Can we be more negative?

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:21 pm

Seems the excitement about the upcoming JSI products was short lived. Most of what I read here is bitching and moaning about models that have not even been made yet. I sure hope the people who plan and make these models don't read this forum. I have never seen such bitching about things that are not even made yet.

Yoxford · Post by **Yoxford** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:34 pm

Very well said...If you do not have something positive to input about this very fragile hobby...(other than bitch about), well do us all the favor of holding your water & shut the fuck up.

VMF115 · Post by **VMF115** » Wed May 27, 2009 3:39 pm

Yup I agree.....

repeat after me "JIS is good for you and me"

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:02 pm

Haha, you really think the manufacturers care about (y)our input? In that case, there's a secret uranium enrichment facility (for peaceful purposes only, to be sure) up for sale in Pyonyang. Don't miss out. It's a steal!

C'mon, guys, tell us how we on this board single-handedly killed 1/18 all over again!

(Maybe we should rename this thread the "abortion of JSI".)

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:06 pm

Hi All,
Sometime I get a real chuckle out of reading these posts. Three weeks ago, everyone was lamenting the fact that 21st was headed down the tubes, BBI was nowhere to be found and no one was providing 1:18 scale vehicles and aircraft in any appreciable way. Then, a new entity steps forward in the form of JSI and everyone gets excited again only to be battered and bruised like you did with 21st year after year.

We all know JSI was the magician behind the curtain for 21st, who owns the factory that produced their products. They were likely deeded the molds to 21st's line of 1:18 scale products to compensate for nonpayment. We also know that JSI wont be able to sell these very same items into big box merchants such as Wal-Mart which means they have to work on a different business model that calls for less products at higher prices.

What is it that some of you dont get? Some of you are still drunk on closeout pricing from dealers able to sell 21st products for pennies on the dollar. Others recall the halcyon days when they could drive to a Wal-Mart and pickup a closeout MiG for say $20. Did you really think that the well would never run dry and that these unrealistic prices would last forever? Did you truly expect a new company such as JSI to sell you a plane with all the bells and whistles at a price point that would put them out of business?

I'm not looking to lecture or castigate anyone since you are still entitled to your opinions, but some of you really need to take a course in business 101 before you start getting up on your soapbox and demanding that these manufacturers submit to your demands or else. You're really not doing anyone here any justice and, quite possibly, could give a company such as JSI reason to rethink offering new 1:18 scale products in an economic climate such as this.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:14 pm

I agree with the point of there being alot of bitchin, but this is a forum and everyone can voice their opinion, welcome or not. What I find hard to understand is that some wont pay walmart prices so they wait till they go on sale (understandable), then still more just dont buy items until they get to Ebay and then at super high prices! I love these vehicles. I collected Joes and SW, and still do when I have the dough. One thing I always wanted was more realistic vehicles for the troops. Now I can have almost any vehicle I want, so I dont bitch about the Quality, quantity or the price. When I started collecting, I was afraid to pay 40 bucks for a huey, now I save up and pay 150 for an F18 without blinking! I'll pay 200 for the 14, hell, I preordered the thing for 300 when Kawai first offered them. I'll have my F14/15 and Chinese fighter at 600$ And maybe I'll get a couple more for when they go on Ebay for 8-900$.

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:15 pm

Sorry...DP

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:26 pm

We did a great job in chasing Jason away. Hell, why not do the same to JSI?

digger · Post by **digger** » Wed May 27, 2009 4:29 pm

Yoxford wrote:Very well said...If you do not have something positive to input about this very fragile hobby...(other than bitch about), well do us all the favor of holding your water & shut the ---- up.

