1/18 Tiger

[pcsguy88]

This guy opens himself up for critism when he claims to be an expert and for all we know, he is. Maybe he's got a fetish for 1 of a kind obscure german patterns and has a pic. I do not take issue with that part. He posted the expert claim on Ebay, not here. Just like that guy who sells PTE Blackhawks as BBI ones. If he came here, posted the tank, claimed he was an expert and the pattern was authentic with no proof, then you guys have every reason to go after him. Just don't go looking for things to mock, it makes us all look bad.

I'm going to assume this is the same guy who did that German captured P-38? You guys tore that one apart too.

Now everyone who posted in this thread must run out, buy a new 1:18 toy and play with it in the corner while thinking about ways to strengthen the community.

[pcsguy88]

Actually, you really don't welcome "all comers". This board is pretty good at driving newbs away because they wanted to join in on custom fun and don't have well developed skills. Far more insults than constructive, helpful advice are given.

I must have missed the post on here where Jnewguy posted his work and claimed it was factual. It looks to me like you guys went searching offsite to find something to tear apart.

Flyboy, I know it's fun to jump on the bandwagon, but your age really shows thru. I'm glad you have found a great hobby that encourages you to study history and the sacrifices your grandfathers made for this country, but I don't think they did it so you could flame people who try to do something different from behind a monitor and keyboard.

I'm all for authentic patterns, but sometime you just have to step out and have some fun. Here is my example of doing this exact thing. Flame away, but I certainly had fun playing with my airbrush and trying to sharpen my skills.

http://forums.fighting118th.com/attachm ... 1256660295

That's funny, because the "Sewing Circle" forum threads (where you are an admin, no less) are full of invective aimed at other boards (especially Hisstank, but also SSHQ and Toyark). And then you have the gall to come here to lecture the readership on good manners? That's rich.

07-25-2009 12:17 AM pcsguy88
Hisstank it is. Glad you found your way here. I'm sure you will find it to be more pleasant than the Tank. We run an adult board, not a place for the kiddies to bitch.

http://forums.fighting118th.com/member.php?u=104

And, no, I don't think grandpa fought the nazis so Paris Hilton could be a skank either, but ain't that a little beside the point? Or do you think grandpa would approve of every single decision you have made in your life? ('Cause I know mine wouldn't approve of mine.) Besides, if one, as a teenager, can't even critizice a guy selling his wares on e-bay because a WWII veteran will start spinning on his grave (or something), then one might as well go to live with the Carthusian monks (which I'm sure it's lots of fun).

And, BTW, the custom you have linked can't be accessed because the topic/attachment/whatever is, err, PRIVATE? (Only the initiated can access it? Say it ain't so, Joe!)

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Ooopsy! I CAN'T HAS ZEKRIT ATTACHMINT?

To the best of my recollection, we have no ZEKRIT threads here, just private messages. Maybe I'm wrong and don't know the SSHQ secret handshake protocol.

This other board of which I speak shows little, if any, respect for the 'rivet counters' here, so maybe you should stop lecturing us on good manners. Just a thought.

You are right, I have little patience for rivet counters who shoot down any custom that isn't made by a proffesional modeler. There is a learning curve, a really large one when it comes to painting and detailing. But rivet counters will shred the beginner's work, discouraging him and eventually chasing him off. 1:16 guys seem to be a bit more helpful, offering constructive criticism (not all of them) and helping fuel the addiction.

Hisstank? Well, The Fighting118th came from there. We tried to get an expanded section on real 1:18 toys, but were denied. Our 1 thread there put up 1000 pages in a few months, so we needed a place to expand and some of the members happened to have the talent to make that happen. Hisstank doesn't want 1:18, SSHQ doesn't want Joes and we didn't want to chase eachother around 3 or 4 different boards.

Our issue with Hisstank is that they come to our site and then ban our members from Hisstank with no explanation or response. A lot of our members were banned from the Tank for making political statements against Obama, or statements about Hasbro. So yeah, a lot of negative gets said about that place, but at the same time, we still help the lost individuals who see pics of Joes in these amazing 1:18 vehicles and direct them to the information.

Like I said earlier, the 1:18 community needs to pull together if it is going to grow. SSHQ and Fighting118th are basically the only places to go for info and we both cater to different areas. SSHQ focuses on accuracy and Fighting118th focuses on the fun. Not everyone enjoys getting every rivet right. Not everyone enjoys a Joe hanging out of the hatch of a Bulldog. But for no reason should we look down on eachother for having different personal tastes. Just applaud and welcome that there is another dumbass willing to sacrifice his money, space and marriage supporting the hobby you love.

