The Rarest Dragon Armor Yet?

[lightning2000]

Itbcj,
By the same token, what about people that walk away from a transaction by not returning your phone calls when an item comes in or simply refuse to provide their payment details. Is this a breach of contract too? Are you guilty of this?
I've already responded to these and other criticisms regarding this item. I fully recognize that their are some people that will never be satisified no matter what you do and notice that its usually made by people that have never even dealt with us. At least we were brave enough to come here and report the issue.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[Tshintl]

I'd rather try to make a dozen people happy than let a few people corner the market.

A dozen eh, hmmm. Is that a hint?

I will be attending the Dragon Expo and will be very upset if there are none of the 1/72 Dragon Armor exclusives available at the show as that's the only exclusive I want.

Sort of makes me not want to go now, though I still will as I'm confident some dealer will have some for sale.

lightning2000,

Thanks for sharing the news with us, even if it is bad. At least I am now prepared for this.

[digger]

But exchange of money does matter. Not to get technical, but there is NO contract without both sides giving something of value. As Lightning said, no buyer gets sued (or lambasted on the board) for backing out of a pre-order. Let's get realistic: "other people's property up for sale" is just not true. You didn't pay for it, how is it yours? It just doesn't make any sense.

I am not saying it could be a bad business decision for reasons stated, but since when does anybody own anything they never acquired?

[lightning2000]

Hi,
Nah, I'm not offering any hints regarding what they're allotting. As for the Show, I still wholeheartedly recommend going even though this is a first for us and maybe this is the norm. By attending, you get to throw rotten eggs at us, call me shorty, and threaten to steal my kids in the middle of the night for not delving deeply into our crystal ball!

Seriously, though, you get to see what may be coming out down the line, shake hands with some vendors, make friends, purchase all sorts of cool stuff, and generally have a good weekend away from the drudgery of everyday life.

Keep in mind everyone, we're not talking about pulling heart medication from the market or confiscating your house in the name of prosperity. Its a cute little tank that we thought we'd have more to offer and found out otherwise.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[ltcbj]

Suggesting that I might be a person who walks away from a contract is a pretty poor and petty response on your part. Put in the form of a question seemingly avoids making it libelous. In any event it is non-responsive, irrelevant and simply insulting. In direct response- I have not. I also don't pre-order. I simply want to avoid frustrations such as this.
In answer to your general question: Customers who choose not to honor their side of the bargain are simply part of the cost of doing business. Your complaints are nothing but normal retail occurrences. Regrettable but to be expected. Customers die. Customers move. Their needs change. Yours remain the same. To provide retail product and to sell it... and to get and retain the public's trust.
You show no bravery reporting Dragon's proposed shortfall. You're just reporting. As to your response: I've already responded with my opinion of your behavior but it has nothing to do with my satisfaction. I did not pre-order. I simply am apalled at what I consider the lack of respect and care for customers shown by your decision and I would be easily satisfied by clearly ethical business practices.
It is true that I have never done business with you. That really isn't relevant either. You may have both superb product and be honest in your dealings with all your customers. I have not implied otherwise in any way- I have simply responded to this one issue regarding pre-orders of a specific item. I don't feel it was well thought out, but how could you not expect a strong negative response from many in the community?
Your insider prognostications include the same regarding the initial M1A1HA & M1A2 as I recall. We don't really know what Dragon will do but your announcement that you will not honor contracts if you have better prospects is neither braver nor more honest if you do it ahead of time or simply ignore them later.
This isn't personal, I don't know you. It is about a particular behavior. Don't make it personal-okay?

[lightning2000]

I'm not making this personal but when you make comments like "strikes me as the height of greed and the depths of ethical behavior," whos crossing the line first?

I also noticed that you've become our most vocal critic in this matter yet you havent placed an order with us for this item. Now either you're trying to whip up public hysteria when we've already explained our situation in several posts or you're looking to take this as far as it goes.

One more time...no contract was ever entered into and no orders have been cancelled. If the manufacturer provides us with more product, then we'll fill our pre-orders. We're also not the only vendor in town selling this item and you're always free to get it from whoever you so desire. But to make insidious remarks about our ethics is going way beyond the bounds of constructive criticism.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[easy8]

I guess I see some of your points Lightning, but it still comes down to honoring the original pre-order deal. You offered a product, a customer preordered it, they should have the right to buy that product from you when you recieve it. I'm not blaming you for what Dragon did, they are the root of this problem, but as a paying customer dealing with a store, I would hope that my deal would be honored to the best ability of the vendor. I guess I look at the pre-order concept as a "handshake" if you will, and believe that "handshake" should be fullfilled by both parties. Fill what preorders you can, because you are receiving some tanks, then work with the rest of the customers to meet their needs the best possible way. Again, this is not attack, just an opinion.

