1:18 Marder IIIM build

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Thu May 22, 2008 3:30 am

Need some tips, this will be my first scratch build of anything accurate and to scale. I can draft by hand. What I'm planning on doing, which sounds really hard but to me it's second nature and I'm really obsessive, and by triple checking measurements, is taking both my Marder III by 21st and three views I have online and drawing each, single piece. Measuring carefuly in millimeters, and then converting to 1/18 in centimeters, which shouldn't be too hard.

I have VERY little money. I have tools, my hands, wood and will. I want to work with wood because I'm okay with it and I know how it works, ha.

I love Marders. I was going to go big, real big in 1/6, but I don't know where I'd put it.

But I know damn well everyone would love it. It will be 1/18th.

Now I went through several Marder variations and this is the one I want to do, mainly because it's my personal favorite, and as well it doesn't require as many slight angle placings as other models. The tricky part will be the front part of the turret, but I think I can use layered thin wood, Idk what kind though, tips? I'd like to get started tomorrow, as soon as I can get some money. Thinking about blowing off my friends for this, so you early birds I need some help.

I'm going to build the turret first, not because of any strategic reason, but for pyschological reasons. I can see that part and likely to have less mistakes with it. I'm thinking of having a very limited interior but I'm not sure yet. I'd love to put in a driver.

I do a lot of junk searching and find useless things but I know where to look for what I can use. I have an idea how I might get some help with the hard parts, and wood. There's a guy who makes furniture at his house real close by. I walk by his house all the time, and I think I'll give it a shot.

I'm also not going to cut any panel lines. All panels will be real. I'm going to COUNT rivets, and use tacks for them. I'm a detail nut when I build, at least when I can do them. I don't know how I'm gonna get 1/18th tools, seats, the muzzle break, but I know nothing's impossible. I'm going to attempt to make the gun work, as in slide, open, etc. The turret will rotate.

Nothing's concrete but I need a lot of advice, and if ya'll want I can take pics along the way.

I haven't even picked out paint. That will come when I'm done. I don't even know about where I'm going to get decals yet, and the like.

I know I must be crazy. I've been going nuts lately and I think this will help keep my feet on the ground. A goal, a project.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:08 am

The crew compartment will be the easiest thing to do on your Marder. The rivets could be made with strait pins.You could probably strip the crew compartment out of the pak Stuka as well as the muzzel brake. The gun swiveled but did not rotate. The gun shield hampered the gun traverse so it was up to the driver to point the gun in the right direction.
The road wheels and track wil be the toughest thing to do. The 1/18 Panther inside road wheels are close in diameter but have the wrong dish. If you have access to a lathe they could be tured to the correct dish as long as fill the back with some kind of epoxy.
The tracks can probably be used from a Mk IV. The tread is off and they are too wide but. They are semi close. But the main problem with the IV's track is the guide teeth . The Marder has 2 teeth and the Panzer's track has one in the middel.
If you looking fo close you cannabilize from The Stuka, Panzer Mk IV and the Panther this would be easier but pricy. Without ruining the parts you could use them as guides.
As far as your scale plans you can get them enlared yourself at Kinkos for about $6-$8. That is not a whole lot.If they do it for you it will cost you. This is how I do mine and keep the cost down.
1. Get scale prints
2. Determine what you enlarged size will be. Ok say the Marder is 34 feet 7 inches long in 1 to 1 scale. (I don't know how long it is so we will do a hypothetical) .
A. You need to put this into inches. 34x12 = 408 + 7 =415.
B. So you have 415 inches now you want to convert to 1/18 scale. So 415 divided by 18 = 23.05 inches. So the Marder will be about 23 1/16 inches long aprx.
C. Now you know the size it has to be. Now measure the original scale plans . Say it measures right at 6 1/2 inches. So you need to find out how many times 6 1/2 inches goes into 23.05. So 23.05 divided by 6.5 = 3.547.
D. So you have 3.547. Kinkos enlargement only goes by whole numbers. so you will have to enlarge it by 354 %. Did you see how I did that? I moved the ( . ) over 2 and dropped the 7.
3. So now you know that you have to enlarge the prints 354. So you go to the machine go through the system and punch in the enlargement to 354%. You will have to enlarge one side of the prints and then the other because the paper only goes up to 17 inches long. After taping both side measure and see if you are 23 inches long. it should be close. If it is off move the % up or down to get what you need. THATS IT SIMPLE.
4. I like to get a single print of my subjects. But to keep the cost down you can use the small machine and jut enlarge everything on the small paper. This would cost only about $2-$5 only. Maybe even cheaper. It cost about $5 if you use the big machine. The big machine all you do is put your scale prints in dial up the enlaged % in this case 354 % push the button it reads the prints and about 60 seconds spits out the ful scale pints on one large piece of paper.
Did I lose you ? Hope this helps.
Matthew

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Thu May 22, 2008 5:18 am

Not lost at all. Oh, and by rotated I meant that swivel.

I don't think any anti-tank gun had a truly rotating turret.

Thanks for the help. Certainly better than drawing everything.

But like you said the thin tracks on the Marder, and the road wheels are gonna be difficult. The gun as well, but for now I'm going to worry about the chassis.

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Thu May 22, 2008 8:07 am

Good luck on your build! Please post "in progress" pics if you are able.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Thu May 22, 2008 10:44 pm

I will, I'm just unable to locate useable, large 3-views of a Marder IIIM anywhere, I'm probably gonna have to hit the Russian web... no joke. If you want to build planes here's a great site...

http://www.airwar.ru/other/drawe.html

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:19 pm

I'm stuck, and I have gotten nowhere. No worry though, I'm using this time to study up on camo, figure out what kind of wood I want to use, etc. I'm most likely going to end up at Half-Price Books, scouring for Marder profiles and the like.

