P47 recovered from German Lake.

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:09 pm

This link takes you to a story, in German but with pictures,,about the recovery.

http://www.juhe.at/presse/article/Traun ... 89835.html

INTREPER · Post by **INTREPER** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:14 pm

Wow! I wonder when this happened. Could not have been too long ago judging by the automobiles seen in the pics

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:33 pm

Thats cool! The plane is actually in pretty good shape, it seems, judging from the pictures. It looks like a P-47D, judging by the canopy. What is even better is that the extensive nose art, squadron markings and national insignis are still present! I can read a little German, and I think the article says that they plan to restore the plane and perhaps take it back to the US. Now thats a great restoration project!

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 12:11 am

Awesome! You know how rare combat vets are in the warplane community?? Judging from the plane, the pilot ditiched it. Too bad I can't see the markings on it to determine whose plane it is. The great thing is that it was in fresh water which is perfect for preserving the aluminum and steel fittings. It looks just like one of the Great Lakes birds. Excellent! Keep those waterborne aircraft coming!

-Ski

ps. If you want the page translated, just copy and paste the URL onto the Google search page. Click search and when it pops up, just hit translate. Tman was 100% correct. It is to be restored in Austria and returned to the US..... Cool as hell.....

Emil Frand · Post by **Emil Frand** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:20 am

More info:
http://www.snowtec.at/images/pics/13060 ... see_42.jpg

"Dottie May"

2/Lt. Henry G. Mohr, Jr. of the 405th fG 511th

Do a google on the pilots name more info

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:34 am

More info:

http://www.armyairforces.com/forum/m_76 ... .htm#76845

Plane ditched on VE day, apparently.

Emil Frand · Post by **Emil Frand** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:11 am

and...........
http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=489252

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:39 am

Kinda makes you wonder what else is in the lakes in Europe.. Awhile back they recovered an He-111 from a lake in Finland??? I believe.. It was also very well preserved..

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 2:16 pm

New pictures in the original link in case you missed them. Scoll to the bottom picture to see the original bird:

http://www.juhe.at/presse/article/Traun ... 48242.html

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 2:34 am

Thanks for the info. It's great to see the plane in it's original shape as well. Unfortunately, they damaged the wings pulling the thing out. Regardless, what a great find.....

-SKi

INTREPER · Post by **INTREPER** » Fri Jun 17, 2005 7:22 am

I can only hope that they are able to restore it back to it's original condition. Parts for those babies aren't just laying around anymore.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:55 am

INTREPER wrote:I can only hope that they are able to restore it back to it's original condition. Parts for those babies aren't just laying around anymore.

Well the word "restoration" is a very relative term. Many restorations you see are almost completely new manufactured planes. With all of the damage and corrosion, a lot of parts have to be remanufactured using the originals as templates. If you look at the Beaufighter being restored at Duxford, I can almost guarrantee you that at least 70% of that plane is new. I'd like to see how many original parts are being used on the Reading P-61. Not many! Britt can probably tell you what % has to be original for an aircraft to be considered a restoration compared to a replica. I forgot, but I thought it was something like 70% or something.

So if somebody sneers at one of the new manufactured FW-190s, this fact should be taken in consideration.......

I'd like to see them keep the original finish of the P-47 on certain parts like the nose art and the stars and bars while refinishing the rest of the plane. Now that would be cool.

-Ski

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 8:42 pm

Does anyone know where this plane will be displayed once restored?

Post by **p51** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:11 pm

Britt can probably tell you what % has to be original for an aircraft to be considered a restoration compared to a replica. I forgot, but I thought it was something like 70% or something

I believe you are correct, but it might be smaller % than that. I seem to recall a few warbirds that have about 30% and they are considered warbirds. I believe it depends on how rare the aircraft is. Fighter Rebuilders, debateably the BEST aviation restoration facility in the world, located at Chino does many many warbirds every year. Right now they are restoring a YP-59A Airacomet to flying status, a Russian Built Japanese Zero, Bearcat, and many more. Most of the warbirds have to have many of the parts redone and only the internal structure still left. I was surprised that 90% of Glacier Girl (pictured bellow, as you all know she was found in the ice) was original. I figured she was almost totally rebuilt. I guess there's a lot more on warbirds that they can actually salvage than most people think. Just takes some work and even maybe a bit of reenforcement. Of course the goal is to use as much as possible from the original plane.
We have SO many 'one of a kind' aircraft a the planes of fame museum it's staggering. We have a crashed Betty Bomber. A complete (non-flyable) Japanese J2M Raiden. We have a J8M1 Shushi (rare Japanese version of the ME-163), we have the only He-162A-1 Volksjager that I believe is left. Heck, if you want to talk warbirds, we have the only all original flying A6M5 Zero in the world along with the only flying P-47 Thunderbolt with a razorback! I could go on and on and on about all the super rare aircraft we have. Many of them that are currently flying started as restorations. Wee Willy II looks like a war veteran P-51D Mustang. She's owned by Steve Hinton (famous pilot). But, the Mustang isn't original. She's parts of various Mustangs, but mostly the once Reno Racer P-51 called 'Red Baron.' She crashed as Steve was flying her at the races (he came out okay) and the Mustang was written off. So they decided to use other Mustang parts and turn her into a wartime P-51D Mustang. She's considered a warbird as well and I have no idea what's left of her original Mustang structure that hasn't been rebuilt.

