Another peeve about FoV

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:23 am

The 1/32 PzIV-G is another example, to me, of how close but no cigar the FoV product line is, in my limited experience. The "doors" on the turret skirts just do not close properly. Why couldn't they have managed to mold those so that they would close? And the turret hatch itself revolves!! Who ever heard of that? Just sloppy. Otherwise I like the model.

A more general peeve across the board is the hatch covers that open to just shallow little boxes. Why have them open at at all if they lead to nothing? No detail, just a shallow hole you cannot fit a figure into and showing no interior details. Just so FoV can advertise "opening hatch covers."

demonclaw · Post by **demonclaw** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:00 am

Just be glad Unimax makes detailed models with such features for that price and Ive never had any problem with fitting the figures into those hatches

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:45 am

The hatches are less than 1/4" deep!!

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 2:25 pm

Maybe FOV did it so that if a customizer wishes to do so, the customizer would be able to add internal details without having to do the messy job of cutting up panel doors?

Then again, I doubt FOV didn't figured that those opening hatches would be the source of consternation to people, considering that one could simply glue those close if they wish.

And if you think FOV models are sloppy, and bad because of opening panel doors that leads to nothing, please save yourself the aggravation and don't ever buy 21st 1/32 armor. Those might give you a heart attack!

j/k

As for the doors that do not close properly...eh, that the nature of the pre-built model beast. Even the most high-end, pre-built models out there will have some form of issues.

That's why it's suggested that if you want an almost-perfect model, get your glue and exacto knife ready, because the only way to get that flawless model is if you build it yourself.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:54 pm

I used to. Now I'm either to shaky, too blind or too lazy... take your pick.

A customizer couldn't add details without taking the entire shebang apart and cutting out the bottoms and sides of the little wells. I don't really think that the manufacturer gave a fig of thought about the end user.

Now the M-3 Bradley (as does the hummer) has a great interior although the turret wells are a bit short, which is another flaw I find in all the FoV I have, or have had, to date.

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:44 pm

The Panzer IV G from FoV is one of my favorite models!!

The turret hatch in real life turns. If you want your doors to close get double-sided tape. And the turret hatch on the back can be open for a dio scene, showing a "knocked out" panzer. I'm thankful for this tank; just compare it to the 21c IV H, and you should be thankful too!

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:58 pm

try a 1/2 or 3/4 Figure for the hatches, sometimes they fit the bill where a full figure won't(literially)

I got irked with FOV when I got my 1st FOV item, the S1 StuG, and they miss glued a entire skirt to be off by 15 degrees.

the only thing from FOV I was the Jagdpanther..it prob one of their best...but their paint jobs are just about crap tooo dark and their figures are plain dog-poop.

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:51 pm

Yeah the turret skirt doors suck big time. I've had Two Panzer IV's with doors that not only didn't close but weren't aligned. Also, the system for attaching the side skirts is horrible, the support rails were glued on in the dark I think. Lots of cracked plastic and swearing went into my putting those damn things on.

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:55 pm

You could possibly just take those two turret schurzen door panes off, because I saw some pics of veteran panzers who went without doors. I think it should work.

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 8:57 pm

Der Kommandant wrote:You could possibly just take those two turret schurzen door panes off, because I saw some pics of veteran panzers who went without doors. I think it should work.

Hmm. That might be a good idea.

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 12:51 am

also you got to think it's a toy over a model so they made the toys to be played with...if they were fixed they would look/fit better but then they lose the play factor....think back to classic GI Joe days and chunky parts that had to hold up to the fight.

Us 1/35 guys don't get hinges yet..out of the box.

I was amazed when I saw hinged doors(the tool/storage side bins) on a 1/35 250/1 for the first time...still am I guess...but that's out of my league for the Uber-detail guys. The Bolt, Nut, Thread and Washer counters I guess we should call them.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:40 am

Der Kommandant wrote:The Panzer IV G from FoV is one of my favorite models!! The turret hatch in real life turns....

Are you saying that in "real life" the entire turret hatch assembly- with vision blocks and all- that entire built-up circular assembly to which the turret is attached and that rises what, 8-9" above the turret roof.... That that all revolved allowing the turret hatch itself to be at any angle to the turret body? Was it on ball bearings? Can you please provide a reference? Thank you.

BTW: It is al;so one of my favorites, I have four....

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:44 am

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/willphelps/

Pz IV world.com pretty much

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 4:59 am

I need to rephrase.

In the 1/32 FoV PzIV-G the commander's entire cupola revolves , not the hatch, the cupola.

On the other hand I have never seen a photo of a PzIV with a hatch cover that went up, then turned, as on the Panthers and Tigers, anyway.

Thanks for the PzIV site Panzer_M!!

