update on JSI F-14

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:16 am

but comparing prices between JSI and Skyworks or even what people are paying on ebay is not a sound comparison.

There will always be a handful of people who are willing/able to pay high prices for something they want; in this case a 1/18 airplane model.

But you can't run a business on what a few people are willing to pay (unless you are a customizer like skyworks). You have to look at it for what x thousand people are willing to pay, where x is the minimum break even amount you need to sell.

Grabbing a plane that a company makes before it fails is not going to help this hobby thrive in the long run.....so i am expressing concerns over JSI's strategy, with the hope of seeing this hobby survive and thrive. I'm going to buy a tomcat too....but as the price seems to creep up and the options and features seem to get scaled back, it becomes less and less appealing and that is what i'm expressing concern about......that many buyers will balk at the price for what they are getting and JSI will go nowhere.

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:07 pm

Point taken:)

Bryce · Post by **Bryce** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:11 pm

Why are we still listening to Bad Cat about anything?

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:23 pm

aferguson wrote:but comparing prices between JSI and Skyworks or even what people are paying on ebay is not a sound comparison.

There will always be a handful of people who are willing/able to pay high prices for something they want; in this case a 1/18 airplane model.

But you can't run a business on what a few people are willing to pay (unless you are a customizer like skyworks). You have to look at it for what x thousand people are willing to pay, where x is the minimum break even amount you need to sell.

Grabbing a plane that a company makes before it fails is not going to help this hobby thrive in the long run.....so i am expressing concerns over JSI's strategy, with the hope of seeing this hobby survive and thrive. I'm going to buy a tomcat too....but as the price seems to creep up and the options and features seem to get scaled back, it becomes less and less appealing and that is what i'm expressing concern about......that many buyers will balk at the price for what they are getting and JSI will go nowhere.

I agree

dragon53 · Post by **dragon53** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 12:41 pm

With the JSI price creep, I have already changed my mind and won't buy the JSI Boyington F4U Corsair. The JSI F-14 has gone from a "must buy" to a "doubtful".
I already have the BBI "Daisy June" F4U Corsair and three Century Wings F-14s. Instead, I'm looking at Admiral's Mosquito and Sopwith Camel to see prices and release dates---I don't currently own a Mosquito or Camel.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:05 pm

...Regarding the high price tag. I figure - if a 1/18 autoart car is NZD$100+ then a 1/18 F-14 is going to be comparatively NZD$300+. Down here we have a V8 racing series and the 1/18 replicas from that are in the NZD$200+ price range. I just think that some people criticize wal-mart but still want the wal-mart price tag.

My 2 cents.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:01 pm

Greetings

The problem too is that there are way too many people on message boards on the Internet that are too willing to "stir the pot" on these items. People call somebody or talk with one person, hear a rumor, then automatically think it is true and post it on a message board. The problem is that this rumor may be from one person or one outfit, and it may be their opinion and not the actual truth. As Andy said once, the Internet is a pecuilar place.

I want an F-14 and will probably buy it. This is a large aircraft and I can't believe that people are already grumbling about the price. In my opinion, both the F-16 and the F-18 when they were first released were underpriced, and many of 21st's pieces should have been higher priced and would have been had it not been for being carried at Walmart. Remember, Walmart tries to undersell everyone, and will take losses to do it. No doubt Walmart wanted to move merchandise and cut prices to do so. Let's be clear, Walmart did that, not 21st.

Before we start discussing what JSI is going to do with the F-14 let us first wait for some more information to arrive. A prototype of the F-15 and F-14 and their nice display was certainly promising at the Toy Fair and the recent Weekend of Heroes. Let's wait and see if they come with a pilot and weaponry then if they don't we can complain. Personally, I think there is a lot of speculation here on this board about this and not very concrete information being posted. Until a retailer has a prototype and an order sheet on the JSI F-14, we don't know anything. And people that are in the know won't be talking

As far as Admiral goes, they've got to do something at this point. For the past few years we've seen a lot of talk from them and not a lot of product. They showed a Dauntless, they showed a Mosquito but nothing in the way of actual product. This to me is quite a distrubing trend with them. I think you either want to be in this business or don't want to be, and Admiral hasn't shown they want to be in the business in my opinion. They show a lot of product, but it never comes out or there are always reasons why it can't come out. Doesn't anyone but me see a trend here?

