04]

I agree the King Tiger would have been a wiser choice to start with than a repaint of a aircraft that has been offered in many paint schemes.

[Dauntless]

Or started small with a 1:32 Passion Wagon, which in 21C's improved P-51D Mustang mold was definitely not over produced.

Oh I forgot, we still don't know where the elusive 1:32 fleet is.

[MCalamari]

I'm a bit confused here. Its delayed, not canceled ... right?

[aferguson]

this was discussed. They couldn't afford to start with the KT. The Passion Wagon was to provide funds for them to get to the next step, which possibly would have been the KT.

It was a gamble that looks like it hasn't paid off, as there possibly was not enough interest in Passion Wagon at the necessary price point to justify production.

So that may be that...but maybe just for now. Time will tell.

[Rowsdower]

They have gone offline to prepare for the release of the 1:18 Mitchell.

[tko211]

I will do more poking around to see if I can get more intel. Right now, based on my older but still most recent emails from All-Go. There was a growing concern over the acceptable quality of the production run Passion Wagon in conjunction with the risk factor of releasing the P-51D again so soon.

I suspect that pulling the P-51D off the go list for now is more strategic than anything else. But I don't know for sure. It feels like the 1:18 game is so uncertain and expensive these days that it has all of us guessing.

I wish I knew more and if I did I certainly would share it here with everyone. I am almost at as much of a loss... I will remain optimistic as I always do and as have served me well in the past. Might be more of a waiting game than we all hoped and expected.

[456THBG]

TKO, thanks for speaking up...We know you're in an awkward position and are doing the best you can with it (especially, since like most of us, you have a "day job")...
We'll just have to wait and see.

[aferguson]

at this point you have to figure ALL GO is gone for, at the very least, a long while. Otherwise, they would have kept their site up and be communicating to the fan base through TKO.

The Passion Wagon may have been an all or nothing, only hope of getting going again, gamble, that failed and there was nothing else for them to do but fold up again.

Another incarnation of 21c may be back one day however.

For now......that Matorro King Tiger is looking awfully good again...

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

Have to say something about this, but did they seriously think they'd raise enough money to get capital going by selling broken prototypes. I saw the prototypes and they were asking a couple of thousand each for them, but don't you need a couple hundred thousand dollars to get going, maybe even more.

If their business plan was to raise money to start production by selling their prototypes, that's just a crazy strategey. I know loans and bank credit is hard to get but geez...

That tells me their business model was shaky from the start and they had no idea what their plan was. And banks wouldn't take the risk.

Corey

[paulpratt]

i'm going to repost the comment i made over on F118th, because i still think this may be the case:

"I'm holding out to see what is going on, but i have a feeling they might be coming back as 21st Century Toys. We've heard reports of them trying to hold the name (protect it anyway) and i think they are going after JSI hard core to get their "stolen" molds back. If they can get JSI, I'm hoping they'll come back better than ever. Unfortunately that doesn't bode well for getting me a few king tigers and jagdpanthers in a timely manner."

[usmcchet9296]

i'm going to repost the comment i made over on F118th, because i still think this may be the case:

"I'm holding out to see what is going on, but i have a feeling they might be coming back as 21st Century Toys. We've heard reports of them trying to hold the name (protect it anyway) and i think they are going after JSI hard core to get their "stolen" molds back. If they can get JSI, I'm hoping they'll come back better than ever. Unfortunately that doesn't bode well for getting me a few king tigers and jagdpanthers in a timely manner."

I find it highly doubtfull that All-Go would tarnish thier reputation just to get the name of an already tarnished name like 21C. Like others have siad I think the market for 1/18th is in hybernation and they (All-Go) decided to cut bait and run. Now one could say that the lack of recient JSI releases using old 21C molds could point to a resurgance of 21C but I doubt it ..... the odds are there could be a legal "hold" on JSI making more ex-21C products or they are holding off committing the resouces on 1/18th till the market rebounds and they can ensure some profit. I tend to think with so many people out of work, me included, that releasing more 1/18th right now is a gamble most cant afford to make.

