He strikes again

[flyboy_fx]

with better success. I dose not look that bad

Like I said not "bad"

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-18-Custom-Ultimat ... 2304ec58b3

[gliderdwm]

He mentions this as mid-production but this has early tiger cuppola. Mid -production Tiger means the cuppola was changed to the one that comes up and swivels not the one where the lid hinges upward.
July 1943
New turret with revised cupola is installed.
Pistol port plug and uncut escape.
Zimmerit anti-magnetic mine coating is applied.

Great source for Tiger info:
http://www.alanhamby.com/tiger.html

[bananapirate]

MAybe I should sell my repainted stuff on ebay afterall

[ram04]

Not to be a critic, but this seems to be overpriced for the amount of customizing.

[flyboy_fx]

I mean the cuppola looks so good but it is so wrong...

[PanzerArm]

He mentions this as mid-production but this has early tiger cuppola. Mid -production Tiger means the cuppola was changed to the one that comes up and swivels not the one where the lid hinges upward.
July 1943
New turret with revised cupola is installed.
Pistol port plug and uncut escape.
Zimmerit anti-magnetic mine coating is applied.

Great source for Tiger info:
http://www.alanhamby.com/tiger.html

I think it all depends when you think a early-production tiger was made. To me they are from July 1942-November/December 1942, but many people think of them as being from July 1942-July 1943. There are several reasons for mine and their opinion.

The model above is correct (to my standing) in the following ways:

The commander's cupola originally installed on the 21st tiger, the later one did not see installation on tigers until July 1943 as gliderdwm said, however, the tank portrayed here was made post December 1942-before July 1943, which i consider early mid-production), and saw combat during Operation Citadel. The reason I say post December 1942 is because it has the turret-side escape hatch in place of the pistol port present on early models, which began in december 42. Early models had two pistol ports. The gunner's binocular vision port being reinforced is also a sign of a mid production model (started being installed in Nov 1942). That means his title, pistol port, cupola, and mantlet are correct. The lack of Feifel air filters on his tank is not conclusive as I have many pics of s.pz.abt 503 tanks during this time with and without them, probably due to loss in the high tempo of combat.

Early tigers are distinguishable from mid-late ones in the following ways. 2 pistol ports on turret rear-quarters. Different style turret stowage bins, either on the side, or the smaller ones on the back (and sometimes even pz. IV ones). The bosche headlights mounted on the top of the front hull superstructure, as opposed to on the front plate, or just a single one in the middle. Thinner mud guards on front and rear (no hinged extensions). Also there were different exhaust covers used in the early ones. There are a few other differences as well.

I know I am kind of going against some sources opinions, but to me the differences between the tigers made from before November 1942 differ from the ones made from November 1942- in far more ways that those made pre-july 1943 and those post july 1943-August 1944. Again this is just my opinion, and what it really comes down to is whether you want to call the new cupola or the new mantlet, smoke and s-mine dischargers, and the addition of the escape hatch the division between early/mid tigers. I am prone to go withe the latter.

Zimmerit was not applied until August/September 1943, and really isn't used to distinguish early to mid variances. Though the fact that he says he's portraying a Oct 1943 tank is troubling. He should have just done his research and saw that this would be better off as a July 1943 tank.

Other mistakes include: The absence of smoke dischargers and s-mine dischargers. From December 1942-November 1943 these were installed, and his tank has neither. And saying that there are pics of the real thing and they are quite evident in the pictures, this is a big oversight. Also, the Bosch headlight he left in the middle of the front plate is incorrect.

All that being said, the price is way too high.

Ok enough tiger talk for tonight, I'm going to drink a beer or 5.

-Kevin

[812boys]

Yes that cuppola looks so good that most of us maybe even already have one, did anyone catch what it is off of? Okay I am not good with a secret it looks just like one of mine off my Panzer IV's

[flyboy_fx]

Hmm well now to me it looks bad....I thought he made that... so tank=4of10

[PanzerArm]

Hmm well now to me it looks bad....I thought he made that... so tank=4of10

Definitely not a Pz. IV cupola, I think he made that. I made an early tiger out of an FOV mid one (1/32 not 1/18 ) a little over a year ago, and it was not difficult to make a early style cupola. All it really required was 2 different diameter PVC pipes, some sheet styrene(for the cupola "roof"), a hatch stolen from a 1/32 stug, some squadron green putty, and a dremel (and other little things). The panzer IVs cupola is noticeably different, as it has the armored covered vision blocks(moveable up and down), and no brace/spring mechanism on the cupola hatch(when they had one piece hatches). His cupola does have a notional brace(just for looks, doesn't look to be functional), and has the unarmored vision ports (just thick glass IRL).


-Kevin

[812boys]

No offense buddy, but that is a Panzer IV cupola that he has customized I am setting here looking at one I have taken apart and they match right up. Yes it has some add on parts but that is off of a Panzer IV. If you look it even has the lid that has one side of it cut to a straight line so it would close right on the Panzer IV. He has added a new Latch and taken the lower Guard off and put notches in it for ports that is all he has done you may have made one but he didn't. Sorry It is pretty neat though. Have you thought about getting your eyes checked out lol

[PanzerArm]

Well I don't own the 1/18 version of 21st pz IV, but if that's the cupola off of it you guys should be complaining about the wrong cupola on the panzer IV, and not the correct looking one on his Tiger. Here is a quick lesson.

This is the basic evolution of the cupola for panzer IV:



21st's panzer IV is an ausf H I believe, so it's cupola should look like this one on a model by Maza Takahashi:



Here is a pic of the early tiger's cupola:



Notice there are a great many aesthetic differences.

Now, since I don't mess with 1/18 scale tanks, and can't find a good pic of a 21st's panzer IVs cupola, I'm going to go with either one of two options:

1) Either 21st really messed up their Pz IV's cupola and this guy did indeed see the similarity to the earlier tiger cupola and capitalized on it (I would have to, less work)

or

2) If 21st panzer IV has a correct cupola then he made it because an accurate ausf. H cupola looks nothing like the earlier tiger's cupola (But going off of 812boys testimony it would appear the 1st option is correct and 21st just made an inaccurate pz IV).


-Kevin

[812boys]

Yes it looks nothing like my smaller scale models. If I can figure out how to post pics I will put some up. It you do a little work on the the one off of the R/C one that I have it is the same one. All he has done is popped it off the tank itself it than breaks into two pieces where you have the part that he used. He has added what looks like a new handle off of the other hatch on another tiger and put that on the lid but it is off of the Panzer IV I will post picks if my redneck ass can figure out how too lol. I wouldn't mind trying to do one if it can be done better I remember seeing one on here months ago that looked pretty kick ass. My only thing is by the time I get done painting them it looks like something a 6 year old would do. I use to be able to spray apartments all day long but I am just learning with the airbrush.

[812boys]

Well here it goes
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[][/img]

See there you go he did do a little work on it but that is it. He put notches on it and a new handle and some other small stuff.

[pickelhaube]

Well my feeling is this. It looks real close on the copula.It does stand a little tall. If he would have shaved just a little on the lower ring and put his slots on it would have looked a little better.

It was kind of a novel idea so as not to scratch build a coupula.

By doing this he had to sacrafice a MK IV .


So what you may think of this custom he did make one model out of three.

The 21st Tiger , FoV Tiger and the 21st Mk IV. This is a pricey build

[812boys]

tell me about it I might give it a try though I picked up just the turret of a Panzer IV off of ebay a few months back and now I might know why.