If JSI can get a prototype F-14 out in a few months, talk to dealers about it and actually have information on it to be ready for sale, then why can Admiral not have the Dauntless ready to go by now? That's an intriguing question. I'm not trying to knock Jason, I think he's great, but there comes a time when a company has to take a risk and get something out.

I'm sure in due time we will get more information on the F-14. Everyone just needs to chill a bit. The 10 posts a day by some about this a little over the top.

Corey

scbvideoboy · Post by **scbvideoboy** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:49 pm

As far as Admiral goes, they've got to do something at this point. For the past few years we've seen a lot of talk from them and not a lot of product. They showed a Dauntless, they showed a Mosquito but nothing in the way of actual product. This to me is quite a distrubing trend with them. I think you either want to be in this business or don't want to be, and Admiral hasn't shown they want to be in the business in my opinion. They show a lot of product, but it never comes out or there are always reasons why it can't come out. Doesn't anyone but me see a trend here?

I already commented on AT, they need to pick a production vendor and get it rolling, emough time has been spent on research and costs and trying to get the best deal possible. Sign the deal and get it rolling.

DH

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:06 pm

Instead of beating around the bush, how about a little outright blasphemy for ya- I don't feel an urge to spend 200-300 or whatever on this product; are some of you still in the infatuation stage? or has this decision been set in stone since the hallowed word (f-14) passed your lips in hushed awe?

I think that I have been spoilt way too long with box store prices and I am now an old dog unable to accept new pricing....

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:51 pm

I think many here need to chill. As some have said, you may be complaining over nothing.

I find it is funny how many here can spend almost $100 on a tiny 1/72 scale version of an aircraft, but gawk at the thought of spending just another $100, maybe a bit more, on a version of the same aircraft that will be 4 times larger and have almost all the same details....

I don't think JSI will have a problem selling the F-14 at a $200 to $300 price tag no matter how much anyone here on this board whines or thinks out loud about it. Pilots or no Pilots, moving control surfaces or no moving control surfaces.....the market is larger than just those on this board.

When the final price comes down, if you can't afford it or don't think it is reasonable, don't buy it. If the price is too much for what the majority of the market is willing to pay, like many here seem to believe, JSI should get the message. Then hopefully they will do something different or go out of business.

I wish them success and hope to see more 1/18 modern jet subjects from them and others in the future.

norman888 · Post by **norman888** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:42 pm

I'll just have to sell one of my old F-16's and that will pay for the F-14!!

To me Admiral is just a lot of hot air and any more talk from them about Mosquito's or F-4s or Dauntlesses or Sopwith Camels does not amount to anything. Showing what looks like the Tamiya Mosquito as some sort of reference is not legit to me either. If they don't get paid or are just in business as some sort of a hobby is immaterial-they need to produce product in order for us to buy it.

At least JSI has some prototype and anyone can see such a model is definately worth the $200-$300 range. Wal-Mart killed 21c and hopefully JSI won't try to make some deal with the devil.

Are you really into collecting 1/18th scale or only in it when you can buy them on clearance??? This type of model if definately geared toward the collector and not your "average" buyer.

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:38 pm

you???......me??? really into collecting 18th? Nah, not really- is it kind of like walking out of the the salvation army/goodwill store and into the local neiman-marcus establishment looking for a cheap set of ginsu knives? The world is changing and my wallet is staying the same.