Photos of all the aircraft mentioned:

Glacier Girl:

YP-59A Airacomet:

Crashed Betty Bomber:

J2M Raiden:

Bearcat:

He-162A-1 Volksjager:

J8M1 Shushi (ME-163 is a wood Replica):

A6M5 Zero:

P-47G Thunderbolt:

P-51D Mustang 'Wee Willy II':

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 11:46 pm

Great pics Britt! So they are going to restore a Aircomet to airworthy condition??????? Neat! Where did they get it from? I know there was one that I saw back in 1989 at Harold Warp's Pioneer Village in Minden Nebraska, one of those roadside attractions. Me and my wife had just got married back in Wisconsin and was driving out to Travis AFB. I was shocked to see it hanging! Is this the same plane??

There are a couple other He-162s around. The one I saw is at the RAF museum at Hendon. Cool little plane. The Raiden is priceless! Was it at Willow Grove at one time?

Yeah, you peaked my interest!

-Ski

Post by **p51** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:34 am

I believe the YP-59 was picked up from a scrap yard somewhere and wasn't in all that great shape. It will be restored to flying status. that photo is actually quite old, they have gotten a LOT of progress on it. It will be the first P-59 to fly since just about post-WW2 I heard. I'll get more info on that and the Raiden as soon as I can. I know for the fact that's the only Raiden left. I wasn't sure on the HE-162. I know the one He-162 that you see in the photographs most often is the Planes of Fame's one. I heard there may be some plans in the future to get her flying. We have a LOT of planes to restore before that including the museum's B-17G Flying Fortress 'movie star'. I believe the Raiden is one of our oldest aircraft in the collection, and I haven't heard anything about willow grove in the background but it's possible since it's the only one left. I'll inquire to more about the history of these aircraft. A full list of the museum's inventory as of about two months ago (I update it only when we lose aircraft, I have to wait to add new aircraft until it's official) - http://www.planesoffame.org/museum-aircraft.php

Eric, give you a deal

You ever make it out to SoCal, I'll give you a behind the scenes tour of the Planes of Fame and the restoration shops at the museum. As they say, Chino Airport is the capitol of warbirds. I will go on a random Saturday when there are no events going on and see anything from DC-3s, Nanchang CJ-6s, Stearmans, Yaks, B-25 Mitchells, P-51 Mustangs, L-19 Birddogs, Skyraider, etc. And that doesn't count the rides and test flights the Planes of Fame does each weekend!
I was there Saturday for one of the Planes of Fame Monthly events, and without any annoucement a German Storch and Douglas DC-3 arrived out of nowhere and parked in front of the Air Museum.

DC-3 (using a very wide angle as I was really this close)

The ever-floating Storch

The aircraft at the event

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 1:51 am

Sweet! I love the O-2! I wonder if it is one of the PA ANG planes that they used up 'til 1980.....

If I am ever in Southern California, I guarrantee I will be there! Thanks for the offer Britt. And if you are ever in the Washington DC/ Philadelphia area, I'm more than happy to show you around some C-5's, behind the scenes....

-Ski

Post by **p51** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:04 pm

Very cool, if I make it up there some day (I hope to especially for the Air and Space Museum!) I will take you up on that offer!

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 11:23 pm

Yeah, we could take a day and go together. You can check out the AMC museum at Dover and we could hit the Air & Space afterwards. I got the car, bud!

-Ski

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:18 am

Hey I found a picture of the P-59 in Minden Nebraska:

http://www.visi.com/~jweeks/p59/p59warp.html

You could imagine my reaction when we stumbled across this on my way out to California in 1989! The funny thing is that it is still there. Amazing, hey?

-Ski

Post by **p51** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:00 am

There's actually another one not far from here at the March Field Museum (next to the March ARB in Riverside) - http://www.marchfield.org/p59a.htm

luftpanzer · Post by **luftpanzer** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:17 pm

Thats just like the P38 I saw last weekend on the History chanel that they found 200 ft under Ice in Iceland. By the time they finished restoring it it was a brand new airplane with all the parts they had to replace. Every since the Iron curtain came down they have been finding all kinds of cool stuff in Eastern Europe. There was a web site I cant find it now. But this guy in Eastern Europe posted photos of his battlefield trips with all the relics him and his budy dug up. He even had photos of a T34 they recovered from a swamp in excellent condition. All they did was change the batteries and the engine cranked right up. I have freinds who travel to Lativia looking for German Militaria. They have friends over there that guide them to the battlefields to hunt for stuff. They find all kinds of cool stuff in ruins and barns. They where in an old trench line and dug up a 3.5cm anti aircraft gun. Man I wish I had the money to travel

Post by **p51** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:21 pm

luftpanzer wrote:Thats just like the P38 I saw last weekend on the History chanel that they found 200 ft under Ice in Iceland.

That's actually the P-38L Lightning 'Glacier Girl.' Gorgeous P-38, I had a special photo session with her at the POF Museum:

luftpanzer · Post by **luftpanzer** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:27 pm

Awsome photo.