Where were you the last two years? Maybe you've expressed this, but you were certainly drowned out.

gburch · Post by **gburch** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:08 pm

I'm a complete newbie, and I shouldn't even be entitled to an opinion, so naturally I'll express one. From what I've read these last couple of months, it looks like the late 90s through this last year or so saw the birth and near-death of a market for good quality 1/18 finished models that happened because of the availability of low-cost Chinese manufacturing and super-efficient big-box outlets. The second part of that appears to have collapsed, and now the remaining manufacturers are going to have to see if they can figure out a new way to make and sell the product -- probably at a new price point. It wouldn't surprise me if the manufacturers don't yet really know what the economics of this new market will be: How many units can they sell over what period of time and with what marketing costs? Until they know that, I'm guessing the prices we're seeing quoted for the first JSI offerings are just a first pass at trying to figure out whether they can make a go of it. If they weren't offering the three wholly new jets, I'd be guessing that the whole current business model was based on having the tooling and idle factories and just seeing what might come of it. The fact that the three big new jets seem real makes me think they're willing to commit to at least a couple of years of trial and error. But I think it will be just that -- trial and error.

In that environment, it's hard to work up any angst about not getting what we want at the prices we think we ought to be able to get it at. How do we know? How do they? It'll take a couple of years before they -- or we -- know what a "fair price" for these products in the environment of purely marketing on the web to enthusiasts is.

My two cents ...

iflabs · Post by **iflabs** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:10 pm

popeye357 wrote:What I find hard to understand is that some wont pay walmart prices so they wait till they go on sale (understandable), then still more just dont buy items until they get to Ebay and then at super high prices!

LOL, I sometimes wonder if we don't act upon what's good for us.

A company releases these super awesome models but buyers hold out expecting a price drop because supply is still plentiful.

Lack of sales signals the company to stop production or runs it out of business.

Low second hand supply of models appear and buyers end up paying nearly 2x of original cost.

Complaining ensues...

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed May 27, 2009 5:26 pm

This forum is a place for the free exchange of information and opinion. If members are excited about something or distressed by it, they have every right to express their opinions. Out of courtesy and good faith, the other board members should respect these opinions as long as they are in line with proper forum etiquette. Expressing a positive attitude about JSI - or not - is perfectly acceptable. Public mood swings, though annoying, are perfectly natural in this sort of public sphere. Look at the American people as a whole. One month they are "gung ho" about something, the next month they are opposed to it. Same thing happens here...

I will admit being overly negative about something gets tiring after a while, but so does being overly positive. There used to be this 21c is the greatest thing ever attitude on this forum, even when the competition was turning out superior products. Was it a fickle attitude? Most certainly it was, but everyone had the right to express it who wanted to.

I do not think we need to always be positive about anything and everything in the 1:18 scale, as quite often there is reason to be critical. What is needed is a balanced approach.

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Wed May 27, 2009 6:11 pm

I will say the M1's, shermans, and bradleys seem to be moving off the Target shelves pretty quickly in my area -

and they restock them pretty frequently -

flyboy_fx · Post by **flyboy_fx** » Wed May 27, 2009 7:20 pm

cornbreadfred wrote:We did a great job in chasing Jason away. Hell, why not do the same to JSI?

WE DID? nooo come back i was a good boy

i can has sum ofs yur airoplanes?

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Wed May 27, 2009 7:31 pm

Mike with BBI news left a LONG time ago....

P47faninchicago · Post by **P47faninchicago** » Wed May 27, 2009 7:55 pm

I for one am extremely happy that JSI is out there and producing. I plan to buy gobs and gobs of their products. Those cheap prices 21st century charged obviously didn't do them much good and didn't engender any loyalty with the moaners. From the posts I have seen the ones who moan the most about JSI's price are the same ones who were dancing on 21st century's grave. Cheap prices directly led to 21st's quality control issues. A $39.99 model IS going to have quality control problems. If you don't want quality problems the price HAS to be raised. If you only want to spend $5.00 for a night out don't be pissed when you are eating your Happy Meal.

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:00 pm

A couple of thoughts...

How many active members frequent this board?