Of course, it could be I just like prop jobs and early jets more, regardless of the price

sledgehammer · Post by **sledgehammer** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:21 pm

One has to remember the longer you wait on buying almost anything in 1/18th, especialy aircraft, the more you will pay later. I think we can almost all say that we have procrastinated on some thing only to finally get it later for much more than if we would have just bought the damn thing then. It is usually more expensive to wait in this hobby, its almost a Newton Law. Case in point Blue Angel F-18. Should have got it back when they first came out for under 100 bucks. Now--forget it too much. You snooze you loose. Get em nowww. I'll have the house refinanced if I have too.

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 7:35 pm

i love airplanes and i love this hobby. Lord knows i've been one of its biggest supporters for the last 8 1/2 years. But prices are simply getting too high. And a lot of it is completely unnecessarily. I see lots of companies preying on the price hike mentallity that arose when oil prices spiked. But the world is much the same as it was a few years ago now, and poorer in some ways and there is no justification for high gas prices, high shipping costs and toy prices that seem to be going up exponentially.

There is a big fat recession going on, oil demand is at a 15 year low....in fact there is such a surplus of it around that in a few weeks there won't be anywhere to store it. Gas prices up, up, up. High shipping costs inspite of package traffic being down something like 50%. Why? Largely in part to a mind set that was created by $147 a barrel oil. But the drivers for these high prices and sudden and dramatic price increases are gone and it's time for everyone, consumer and corporate alike....to adjust.

I'm not going to be made to feel guilty, or that i'm not a true enthusiast/collector, because i don't feel like forking out $300+ for a plane without a pilot. If there are those willing to shell out that kind of dough, and enough of them, then JSI will succeed. If not, then they won't. My bet is they won't, that the Tomcat will do ok but not great and that the F-15 and Su-27 will never see the light of day.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 8:38 pm

i honestly dont think we will see any of them -
other than a small run with a $350 + price tag

I can see myself putting out $150 for one - but $300? Honestly that takes the fun and joy out of why I jumped head first into this hobby.

Coreyeagle48 · Post by **Coreyeagle48** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:02 pm

Greetings

Anyone get the feeling this is becoming war over a toy with a suggested price? Really, we have no idea what this airplane is going to cost yet and what will be included with it. There is a lot of speculation and ideas, but very little fact to back it up.

I will wait until it gets closer to make a final decision on if the price is justified. Til then, the preorder stays

Corey

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:08 pm

Your right Corey, but what would this forum be if there wasn't a lot of bitching?

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:12 pm

Afrg the US dollar is weakening due to inflation, and due to the fact we know have no real energy policy, those two facts are the reason we are seeing a rise in Gas prices here.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:29 am

the US dollar only very recently (i'm talking in the last 6 weeks, has been weakening. Gas prices have been high pretty much since right after oil prices crashed last summer. I am very cogniscent of what the US dollar is doing since i convert a lot of US dollars to canadian on a regular basis.

The reason why gas prices are high, is because refining of it has been cut way back, in order to keep prices high (supply/demand). When oil company execs saw that people would pay high prices for gas and couldn't do much about it and even got sort of used to it, they saw this as an opportunity to keep prices high, even when oil went down to near $30 per barrel, by tightening supply up, covering up this fact with all kinds of sob stories about how expensive it is to manufacture etc. Funny just a couple of years ago when oil was $40 a barrel gas wasn't expensive to manufacture...

So one set of greedy executives caused this recession and another set are going to prolong it with artificially high energy costs.

Corey: i know nothing has been finalized. But based on the most current information we have, this is the way it is and this is what the discussion is about. Maybe this spirited discussion will even cause JSI to rethink their strategy, who knows. But just typing posts like 'wow a 1/18 f-14, cool beans' over and over, isn't really productive. A little healthy debate is, or is at least interesting.

WGP Klaus · Post by **WGP Klaus** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:00 am

I'll chime in on this one. I believe if the price does hit the $300.00 range, they'll likely sell out (if in fact they stick to the "Limited Release" claim) but most collectors will weigh the cost of one of their offerings against purchases of other items, and you'll find that nobody will buy multiples, like many of us do.

