king tigers ardennes soft or hard edges?

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 6:28 am

I like to paint my ardennes king tiger in the ardennes ambush camo without putting any specific number on the turret
Do i have to paint it using soft or hard edges?
thanks for your reply
stefano

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:06 am

Do i have to paint it using soft or hard edges?

I guess to a certain extent it is a matter of personal preference. That being said, most people prefer the look of the so-called "soft edge" for the camo pattern. You will probably need an airbrush for this however.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:07 pm

German ambush camouflage is typically hard-edged, but it can also be soft-edged.

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Sat May 01, 2010 2:10 pm

hallo osketten and hworth18
thanks for your replys
the tank in question is a german king tiger henschel turret version by tamiya 1/16 scale
A friend of mine painted for me without consulting me and although he made a good job i would like to know if is correct
Unfortunately i cant show you pics so i will do my best to describe it to you for references the model has the following features

ambush camo version 3 colours paint scheme with dots typical of the ardennes version
Soft but well demarkated edges with a film of dust weatering that makes the soft look softer
no zimmerit at all
no turret numbers
no markings
and is similar to this model except for the fact that is a henschel version and not the porsche version depicted here
www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/shieldstiger.htm

in your opinion from my description does it sound correct?
if yes for which front would such tank be suitable for?
thanks very much in advance for your help
stefano

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:18 pm

The three-tone color scheme would be correct, I don't know about the soft-edge spots (I would go for more hard edge spots). Only the early Henschel turret King Tigers had zimmerit as its use was discontinued in Sept 1944 over fears of the zimmerit catching fire. So anything made from Sept to the end of the war would not have zimmerit. It should have tactical numbers though.

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sat May 01, 2010 3:39 pm

ambush camo version 3 colours paint scheme with dots typical of the ardennes version
Soft but well demarkated edges with a film of dust weatering that makes the soft look softer
no zimmerit at all
no turret numbers
no markings
and is similar to this model except for the fact that is a henschel version and not the porsche version depicted here
www.modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/shieldstiger.htm

in your opinion from my description does it sound correct?
if yes for which front would such tank be suitable for?

If your tank looks anything like the one in the link you posted, then I would say you've got a winner, it looks very nice to me. As for being "correct" that can be a far trickier question to answer, but again, it looks fine to me, and relatively consistent with most other Kingtiger ambush patterns I have seen. I believe the so called "ambush" pattern was developed for and used mostly on the Western front, IIRC it was supposed to make the tank hard to detect from the air when parked under trees etc. in order to hide the vehicles from marauding allied fighter bombers, which had nearly total control of the air at that stage of the war. By the way, it would be very simple to add some turret numbers to your model if you wanted to, I would recommend Archer dry transfers, they apply easily and look great. One of their 1/16 Tiger sheets should work well, like this one.... http://www.archertransfers.com/AR16003.html

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:00 pm

hallo osketten
thanks for your reply and for the informations
i have this link that shows a even closest looks to my tank
www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10023776a/20/1
as you can see

same ambush 3colours/dots camo paint scheme
no zimmerit
soft edges camo

I am not sure about the camo soft edges i think i read somwhere that the
king tiger in the ardennes used the hard edges
thanks stefano

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sat May 01, 2010 4:38 pm

hallo osketten
thanks for your reply and for the informations
i have this link that shows a even closest looks to my tank
www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10023776a/20/1
as you can see

same ambush 3colours/dots camo paint scheme
no zimmerit
soft edges camo

I am not sure about the camo soft edges i think i read somwhere that the
king tiger in the ardennes used the hard edges
thanks stefano

Stefano, unfortunately the link does not seem to be working, or at least I cannot see any picture...?? At any rate, I would not worry too much about hard versus soft edges, the effects of dust and weathering would quickly turn the hard edges into a softer looking edge on a real tank anyway.

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Sat May 01, 2010 5:32 pm

hi osketten
Do you really think that a good layer of weathering would soften hard edges?
I have would have thought the same think
but i must admitt the pics of the real king tiger really look well hard
try again the pic i posted
www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10023766a/20/1
stefano

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sun May 02, 2010 5:56 am

Yes I can see the pic now. The dots on that tank look hard edge, but the main camo pattern appears to be airbrushed on. In the end it's really up to you, and what you prefer. You can drive yourself crazy trying to achieve total realism and/or historical accuracy, so just go for the amount of accuracy that's acceptable to you, and after that focus on what looks nice to you. Frankly, of the two tanks that you linked pictures of, I would personally be very happy to have either paintjob on a tank of my own.

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Sun May 02, 2010 8:19 am

hi ostketten
great post my fiend
thanks very much for your opinion this is what i am going to do
ciao stefano

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sun May 02, 2010 12:14 pm

stefano wrote: great post my fiend

ciao stefano

I've been called many things in my lifetime, but never a FIEND

No worries Stefano my friend... I realize it was only a typing error... but I had to laugh a bit when I saw that..

I once got a flyer in my mailbox advertising a local yard sale that had a typo in it.... "Welcome Fiends & Neighbors" LOL....

Needless to say, I didn't attend...

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Sun May 02, 2010 1:18 pm

hallo osketten my FRIEND
I new my english was'nt of the best but when i call someone a fiend is ridicolous LOL
Sense of humor sometimes means a lot even for us modeller/collectors
that sometimes going to complicate our lives even more of which are already complicated as they are
thanks for your reply
ciao stefano

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Sun May 02, 2010 4:44 pm

hi Osketten
tell me what do you make of this ?
the ambush camo seems to be soft edges at least for this one
www.ss501panzer.com/tanks_of_ss501.htm
stefano

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sun May 02, 2010 6:25 pm

I think we have to distinguish the terminology... "soft" versus ""hard" edges from a modellers point of view.... that is to say airbrushed versus hand brushed, (or airbrushed with a mask) to produce well defined edges. On actual tanks stencils may have been used for the numbers, unit insignia, and Balkenkreuz etc., and the effects of weather, dust, and hard use in the field may have given these a "soft edged" look over time, but I think it's distinctly different than the same terms (soft/hard) when used in a modelling context. Sorry if the way I have explained this is confusing, I don't know how to say it any better, but maybe one of our other members can.

stefano · Post by **stefano** » Sun May 02, 2010 7:13 pm

hi
You have explained very well
Is actually conforting to me that even if, stancil were used,the edges, even if the hardest edges will have to give in a little bit on the soft side with some decent weathering ,to give the effect of the battle hardened machine,that we modeller want to achieve.
In my opinion this is very much acceptable from a modeller point of view
I think this is the substance of your modeller parameters if i understand you well? and the right philosophy for me too
stefano