easy8

[lightning2000]

Hi,
Thank you for your constructive criticism.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[ltcbj]

I was certainly personal about my feelings but I can't believe that you didn't expect a strong response to your announcement. I may be the harshest critic but that may be because I have dealt with an awful lot of vendors and customers in my life and have developed pretty strong opinions regarding their actions. You have done nothing to excite or interest me in placing an order with you/your company, but I still have an opinion....
Besides- it isn't relevant that I have not ordered from you. Do I have to (pay you) in order to voice my opinion? That wasn't clear in your original posting. No, you haven't personally harmed me ever- in any way whatsoever. So what? Neither has Charles Manson or John Kerry and I'm not supportive of all their policies either.
In accepting a preorder you do enter into a contract, not necessarily legal (though debatable) but moral and ethical. I'm not trying "to whip up public hysteria"- I'm DISAGREEING with you! There's a difference. YOU put this up in the first place for discussion.
Saying that "no orders have been cancelled" is misleading sophistry. These are "preorders". I am sure that if distribution breaks in favor of lots of availability you will honor your preorders. If it doesn't you won't but will offer the very limited number up for (hopefully a high price) auction. That's business too. Just one I consider questionable.
It just so happened that you touched what I can only describe as a philosophical sore point with me. Interesting, huh?

[lightning2000]

Hi,
Thank you for your enlightening criticism and we'll certainly take it under advisement even if we disagree. I'm sorry you feel as strongly as you do but we thought it necessary, despite the negative comments, to point out the problem to the general public.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[ltcbj]

Hey, no problem. The real problem is this industrial giant creating demand for its products by constant fiddling with release dates, volume of product, distribution and all that. Creating new product out of old via a new paint job or the addition or deletion of a few details- wow what marketing!!
I suspect that you and your team could create more original and finer work via aftermarket remodeling what's out there yourselves- only you'd be swamped by the very volume of Dragon's output. It used to be that true collector's items were a result of various (consumer) market factors, they're now being dictated by the manufacturer- how's that for a "180"!?
I'm sure that this 'tempest in a teapot' will not have an effect on your business. Quality and availability of product will out, after all.

[lightning2000]

Hi,
Thank you for being so concilliatory in your last response. If you'll notice, we occassionally take different manufacturers to task if we feel a situation dictates, and this was no different. This time around, however, we got caught holding the bag by offering an item for pre-order well before we knew how many pieces were being doled out to the vendors. Frankly, had we known about the problem, we would've listed it on our web site for far more, seeing as how its a rarity but I know that by saying this it'll get someone else's dander up and I'll be responding to more posts.

Trust me, we're not looking to piss off people, lose sales or drive away traffic. We have nothing to gain, except for maybe a couple of bucks on ebay which will defray some of our costs for attending the Show which was our original goal. It also means that more people get to bid on the item instead of just giving it to a few individuals. I know its not a popular decision, but sometimes we're not here to win a popularity contest.

One thing we are thinking about doing is turning over our customer support line to someone in India named "Biff" to field further complaints while we head for the Caribbean. We're still mulling over that one though...

Lightning2000
"Infidels 'R Us"
www.themotorpool.bigstep.com

[ltcbj]

That would put you in the same class as DELL and other computer manufacturers. Can you imagine what the world would be like if cars were as reliable and had the same warranty care as computers? That you had to actually fix your own car while on the phone with someone whom you couldn't understand a significant percentage of their directions.... We'd be back on horseback overnight.
By the same consideration we could not have had our little set-to without the aid of the PC.
I still question whether the short term profit in your decision is worth the (possible) long term loss(es) but that is a question we each has to answer for himself. You certainly know your customers better than I do.

[aferguson]

ok well, this thread is starting to go in endless circles now. Both sides have expressed their viewpoints eloquently and in a civil manner but i don' think there is any purpose being served by rehashing the same old points over and over, so thread closed.

The root problem here is manufacturer exclusives. I have always hated them. All they do is line the pockets of the few who are lucky enough to get their hands on them and piss of thousands of loyal customers.

A classic example of where this backfired is Playmate's Star Trek figures line of several years ago. A highly desirable figure (Tapestry Picard) was made in a limited number (1799 or whatever the number of the Enterprise is....i forget).

Anyway....tens of thousands were wanted and less than 2000 were produced. Within a couple of months they were selling for over $1000 per figure. It put me off so much i stopped collecting the line. Apparently i wasn't the only one that reacted that way. Within a year and a half Playmates ceased production of this line due to poor sales. They had even back peddled at one point and release Tapestry Picard in a 3 pack with two other hard to find figures; a general release of several thousand figures......so now all the people that paid huge dollars for them also got burned.

So essentially the pissed off virtually every single one of their loyal customers. Smart.