[aferguson]

boy, if they had the kind of money it would take for a legal battle with JSI then you'd think they'd be releasing the KT, a sure money maker, first and considering something like Passion Wagon for down the road. But PW was intended to raise some money to kick start the company.

And to let their website lapse? Without any comment to us or Fighting 118? I think they're gone and maybe for good. I sure hope not; a resurgence of 21c would be glorious.

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

The problem with getting the molds back would be legally though.

If 21c failed to pay the bills to the Chinese factories and JSI seized the molds due to non-payment, it's like a bank repossessing a car. They have the right to do with it what they want and even though you paid the money you did, you are not entitled to get it back. I highly doubt JSI seized anything illegally and I think 21c never paid the bills. If that's the truth, then 21c/All-Go would have lots of problems getting back their molds.

A return of 21c would not be glorious, I think it'd be a disaster right now. They would release the same molds with the same problems. The same things with the same quality control problems. As TKO alluded to, there may have been quality issues with the Mustang and they shut it down rather than be embarassed.

Quite frankly, I have no idea why this company has the quality control issues they do. They should be able to paint a plane and package it to avoid breakage. If they can't do that, they have no business selling anything at this point. To me, the problem was they were getting cheaper factories to do the work for them, causing quality to go down. If they want to be a serious player in 1/18, any company needs to have products that are high in quality, durable and collectors are proud to display in their collections. We haven't seen anything like that in awhile.

Corey

[dragon53]

So are the rest of the JSI repaints (F-104, P-40, UH-1, ME-262, etc.) being help up because JSI fears legal action by All-Go?

[aferguson]

while i can't see all-go being able to go after JSI directly, they may be able to block their old products from being sold in the US and perhaps elsewhere. The loss of the US market alone may discourage JSI from using the molds. Just speculation.

[normandy]

I'd love to see 21st/All-Go back in the game! I don't know what got us to this point but with out them......I'd never have found this scale or Ground Pounders/SSHQ.

Quality Control has always been an issue with 21st and I dare say any company who has production over seas. As time went on things got better..... The Fw-190's, Me-109's and the two Me-262's these were models not toys. I don't know if Passion Wagon a good choice or not but a King Tiger and Jagdpanther might have turned things around for them.
I've said it for years......Armor Sells!! look at Pickelhaubes and theHuns custom Kits!
Normandy.

[dragon53]

AFERGUSON:

I was hoping JSI repaints would provide a cheaper alternative to ebay's $250 21st Century 1/18 models.

[Dauntless]

21C coming back as 21C would really depend on which chapter of bankruptcy they filed. If they did indeed file a chapter 11, which is a reorganization and assets are protected from creditors filing, and it is approved by the courts. Then JSI did indeed "steal" the molds.

If they filed a 7 then assets are liquidated to creditors to do with them what they see fit, give or take a few technicalities.

I would love to see them come back. They had a good business model IMO, but being dropped by the 800 ton gorilla Walmart would put anyone under. Like to see Hasbro or anyone survive that.

F##* Walmart!

[Coreyeagle48]

Greetings:

The 190's and 262's in my opinion were some of the worst models they made. Many many people complained about broken parts and lack of quality on both models, especially the ME-262's. I know someone who went through four of them just to get a good one. That is unacceptable in a marketplace where you should be able to get a good one on at least the second try.

To put this in perspective, I bought over 200 lego sets when I collected them, there was never one missing a part. I bought many many Ertl 1/18 cars and never had a problem. I bought other aircraft from other companies and had an occassional problem. This is nothing compared to what 21st's problems were with their models/toys. They can say it was Walmart's fault, we rushed it to get to the fans, etc. That's an excuse. The real problem was them and their factories. Walmart didn't hand touchup the finishes on their planes, 21st did. Walmart didn't print the markings backwards or off center or overspray, 21c did. And if Walmart was destroying the planes in the boxes and the boxes weren't holding the planes, you design a new box! If McDonalds can design new packing for a cheeseburger, 21c could have designed a new box. JSI just put a flap on it and look how it worked out. Really good! How hard was that to do?