How many markets of how many potential customers in how many countries are the major manufacturers targeting with their products?

Are any of the major 1/18 manufacturers really going to make critical business decisions or cancel product offerings based on what is posted on this forum?

Jeffrey

Post by **aferguson** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:08 pm

i think they would take what is said here into consideration, as the members are representative of the most gung ho collectors in this hobby.

lightning2000 · Post by **lightning2000** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:28 pm

Hi,
Very well put, P-47. There seems to be a small yet vocal minority that seem to moan and groan about everything and like nothing better than to try to get everyone up in arms in support of their cause. Geez, give the manufacturer a chance before you bash 'em for every reason under the sun.

If I were a manufacturer in today's global economy, you can surely bet I would monitor any forum having to do with my products to gauge public opinion and perhaps change things around to cater to the needs of my target audience. When you're sinking hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars into a new range of products aimed at a small segment of the hobby, you want to get all your ducks in a row to make sure your line is a hit.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

cornbreadfred · Post by **cornbreadfred** » Wed May 27, 2009 8:31 pm

Well put lightning2000.

exether_mega · Post by **exether_mega** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:52 pm

Very well said lightning2000. Common guys, give JSI a chance.

phil

Jesse James · Post by **Jesse James** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:16 pm

Honestly I'm not a fan of "complaining about complaining" on forums... It's the internet, and generally the "bad" is what gets conversation going more than the good... That said, I think it's fine for people to cite their disappointment in some ways.

Armor fans are disappointed they don't see new stuff, just variations... WW2 plane guys wanted to see a new WW2 plane, and so on...

For me, my gripe is price hiking out the whazzoo, but these are perhaps destined for a B&M retailer which I think will sell them at significantly more reasonable pricing.

At the same time JSI's not even put anything out yet, so it's a little premature to condemn anything they've got going on so far. I think there's obvious logic in those scratching their heads at certain straight re-releases (Quad .50, etc.), but it's so early right now... I'm not gonna fault them on anything, yet.

The retooled armor is outstanding though. To me, that's as good as new and I can't wait to pick up some new WW2 items.

If figures turn up to be something new or even older stuff redecoed (Falschims would do fantastically if they all were given the same smocks, preferably D-Day ones) to form a good solid single wave, but whatever... I'm just excited SOMETHING is there to look forward to besides FOV's stuff and the unknown of BBI.

snake · Post by **snake** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:34 pm

Every member here should be extremely happy that another "company" has decided to enter the 1:18 market.Without JSI we would would have virtually no new releases on the horizon.Other companies may or may not fill the void left by 21C,but JSI is actively doing second releases,of the best sellers.That is a smart move.Most of you may have these versions already,but they have to release models that will be a sure hit.After they can establish a business model that will allow them to take more of a chance with the other types.
The Wallmart days are over.I for one missed out,and have had to pay Ebay prices for the last 3 years.Even those were very reasonable,up until the last 6 months,or so.
I echo the sentiments in this post that if you want a new release of 1:18 it will cost you more,and if you don't like the price,don't buy it.
The market will figure out the right price point,and if the cheaper members here don't want to pay the market value,then they wll lose out.
I am hoping that the F-14,F-15,and Su27 get made.
I will support JSI,as long as they do not disappoint with quality.I hope the majority of you do too.

Jay · Post by **Jay** » Thu May 28, 2009 12:30 pm

..ya know, I welcome JSI with open arms, and i'm not perfect myself......I just......I just think we need more cow bells

Pa Deuce · Post by **Pa Deuce** » Thu May 28, 2009 1:05 pm

I'd just like to beat the dead horse once more...

higher prices.... BLAAAAHblahblahblahblah...

unecessary modifications.... blahblahblahblahblahblahblah.......

JSI won't listen to me.... blahblahblahblahblahblahblahblah......

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Can we be more negative?

Can we be more negative?

1:18 Scale Products

people have been only bitching for a while around here..

1:18