Admiral's new F-86 Sabre

[Airacobra]

Thanks for the information Jason, it's nice to get an inside view of the industry. As for repaints, bring em on. I own every one of Admiral's 1/18 scale aircraft except for Patricia and the Blank F-86. I just never had a shot at those two. Your Jolly Roger F-86 was the first Admiral purchase I made and it was your customer service that kept me coming back for more. My F-86 was shipped without a few pieces, and when I asked about it on this forum you didn't hesitate in sending me the remainder of the pieces. That single act of customer service made me a fan of Admiral for as long as you produce aircraft in 1/18 scale. I have two SBD's on pre-order from way back when and I plan to keep that order. I can't wait for the Skyraider, and I am really excited about the WWI aircraft. Take your time, there are plenty of us here who will wait.

[Grilledcheese]

Jason's point about the diminishing possibility of producing new models is disappointing, of course, but not surprising. In the best of times a niche market like ours will never make a company wealthy, and in the worst of times (like now) is a non-starter. Jason has always been upfront with us, and I have no desire to see Admiral Toys bankrupted simply because I wanted a new toy.
Have a brewski for me Jason, and best of luck in whatever you and Admiral decide to do.
All things considered, y'all done good. And if those WWI kites or any of the other planes do get made, I'm there.



Jeffrey

[Booga]

Sweet paint scheme! It's really cool that we still have one manufacturer thats putting out stuff.

[art2614]

I like it and would buy it but it sucks that 21st also made this same model so we get almost twice as many repaints. I also understand about repaints is what makes a company money but why not do a model that no one has made before? Then you can have all the repaints you want to do and as long as its what collecters want they will sell like hotcakes. A F15 would be awsome to get made and you can do as many repaints as you want and they will sell. Look at the F18 there are like 5 repaints and they couldnt make enough of them and now are going for $300 +

[Birddog]

Your out of line Sarge. Don't try to piss on the one manufacturer that has always been upfront and forthcoming with information about his business.
As for me and others, I'm sure, we are waiting patiently for any new releases that may come in the future. Your opinion is noted about the industry, but don't make it a personal attack against a great guy and his business struggling against great odds to survive.

It's a dumb ass responce like Sarge's that keep people like Jason from giving us updates. I don't blame Jason, I would not come back in here either.

You said it guys....

Admiral Toys has been up front and keeping us in the loop on all that they can. We have to keep in mind what is going on outside of our hobby, such as the economy. Banks aren't handing out money as freely as they used to and investments in toys are not high on their approval list.

Let's also not forget that the big delay with the Dauntless was due to opinions expressed by many right here on this board. We're are talking about a major re-design of the model to accomodate the look many here said it was lacking. What sucks is that some here seem to be thoughtless about this. I don't re-call any of the other 1/18 manufacturer's giving us that type of input.

If we want the 1/18 hobby to succeed, we need to be supportive of those who are trying to keep it alive and not be so damn critical. Thanks to Jason and Admiral Toys openness on this board, I've learned a lot and come to understand a lot more of what goes into making the models we treasure. Something that makes me appreciate them even more even if they do or will carry a much higher price tag...

It also gives me that much more respect for the price a garage based customizer charges for their limited creations too.

THANK YOU JASON FOR WHAT YOU AND ADMIRAL TOYS ARE DOING FOR THIS HOBBY!!!

[MCalamari]

You have been spoiled by mass liquidation at the mass retailers and the liquidation of companies liquidating the last of their efforts.

I have a lot to do right now so I will get back on my soap box another day.

Regards,
Jason

Hey, I don't mind the soap box talk. I think it is relevant and interesting.

And I do agree that we are spoiled.

That said, would it help to pre-order Hartmann from your web site? A PM would be fine if a response really is a violation of the forum rules.

The reason I ask is there is a metal miniature company in Australia that used to *require* that 100 models be prepaid prior to them making the cast and creating the figures.

Anyhow, Hartmann or Temptation ... both are repaints that I'd pay the retail price for.

[MCalamari]

I like it and would buy it but it sucks that 21st also made this same model so we get almost twice as many repaints.

In the case of the Me-262, I actually love setting up my Yellow 7 with my White 8 and White 7 on my lawn.