If you think I'm crazy, that's ok. I'm fine with that. If you think I'm wrong about 1:18, then just think about what the 1:35 guys say about 1:18. We are not modelers to them. We play with toys.

[King O' Fools]

Actually, I'll let you do the talking so there's no equivocation here:

This is one of admin pcsguy88's comments over at the other board:

Sounds great, we need all the help we can get right now filling this place up. We got sick of the kiddie Joe fans at Hisstank and the rivet counters at SSHQ, like the ones who bitched that you badass custom was too small. K-Tiger is the only riveter we tolerate. His wealth of knowledge makes it tolerable. I still can't believe this new place is less than a week old.

http://forums.fighting118th.com/showthread.php?p=2032

It's their board and they can do what the members/admins/owners there see fit, but maligning SSHQ only to come back to lecture the folks here (many of which are registered there!) with the pretext that we here are tearing Jnewboy a new one is kind of cheeky and disingenuous, wouldn't you agree?

IMO, this has nothing to do with rivet counting and everything to do with how you have an axe to grind against the rivet counters while pretending to defend Jnewboy from unfair criticism from said crowd. All while dissing SSHQ at the other board.

Am I missing something?

[pcsguy88]

I forgot you have to be registered to post or view attachments. That's standard for any board that uses an upload system.

We do have a secret society over there too. It's called access to our B/S/T threads. SSHQ uses a 6mo waiting period, but it does not work because I always had people emailing me to get around the rules anytime I sold something here. Better to just close it off and add people as they request or are referenced. We don't want members getting ripped off. We also keep the NSFW content behind closed doors for obvious reasons. You guys want want access to our super secret society? Roll on over and participate, plenty of members are already dual citizens. You guys feel like writing real reviews with standardized photos of your prized pieces? We would gladly post them on our frontpage. Good place to show off your customs too. Our only goal is to expand and bring in new 1:18 collectors to the hobby. I hope you can say the same.

[paulpratt]

Ambush pattern on Tiger I is inaccurate. You can speculate all you want, but the fact is that the Germans stopped production of Tiger Is before they introduced the "ambush" camo schemes.

And no, the crews couldn't have possibly applied the "spots" on the field. they didn't even have time to repair their vehicles when they broke down, I doubt they had enough time to add little dots all over the tank, when natural foliage is a better camoflauge anyway.

By late 1944 through the end of the war, the Germans stopped the practice of painting the camoflauge by crews in the field. They simply did not have the luxury of doing it in the field, when they were all being pushed back hard in all fronts. That is why German directives commanded that all camo jobs is to be done in the factory.

I would be careful using artist rendered color schemes on WWII. Some of them are extremely inaccurate. How do I know? They actually based some of their rendition to tanks that was well-photographed or was seen in WWII propaganda films.

Using your own picture example, I could quickly tell you that the Tiger #008, did NOT have huge spots like those, since Tiger # 008 of the S.SS.Pz.Abt. 501 is quite famous, because it was seen in the famous German propaganda video before the Ardennes offensive, and there are plenty of pics of #008 after it was abandoned near Trois Point.

I totally understand what you are saying on the inaccuracies of color plates like the one i showed. There is a lot of artistic liberties taken to these because of the gaps left between black and white photos, observational reports, half records, and just any amount of half information we have, like i pointed out above.

I read something about some of the contrast in black and white photography, due to the type of photographs they took (the film i suppose) also leaves a lot to be desired in the contrast area and some of the colors are completely lost
(Not saying there are dots there).

Those are awesome pictures by the way in your second post. Are those from published works, or personal? Has the paint job changed from the first to the second and third pictures? The last two look s if there are dots on the tank, small, which might be the basis for the color plate. Dunno. Such a huge discrepancy in size if they were.

Again, i posted the reference he cited, that is all i can do. If he is right or wrong, whatever to me, but he seems fairly certain that this is what is represented in whatever picture he is viewing. I would be interested in seeing the picture. It's a very expensive book.