This board has a real tendency to bail 21st out of their problems. Any excuse is given for the reason why these pieces were not up to par with the pieces produced by other companies. The reason 21c got thrown out of Walmart was because people kept returning their broken stuff! Walmart got tired of it and I'm sure TRU might have too. The writing it clearly on the wall here. I don't care if it's a $2 Hot Wheels car or a $40 21c plane or a $200 Franklin Mint plane. The bottom line is that the quality control gaffs they made were unacceptable. The best part about this is that other companies have taken 21c's perfect business model and copied it because they thought it was acceptable. JSI and the F-14 debacle is a prime example. JSI probably honestly thought "Who cares how we paint it and if half of it's broken, that's what 21c did and they got away with it".

If 21c does come back or if JSI keeps going or if BBI suddenly comes alive, I hope these companies realize that quality control must be shored up and must be better. Customers demand it. I also hope they realize that endless P-51 repaints will not keep customers coming back, you need new and exciting products to keep interest.

[snake]

Greetings:

The 190's and 262's in my opinion were some of the worst models they made. Many many people complained about broken parts and lack of quality on both models, especially the ME-262's. I know someone who went through four of them just to get a good one. That is unacceptable in a marketplace where you should be able to get a good one on at least the second try.

To put this in perspective, I bought over 200 lego sets when I collected them, there was never one missing a part. I bought many many Ertl 1/18 cars and never had a problem. I bought other aircraft from other companies and had an occassional problem. This is nothing compared to what 21st's problems were with their models/toys. They can say it was Walmart's fault, we rushed it to get to the fans, etc. That's an excuse. The real problem was them and their factories. Walmart didn't hand touchup the finishes on their planes, 21st did. Walmart didn't print the markings backwards or off center or overspray, 21c did. And if Walmart was destroying the planes in the boxes and the boxes weren't holding the planes, you design a new box! If McDonalds can design new packing for a cheeseburger, 21c could have designed a new box. JSI just put a flap on it and look how it worked out. Really good! How hard was that to do?

This board has a real tendency to bail 21st out of their problems. Any excuse is given for the reason why these pieces were not up to par with the pieces produced by other companies. The reason 21c got thrown out of Walmart was because people kept returning their broken stuff! Walmart got tired of it and I'm sure TRU might have too. The writing it clearly on the wall here. I don't care if it's a $2 Hot Wheels car or a $40 21c plane or a $200 Franklin Mint plane. The bottom line is that the quality control gaffs they made were unacceptable. The best part about this is that other companies have taken 21c's perfect business model and copied it because they thought it was acceptable. JSI and the F-14 debacle is a prime example. JSI probably honestly thought "Who cares how we paint it and if half of it's broken, that's what 21c did and they got away with it".

If 21c does come back or if JSI keeps going or if BBI suddenly comes alive, I hope these companies realize that quality control must be shored up and must be better. Customers demand it. I also hope they realize that endless P-51 repaints will not keep customers coming back, you need new and exciting products to keep interest.

Very well said,and argued,Corey.

Couldn't agree more.

[Mitch]

Greetings:

The 190's and 262's in my opinion were some of the worst models they made. Many many people complained about broken parts and lack of quality on both models, especially the ME-262's. I know someone who went through four of them just to get a good one. That is unacceptable in a marketplace where you should be able to get a good one on at least the second try.

To put this in perspective, I bought over 200 lego sets when I collected them, there was never one missing a part. I bought many many Ertl 1/18 cars and never had a problem. I bought other aircraft from other companies and had an occassional problem. This is nothing compared to what 21st's problems were with their models/toys. They can say it was Walmart's fault, we rushed it to get to the fans, etc. That's an excuse. The real problem was them and their factories. Walmart didn't hand touchup the finishes on their planes, 21st did. Walmart didn't print the markings backwards or off center or overspray, 21c did. And if Walmart was destroying the planes in the boxes and the boxes weren't holding the planes, you design a new box! If McDonalds can design new packing for a cheeseburger, 21c could have designed a new box. JSI just put a flap on it and look how it worked out. Really good! How hard was that to do?