In the case of the F-86, 21c may have made something like the German CL-13 *later*, but I didn't even touch 21c's F-86 until I first had the Admiral plane (even then my 21c F-86 is actually my brother's and lives at his house).

With repaints, he buys some, I buy some ... and sometimes we swap planes. At this point, with small kids, his planes do not see daylight, and mine rotate in and out.

[norman888]

Not a single wholesaler or retailer, including Walmart and Toys “R” Us will sign a guaranteed purchase order or pay for the production up front

I don't think I would sign a guaranteed purchase order either and I love these models!!

Lets face it, this is a niche hobby and trying to get it into the "mainstream" and by doing so, having to deal with Wal-Mart is just like playing Russian Roulette.

The shear size of 1/18th scale makes it very diffucult for most of us to collect and display these things (horders excepted). It's very hard for a "normal" consumer to justify buying 4 Fw-190s (which I have) or 5 P-38s (which I have) or 5 F-86s (which I have)........!!

[art2614]

The shear size of 1/18th scale makes it very diffucult for most of us to collect and display these things (horders excepted). It's very hard for a "normal" consumer to justify buying 4 Fw-190s (which I have) or 5 P-38s (which I have) or 5 F-86s (which I have)........!! [/quote]

Horder!!!!

[Jason of Admiral Toys]

No matter which way you go "GOOD LUCK". I enjoyed your airplanes.[/quote]

Thank you for the kind words.

Regards,
Jason

[ExC17load]

Jason, for my own post, which you quoted, please dont take it wrong. I fully support and respect Admiral and especially the products your company produces. I myself have the two Me-162s, German CL-13, Patricia Sabre and the Jolley Roger Sabre. I consider your products to be superior in quality all around. I would gladly plunk down my money for the Hartman Sabre, the El Diablo and the newest one. I have no problem with repaints either, its how things have to be done.

I am also looking forward to the Spad and the Dauntless. I just cant get excited about them until they are actually out and available. But, being a student of business management and economics, I also understand how this all works. I just wanted everyone to just keep things in perspective.

Anyway, I salute you and your company both! Keep at it, because outside of expensive hand-mades, Admiral is the only player currently in the game, and with the quality of products it produces, Im quite fine with that!!

[Jason of Admiral Toys]

I like it and would buy it but it sucks that 21st also made this same model so we get almost twice as many repaints. I also understand about repaints is what makes a company money but why not do a model that no one has made before? Then you can have all the repaints you want to do and as long as its what collecters want they will sell like hotcakes. A F15 would be awsome to get made and you can do as many repaints as you want and they will sell. Look at the F18 there are like 5 repaints and they couldnt make enough of them and now are going for $300 +

I like where your mind is at my friend. I think we are in a world where duplications are not an issue. BBI and AT talk a lot about what is coming out. I hope the future of this scale is large!! Pun intended

Regards,
Jason

[Jason of Admiral Toys]

Not a single wholesaler or retailer, including Walmart and Toys “R” Us will sign a guaranteed purchase order or pay for the production up front

I don't think I would sign a guaranteed purchase order either and I love these models!!

Lets face it, this is a niche hobby and trying to get it into the "mainstream" and by doing so, having to deal with Wal-Mart is just like playing Russian Roulette.

The shear size of 1/18th scale makes it very diffucult for most of us to collect and display these things (horders excepted). It's very hard for a "normal" consumer to justify buying 4 Fw-190s (which I have) or 5 P-38s (which I have) or 5 F-86s (which I have)........!!

Good points!! I think the answer is simple... You need to buy more!

Just kidding. I cannot express to you how much we wish to offer you a new release every month. We actually have a new release lined up for each month. Lets just say that we are 5 years behind on those releases. However, we have the models lined up and they will be great... if... we are still around...!

Regards,
Jason

[ExC17load]

One a month?
To whom do I write a check? Do you take plastic?

[mkxiv]

Jason,

From a retailers perspective this new scheme is not very attractive. While I like the Nose Art, another yellow-banded Sabre is beating a dead horse. Below I have attached a picture of an early Korean War F-86 Flown By Well Known Glen Eagleston.