I'll purchase one of each, just to have them as I've always preferred the modern Aircraft to the WW2 offerings, but I won't be wasting that much money on multiples. As Motor Pool pointed out, they need a retailer (brick/mortar and e-tailer) here in this country to help push their products, but if we're talking having to pay shipping on such a large item from China, the cost will be absurd, and turn more folks off.

It will be interesting to see what happens when these babies are released.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:05 am

For $300 you can get this

http://www.bananahobby.com/1860.html

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:26 am

I'm still waiting to find the Hellcat and F-18 at TRU........
Some P-40 flying tigers were put on the floor a while back so its only time

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:45 am

Stug45 wrote:For $300 you can get this

http://www.bananahobby.com/1860.html

Look at what you would really have for that $300-

You still have to build it.

You then would have to do alot of coustom work, which many here can't do, to bring it up to par with what JSI, bbi, or Admiral is offering.

None of the features, like retractable gear, opening cockpit, removable ordinance come with R/C aircraft unless you buy an extra kit or customize.

Just no comparison in my book.

Seeing this post brings up something I find a little interesting. I've seen how some here have been willing to pay the $100 to $200 price tag for an r/c model that is not to scale, has to be built, and has none of the features that are being offered by JSI or Admiral just because there hasn't been one produced in 1/18 scale. No pilots, no retractable gear, no opening canopy, no detailed cockpit, and no ordinance (unless you pirate if off of an existing model) . Other than the possibility of not having pilots, the JSI F-14 is going to have all of these features and more already incorporated into it right out of the box (plus it is completely made of plastic) and there are people that don't think it is worth the same amount of money if not a bit more........

norman888 · Post by **norman888** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:38 am

aferguson wrote:the US dollar only very recently (i'm talking in the last 6 weeks, has been weakening.

While I highly dispute your version of gas execs setting prices you should know that inflation is going to skyrocket as more of this Government spending gets into our economy. When gas was "cheap' I didn't see anyone complaining that gas companies are not charging enough...have they only been trying to gouge the public since the Bush Administration???The value of the US dollar is going to tank. That is one of the reasons why gold, silver, oil etc. is going up.

$3.00 gas is where it should have been 10 years ago...we had our time of cheap gas, cheap food, cheap energy but it seems those days are gone.

You better buy one of these @$300 because you are going to regret it and if a VAT is passed for Healthcare you are really going to regret not buying one...or two

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:45 am

the r/c jets i have been buying pretty much all have cost about $110 or so plus shippig. About $145 shipped. On the low end my A-10 cost $65 shipped and the skyrc F-14 wil cost $225 shipped......but i havent bought it yet because of the price (and now because i'm waiting to see the JSI offering). The skyrc tomcat will no doubt come down in price...these r/c jets typically do. I only get the ones that are pretty much bang on 1/18 or very close. I didn't enjoy paying those prices but as i wanted to add the type to my collection, i did.

We're talking about double that cost for a JSI offering which will be far supperior in every way. But double is double.....that's a lot more money. Plus these things are going to weigh a ton. The only solution for me is to hang these big jets as i don't have anywhere near the shelf space for them. So when hanging, much of that extra detail is of less use because it's harder to see, on a regular basis. MY r/c jets look pretty good hanging up. From 5 feet away or more they look darn good. Do i feel like paying double for something which is a bit nicer? That's what i'm debating.

Personally i'm not that into modern jets that i feel like paying $300 a pop for them. $150 for one that is not quite is nice is more what i'm into. And it distresses me to see people so willing to pony up with big bucks for these 1/18 aircraft. It gives manufacturers carte blanche to jack up prices and cheap out on extra goodies like pilots and ordnance. And i don't think we should be on bended knee, thanking the toy gods that someone is willing to make them at any price. That's bunk.

However, this is all just so much hot air. The proof will be in the pudding when JSI releases them and sales roll in, or fail to roll in.