[paulpratt]

interesting pic of a dot pattern, but much more dense.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k241/ ... pycopy.jpg

something here, odd.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k241/ ... thamb2.jpg

my favorite fun camo, the octopus scheme. this may be what he was trying to recreate, but probably wouldn't be accurate.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k241/ ... ct5zo2.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa1/ ... titled.jpg

i read that the paint paste washed off with fuel so the tank could be repainted when they switched combat areas? is that true?

party time pak

http://worldwartwozone.com/photopost/da ... PaK_38.jpg

[pcsguy88]

King, I have openly admitted my issue with rivet counters that are unwilling to accept any artistic interpretations. I openly stated that's what rubbed me the wrong way with Jnewguy. And I stated my issues with people who go out of their way to find things to shred. Some people here shredded the german P-38, I opened a thread saying how interesting it was.

http://forums.fighting118th.com/showthread.php?t=1172

Once again, just a difference in opinion. No hate, no flame war, the 118th looks at the work, sshq looks at the accuracy. Nothing wrong with either view, right? Seriously, not here to start shit, just felt like saying something in defense of Jnewguys talent. I don't care if it's 100% accurate if it actually looks good.

[pcsguy88]

doing the double for me also.

[paulpratt]

never experienced the dreaded double post before... creepy.

edited with useful information:

since i've talked with this guy briefly i asked him more detailed questions about the camo pattern and i also asked him about the teller mines, which also seem to be a point of contention (rightfully so).

[GooglyDoogly]

Again, i posted the reference he cited, that is all i can do. If he is right or wrong, whatever to me, but he seems fairly certain that this is what is represented in whatever picture he is viewing. I would be interested in seeing the picture. It's a very expensive book.

I have that book and I can honestly say that there's no photo of Das Reich Tiger Is in 1944 France that has that camo. Das Reich Tigers' camos are actually pretty unique, as the patterns are quite broad and wavy, unlike the dappled camo job usually seen on German tanks during that time period.

[GooglyDoogly]

interesting pic of a dot pattern, but much more dense.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k241/ ... pycopy.jpg

something here, odd.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k241/ ... thamb2.jpg

my favorite fun camo, the octopus scheme. this may be what he was trying to recreate, but probably wouldn't be accurate.

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k241/ ... ct5zo2.jpg

http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa1/ ... titled.jpg

i read that the paint paste washed off with fuel so the tank could be repainted when they switched combat areas? is that true?

party time pak

http://worldwartwozone.com/photopost/da ... PaK_38.jpg

I think there's a little misconception about the "ambush" scheme. It's a specific kind of camouflage, with specific patterns and colors (factories actually used stencils). Just because something is camouflaged with dots doesn't necessarily means that the tank was painted in ambush scheme.

here's a few quick read about German AFV camo and color schemes in WWII.
http://www.panzerworld.net/colours
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/articles/camo.htm
http://www.missing-lynx.com/panzer_facts.htm

The "octopus" scheme is quite unique, as there's only one instance that it was used. Judging from the history of that particular vehicle, it was simply a rushed desperate camo job by the factory, before it was driven straight from the factory into combat. It didn't even have combat tracks.

As for washing off camo? I don't think I've heard or read of that being done. Washing off whitewash or distemper, yes. But the olivegrun and rotbarun colors? I'm not so sure. I just don't see the point of re-doing the camo pattern, since a forest in northern France is basically the same as a forest in, say, Poland.

[Aslav]

TTT
(The Expert in everything connected to everything exept anything of any importance....... )

Gave me a chuckle

[pickelhaube]

Well I have read this post and have wanted to comment but.....

In the past I would say I have NOT insulted his work but have just said it was wrong.

He does have skills as a painter. That is true.

Some of his German paint schemes have been questionable. He had a passion for the squiggly paint jobs. The Germans used that a lot on their aircraft.

I have made comment of his captured P-38. The paint job was nice but on the wrong model P-38. The captured was an E not a J.

Our beloved 21st did the same thing with their " Co Ed " Sherman.
Correct paint wrong tank model. But that did not seem to matter. THEY SOLD THOUSANDS OF THEM.

I do not think that any of our members have run anybody off because of their lack of modeling skills. I could be wrong about that.

I know were everybody is going with this I agree with everybody on both sides of the fence.

I like banter. It is fun Were I am going with this I do not know. But I do know one thing.

There should be know animosity between the two 1/18 boards. That is just plain silly.

This needs stop.

[Threetoughtrucks]

After all this, the eBay Tiger received NO bids.

Maybe the seller didn't have enough Teller mines hanging on the tank. or the dots weren't big enough.....

TTT

[gliderdwm]

Threetoughtrucks wrote:

Maybe the seller didn't have enough Teller mines hanging on the tank. or the dots weren't big enough.....



Good one