Gabby Gabreski also flew F-86s in this scheme. The aircraft was very similar to the one above but had "Gabby" on the nose.

I would like to see either a Gabby, or the Eagleston produced in the 500-750 ranges and numbered like the Patricia. Price them where they need to be even if they are $100+.

Making a small production and numbering each one would give myself as a retailer an incentive to stock as many as possible.

From AT's perspective this gives you a guaranteed sellout of each production as long as you choose the right scheme.

At these small numbers the market could handle 8+ releases a year.

Just my 2 cents,

Isaiah Jones

www.MilitaryToyShop.com

[NWarty]

A "Gabby" would be fantastic!!!

<-----See Avatar

[Dauntless]

Those would be cool, but I can't pass up a naked girl nose art with a possible figure.

Sure we got the yellow trimmed Sabres with the Patricia II and Jolly Roger of which I have both, but somehow the yellow works better on this one.

[mkxiv]

I like the scheme, the Lady is great. My point is the market has been saturated with similar schemes. If the bulk of my customers are to buy another Sabre it is going to have to be much Different than the others. By adding a historical pilot's paint scheme to the mix we are setting the production up for a sell out.

[Dauntless]

Good point. Especially former WWII aces we have Thunderbolts for (well not a 1:18 for Gabby but a 1:32) but well known pilots nonetheless.

The release of the Hartman would soften us up a little better me thinks.

[sarge]

Your out of line Sarge. Don't try to piss on the one manufacturer that has always been upfront and forthcoming with information about his business.
As for me and others, I'm sure, we are waiting patiently for any new releases that may come in the future. Your opinion is noted about the industry, but don't make it a personal attack against a great guy and his business struggling against great odds to survive.

It's a dumb ass responce like Sarge's that keep people like Jason from giving us updates. I don't blame Jason, I would not come back in here either.

You said it guys....

Admiral Toys has been up front and keeping us in the loop on all that they can. We have to keep in mind what is going on outside of our hobby, such as the economy. Banks aren't handing out money as freely as they used to and investments in toys are not high on their approval list.

Let's also not forget that the big delay with the Dauntless was due to opinions expressed by many right here on this board. We're are talking about a major re-design of the model to accomodate the look many here said it was lacking. What sucks is that some here seem to be thoughtless about this. I don't re-call any of the other 1/18 manufacturer's giving us that type of input.

If we want the 1/18 hobby to succeed, we need to be supportive of those who are trying to keep it alive and not be so damn critical. Thanks to Jason and Admiral Toys openness on this board, I've learned a lot and come to understand a lot more of what goes into making the models we treasure. Something that makes me appreciate them even more even if they do or will carry a much higher price tag...

It also gives me that much more respect for the price a garage based customizer charges for their limited creations too.

THANK YOU JASON FOR WHAT YOU AND ADMIRAL TOYS ARE DOING FOR THIS HOBBY!!!

Don't read into my thread any thing negative. All I meant was it's an uphill climb for anybody due to the economy and how the wholesalers and retailers are cutting way back. I didn't mean any dis-respect to Jason or his company. If he goes by the wayside who else do we have? And if he manages to come through this mess then I wish him all the best of luck.

[Jason of Admiral Toys]

Jason,

From a retailers perspective this new scheme is not very attractive. While I like the Nose Art, another yellow-banded Sabre is beating a dead horse. Below I have attached a picture of an early Korean War F-86 Flown By Well Known Glen Eagleston.

Gabby Gabreski also flew F-86s in this scheme. The aircraft was very similar to the one above but had "Gabby" on the nose.

I would like to see either a Gabby, or the Eagleston produced in the 500-750 ranges and numbered like the Patricia. Price them where they need to be even if they are $100+.

Making a small production and numbering each one would give myself as a retailer an incentive to stock as many as possible.

From AT's perspective this gives you a guaranteed sellout of each production as long as you choose the right scheme.

At these small numbers the market could handle 8+ releases a year.

Just my 2 cents,

Isaiah Jones

www.MilitaryToyShop.com

Dear

Unfortunately there were no F-86Es painted in the black banding. The early Sabres such as the F-86A would have the black banding. From my research the only colors the US F-86E would adorn is the yellow and black banding. We released the CL-13 because they were painted in camouflage and we will release the Hartmann because of its unique paint scheme. As you know, the collectors are very particular about their choices and usually shy away from schemes that are not on the correct variant of aircraft.