I really need help with this, and Pickelhaube, I've got a way you can send me that three-view, I'll PM you about it.

I wish some of you guys lived here!

List of items needed so far:

Wood (notes on that below)
Metal rods
Tiny hinges
Pipe
Stowage
Tacks
Straight pins
Pak-40
Tracks
Running gear
Paint (undetermined as of yet)
Decals (undertermined as of yet)

The wood:

I'm not sure, but I think I'm going to go with thin hardwood for most of the turret and upper hull, the complex cuts. I'm going to take a thicker, softer wood for the main part of the hull, where it's thickness won't be noticed, and the price will be nice.

For the curve of the gun turret, I really don't know what to do. Really thin Bass or Balsa?

If you have anything laying around, like treads that could work with a Marder III, or a Pak-40, please PM me, maybe we can work out a trade, cash, when I have some, or something. I don't want to butcher my Pak-40 Hanomag I got for my birthday and I know some of you have stuff laying around!

Thanks for any support, I really want to get this off of the ground.

kduck · Post by **kduck** » Mon May 26, 2008 4:34 am

I know that you said that you intend to mainly work with wood but you're almost certainly going to need some sheets of styrene. It might be your best choice for the curved parts you mention. I don't know if anyone's mentioned it before in the customs forum but a good inexpensive source of sheet styrene can be had at Wal Mart, Lowes or Home Depot by looking in the section where they sell signs. You can find "Yard Sale" and "Beware of Dog" and other such signs there fairly cheap. I've also found them in dollar stores for, you guessed it $1. The signs are usually printed on one side and blank white on the other but the printed side usually takes paint without any problems.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Mon May 26, 2008 6:59 am

You can do the curved part with TP inner rolls pvc pipe or anything that is the right diameter. The PVC is cheap and you do not have to get a whole length at Home Depot . You can cut what you need off of a long piece or find a fitting that is the right size.

Doll house hinges work but they could be a little over size. But they can be cut down.

Use thin cardboard or paste board . That is the thin cardboard that comes with loose leaf paper . Use this for your templates. It is easier to shape this than the venier wood. 1/8" door skin luwan works for the thin wood. It sells for about $10 for a full 4'x 8' sheet. Enough to do about 100 tanks. They sell this at some of your TRUE lumber yards. Call first. The paste board could work by itself if you put about 10 coats of Shellac or Laquer inside and out.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:31 pm

Thanks for the tips.

I've heard of the styrene, and I didn't know that's what those signs were made of. I've heard of Luwan, albeit years ago, I'll check into it. I didn't even think about making templates, either...

I'm going to make a phone call and get that fax...

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:46 pm

Okay so hopefully I should get my plans tomorrow, courtesy of Pickelhaube, and I'll have them blown up.

Then, onto the fun part. I've decided on styrene.

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:03 pm

Did you get the prints?

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:16 pm

Yeah but you won't believe what my dad did...

He thought you were the one sending me the Panzer IV, which he didn't know was a Panzer IV, he thought was a Marder III, so he was going to send the money order to Olifant, with a letter to you. He said he tossed the plans in his trash because he thought that was just a picture of what "you" were sending...

But I think he recovered them. No worries... I'm just amused that my old man, is actually starting to show signs of being old.

We had a good laugh about it though. I should have them tomorrow.

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 1:36 am

Thats OK AS as I am getting old too. I threw your PZIV in the trash, pulled it out and mailed it to PH...

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 12:06 pm

He was born in 1952, come on!

Not to mention the rapid aging a seperation after 27 years of marriage has on ya.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:02 pm

Okay, got the 3-views, just darkening some lines, going to scan them in and I'm going to attempt to do what Grognard did, size it up with Photoshop and then print it out. Then it's off to cardboard templates. I have lots of cardboard. That's todays business and I'll take some pictures. Tonight I'll check trash for Styrene. There's lots of high-end business here that use good signs, and a lot of them get thrown out.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:23 pm

My target length should be per my first check is 10.826 inches.

Double checked and I believe it's right. This should be a pretty small build. Didn't really think about it but it is a small vehicle.

Good for a first build I guess. It's just aquiring tiny tracks and the right running gear. The Pak-40 I believe I can procure. They have them at TRU, it's just chopping it up is going to hurt a little inside.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:33 pm

Got everything resized. Test print in a few.

Skauser · Post by **Skauser** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 1:13 pm

Good luck mate ...please put some pics up , when you can.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 7:17 pm

The test print went great. Everything is going well so far. Although putting a 1:18th soldier next to the front view looks like the Marder was quite small (his helmet gets just under the barrel, or I got the measurements wrong.) I took a 32x soldier and put him next to my 32x Marder and it looks damn close, so I think it may just be the height of it. There's room in the crew compartment for the 3 guys, so I may just be worrying too much.

It worked out to be 10.866 inches. I double checked over two ways.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Fri Jun 27, 2008 3:49 pm

I'm not sure yet. If only there were a Panzer III in 1/18... =/

I'm still considering these things, even a temporary use of a track from a US halftrack is on my mind, I'm thinking of solutions, but none would be 100% accurate. Just around the right width, so it has something to sit on.

I checked the signs that the real estate company throws away, and they're metal. I still have to procure styrene. So right now I'm still stuck in Phase 1 : Planning/preparing. But the build is a green light, it will just be slow.