This board has a real tendency to bail 21st out of their problems. Any excuse is given for the reason why these pieces were not up to par with the pieces produced by other companies. The reason 21c got thrown out of Walmart was because people kept returning their broken stuff! Walmart got tired of it and I'm sure TRU might have too. The writing it clearly on the wall here. I don't care if it's a $2 Hot Wheels car or a $40 21c plane or a $200 Franklin Mint plane. The bottom line is that the quality control gaffs they made were unacceptable. The best part about this is that other companies have taken 21c's perfect business model and copied it because they thought it was acceptable. JSI and the F-14 debacle is a prime example. JSI probably honestly thought "Who cares how we paint it and if half of it's broken, that's what 21c did and they got away with it".

If 21c does come back or if JSI keeps going or if BBI suddenly comes alive, I hope these companies realize that quality control must be shored up and must be better. Customers demand it. I also hope they realize that endless P-51 repaints will not keep customers coming back, you need new and exciting products to keep interest.

Well Said and 100% True

[exether_mega]

King Tiger and Jagdpanther might have turned things around for them.
I've said it for years......Armor Sells!! look at Pickelhaubes and theHuns custom Kits!
Normandy.

so true !

phil

[gouchy]

By the time this probable ongoing legal battle is done and dusted,

Lawyers will be the last ones standing and the only ones that can afford to collect 1/18

[skypirate]

I know it's just wishful thinking and a fantasy long shot, but there is that movie, Panzer88, centered around a King Tiger crew, that will be released in 2011.

It sounds like they're military hardware fanatics too. They might be supportive.

Strike up a deal with them, like they did with Sky Captain and get some financial backing, give them a large portion of the profits on the initial, Panzer 88 run.

Then do tons of repaints!!!
(and hope for a sequel)

[skypirate]

Greetings:

The 190's and 262's in my opinion were some of the worst models they made. Many many people complained about broken parts and lack of quality on both models, especially the ME-262's. I know someone who went through four of them just to get a good one. That is unacceptable in a marketplace where you should be able to get a good one on at least the second try.

To put this in perspective, I bought over 200 lego sets when I collected them, there was never one missing a part. I bought many many Ertl 1/18 cars and never had a problem. I bought other aircraft from other companies and had an occassional problem. This is nothing compared to what 21st's problems were with their models/toys. They can say it was Walmart's fault, we rushed it to get to the fans, etc. That's an excuse. The real problem was them and their factories. Walmart didn't hand touchup the finishes on their planes, 21st did. Walmart didn't print the markings backwards or off center or overspray, 21c did. And if Walmart was destroying the planes in the boxes and the boxes weren't holding the planes, you design a new box! If McDonalds can design new packing for a cheeseburger, 21c could have designed a new box. JSI just put a flap on it and look how it worked out. Really good! How hard was that to do?

This board has a real tendency to bail 21st out of their problems. Any excuse is given for the reason why these pieces were not up to par with the pieces produced by other companies. The reason 21c got thrown out of Walmart was because people kept returning their broken stuff! Walmart got tired of it and I'm sure TRU might have too. The writing it clearly on the wall here. I don't care if it's a $2 Hot Wheels car or a $40 21c plane or a $200 Franklin Mint plane. The bottom line is that the quality control gaffs they made were unacceptable. The best part about this is that other companies have taken 21c's perfect business model and copied it because they thought it was acceptable. JSI and the F-14 debacle is a prime example. JSI probably honestly thought "Who cares how we paint it and if half of it's broken, that's what 21c did and they got away with it".

If 21c does come back or if JSI keeps going or if BBI suddenly comes alive, I hope these companies realize that quality control must be shored up and must be better. Customers demand it. I also hope they realize that endless P-51 repaints will not keep customers coming back, you need new and exciting products to keep interest.

Agreed. One observation, there was an emphasis that All Go would be American made. That, at least to me, hinted at the problems with the foreign factories. Not in anyway, denying the quality control issues (although the 1/32 WM Cold Steel model I bought were awful compared to my previous 21c purchases). My thoughts are, the American made would allow them better control over the molds and possibly quality.