Furthermore, these will be produced in limited numbers. Unfortunately releasing a limited run is not as easy as it would seem. It is an economy of scales in China, the less you produce of a product the more it will cost. This may be shocking to everyone on this site, but, producing 500 aircraft will take the same amount of time and man hours as producing 3,000. It is the time that is takes to change the molds in the injectors, change the paint in the guns, produce the tampo screens, produce the spray masking tools and setting up a production line that is the same for 500 or 3,000. The actual production of 3,000 units (after all the above discussed steps are taken) can take as little as three days. Therefore we utilize a method of production that allows for the production of limited runs and not incur the larger price for production. Here is how it is accomplished:

We find paint schemes that have the same primary color. In this case silver. We inject 3,000 pieces and apply the primary color to each aircraft. Then we move all the silver aircraft to tampo printing for the warning labels, universal insignias etc. At this point our sold silver aircraft used by many to paint their own aircraft are pulled from the line. The Hartmann will be pulled out of the line before the yellow and black bands are placed on the model. This is the bulk of the work and cost. We now have finished aircraft painted with all the universal markings. Then we move a fraction of these aircraft to a separate line to have the Temptation nose-art, end numbers and squadron insignia place on the aircraft. The same goes for the El Diablo nose art, unique markings, insignia and end numbers placed on the aircraft. And the Hartmann is finished with the tulip nose art, tail and the German warning labels are applied.

This is how we produce four aircraft in the same production line. It cuts our costs and allows the savings to be passed onto you. The trick is finding a set of paint schemes that do not diverge in such a way that requires unique spray masking tools or a vast difference in decoration. That is why we chose the proposed liveries. If you look closely at the aircraft chosen you can see at which stages in production each will be removed and you will begin to see the distinct characteristics that unite the schemes. Unfortunately, it is these similarities that you have pointed out in your original post. We are confident that we can sell each scheme quickly. There will not be enough of each model produced to fill all the orders of retailers. We are prepared to place a pro rata distribution on all orders, unless an individual retailer secures an exclusive.

Regards,
Jason

[Dauntless]

Thanks for the insight on the process. Was a bit curious on how it's done.

[mkxiv]

Jason,

I understand that the black and White banded scheme was for the most part only on A models. It would be nice to have this scheme represented. I don't see you guys ever re-tooling for an A model so the only chance is to paint an E like an A.

Can you or Jim contact me when you get the time?

Isaiah

[Spudkopf]

How about considering some minor retooling to revitalise the products in conjunction with the repaints, as an “extreme example” that would require fairly minimal tooling you could alter the CL-13 to be a CAC CA-27 Sabre by making the 6 x 0.5 gun bays a separate piece that then could be swapped in and out with twin 30mm canons version (see pictures below) , choosing a more radical alteration by replacing the whole nose section would allow even the F86D to be made while still retaining much of the original tooling.





With Me 262 if the nose was made in to a separate piece you could get:

Me 262 A-1a/U2 (single seat night fighter only needs the bomb racks, drop tanks and ariels)
Me 262 A-1a/U3 or Me 262 A-5a (reconnaissance versions)
Me 262 A-1a/U5 (six gun nose)
Me 262 A-2a (Sturmvogel / Bomber only needs the racks and bombs)
Me 262 A-2a/U2 (two seater with prone bomb aimer glazed nose, could also then be coupled with second retooled 262 body to create a what if Mistel version)
Me 262 A-1a/U4 (50mm cannon version)

Just a though seeing that you have already placed such a large investment into the original tools why not squeeze as much out of them as possible, at the same time increasing the re-paint potential.

Or maybe use some re-tooling to simply refine the models as they are, gaining some details that may not have been cost effective the first time around.

I am sad to learn that even the CA promotion has been less that stellar, I jumped on it even though I knew I’d be in the poo at home.

Finally does the “large!! Pun intended” suggest something big, maybe multi-engined may be a future prospect?

[ExC17load]

Thanks for the information Jason. We are ready for whatever you can get out!