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 10:21 am

ltcbj wrote:
Der Kommandant wrote:The Panzer IV G from FoV is one of my favorite models!! The turret hatch in real life turns....

I just contacted Will Phelps, expert, who assured me that the cupola did not revolve on the PzIV-G/H/J.

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 1:57 pm

ltcbj wrote:I need to rephrase.

In the 1/32 FoV PzIV-G the commander's entire cupola revolves , not the hatch, the cupola.

On the other hand I have never seen a photo of a PzIV with a hatch cover that went up, then turned, as on the Panthers and Tigers, anyway.

Thanks for the PzIV site Panzer_M!!

never made a hatch like that..you had either a 2 piece or a single hinge lid on the Pz IVs, although I've heard of the single hinge used on Pz III lids, but I never seen a wartime photo of a Late Pz III(L/M/N) with the single hinge myself.

IIRC. there is are a 1/2 dozen Pz IVs in the US/Canada? in Arberdeen and Private collections/Museums.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:10 pm

Panzer_M:

I agree. Your response has confused me.

I too have seen the double flap hatch and the single hinged opening to the port side of the turret. That push-up and twist aside hatch cover seems to be a Tiger/Panther item, not a PzIV.

My original comment has to do with the FoV PzIV-G and how its cupola turns in place. Something that never happens on a real PzIV....

My more general comments are how FoV makes these beautiful models but there is almost always some flaw, either in design, manufacture or both....

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:16 pm

Sorry I should have said no up and rotating hatch lids on the Pz IVs, unless it was a one-off field mod, using a Pz V cupola welding onto a IV turm..which I don't see done unless for a Befel(Command) or Beob(Arty Spotter)..but even then it would have been more work than worth it for any benefit. but it could have been done in theory..weird things get done in the field or project shop. Like a Pz V with IV turret(although IIRC the turret was fixed forward and did not rotate), or a Flakvierling on a T-34 as a make-shift flakpanzer 747(r).

Btw, (r) = Russian as to German labeling captured equipment....ie 4.5cm PaK 184(r) is the capture russian 4.5cm AT Gun(short barrel) in German service., French material was (f), Italian was (i), etc

as to flaws.
Everyone makes Flaws..even the expensive modeling companies Tamiya, Dragon, Italeri..
good example:
Dragon made a few mistakes/mostly research mistake in which/and when features showed up in the new StuG G w/Zimm 1/35 kit..while their early StuG G kit which came out just about the same time was almost perfect. weird how two kits which are very similar and only seperated by a few months in release time could be so different quality wise.

Flaws happen..that's why there is a aftermarket..market to fix what comes out the box.

plus remember some of these model have no existing counterpart in real life remaining..just blueprints and photos and factory info and sometime less...so somethings just have to be "guessed" at, based over of what is feasible or similar on other AFVs.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 2:54 pm

Yeah. But I've reached that age where fixing flaws is a task I no longer want to engage in and when I pay $40 for a model I really want it to work right.

Will Phelps did note that some PzBeobWgn-IVs had Stug cupolas put on and those did have the lift and turn hatches.

One of my favorite things about 21C is that the tracks operate independently so they don't get thrown when scooting along the carpet (I still do that) at a scale 60mph.

Also their (21C) finish (and price) is such that I have no real expectation of accurate detail or fine finish. They are also easier to work on when I have to. And I find their consistency and finish generally better than FoV. FoV of course has them all beat to heck on the detail.

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 3:00 pm

I alway thought the fact that FOV made a workable torsion bar suspension for their StuG III was quite a thing for a toy company. Least the S1 StuG has moveable suspension, don't know about the later StuGs if they dropped this feature to cut cost.

but at the same time, they mis-glue the brackets to the schurtzen on the right side...So with one blessing comes a headache.

Btw, got posted up some Pz IV(lg) late photos in the Ref room.
only one shot of the late cupola.
viewtopic.php?p=151880#151880

Der Kommandant · Post by **Der Kommandant** » Mon Sep 22, 2008 6:25 pm

Hmmm. I always thought the cupola turned; not the hatch, because the hatch just flips up. The entire cupola should be able to turn in real life, because unlike the Panther and Tiger the IV didn't come with an AAMG rail; therefore the whole cupola turned to allow the MG34 to swivel. I also induced that the cupola turned from two photos I saw. One had the hatch flipped to the port side; the other pic showed it at a starboard angle. Just my thoughts. I may be wrong though.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:28 pm

I checked with Will Phelps (see above) and he said that the only Pz-IVs with revolving cupolas were the Beobachtung variant.

The hatch (on the later models) does just flip up. I suspect what you saw were reversed negatives in the cases where the hatch opened to the starboard rather than the port side.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Another peeve about FoV

Another peeve about FoV

Re: Another peeve about FoV

Flaws in scale.