Sticker Shock----Complain now and lose the 1/18 line

[exether_mega]

*cough*
http://www.matotoys.com/canada/product_ ... cts_id=237

1/16 RC King Tiger.

That's bigger than the 1/18 21st King Tiger.

What you get:

1. Better detail than 21st's King Tiger. (Not perfect, but better than 21st)

2. Working suspensions.

3. Individual track links, compared to 21st's rubberband-like tracks.

4. Proportional RC drive system, meaning it can drive slow like a real tank, compared to 21st's speedy little RC tanks in the past.

5. King tiger sounds.

6. Smoke effects for the exhaust.

7. The whole thing is RC. Barrel moves up and down, turret rotates, has working lights, firing machine gun lights, etc.

8. Shoots BB pellets.

9. Includes Battery charger and battery for the tank.

And oh, look...it's from China. So apparently, they shipped from there too like 21st's.

And ALL that for $200.

Don't like that price?

How about this piece of beauty:
http://www.matotoys.com/canada/product_ ... cts_id=240

1/16 RC Panzer IV. It should be around the same size as the 21st King Tiger.

And you get everything I listed above too for $100 SHIPPED.

I would like to point out again that these RC models are made in China, so they also took that long slow boat ride, and those ships uses the same fuel you claim that causing the rise of XD product's prices.

And why again is 21st's non-rc, toy-looking King Tiger $100?

Are these brand new models ? From how long do they exist ? Are they fresh from the factory or waiting on shelves from some months when they were initialy produced ? As they are made in China from a national company I guess cost production, taxes and so on are more interesant than a factory producing models for a foreign company. Better exportation taxes and help from chineese government. They are also cheaper than Tamiya RC models so why don't you ask to Tamiya to lower their price too ?

There is no miracle. If 21st are the only one to increase price then ok they clearly want a bigger profit. Now as other companies do the same then there is a reason behind it and 21st simply adjust their prices because of this reason.

Putting our head in sand and complaining is not a solution. We have to face reality. World is changing, oil price is increasing, production cost are increasing and it's more than ever a walk or die politic that rules the world. 21st have a business to rules too. So in my opinion blaming them is not the good attitude.

100$ is too much for you for a 1/18 KT then OK start collecting cheaper 1/16 RC models. It's your choice not mine.
Stop supporting 21st because of that then OK. It's your choice not mine.
Support chineese economy instead of US economy then OK. It's your choice not mine.
But be prepared to stop supporting oil company who increase their price as milk producer, food producer, furniture producer, energy producer...

it's time to face things : good ol'time is finished and never come again.

Sorry for this long post but things have to be said. that was my two cents opinion of the day.

phil

[GooglyDoogly]

Are these brand new models ? From how long do they exist ? Are they fresh from the factory or waiting on shelves from some months when they were initialy produced ?

I don't understand the implication of your question....what does it matter when these tanks were produced? Are you saying that the 1/18th 21st King Tiger will lower in price after a few months after being released?

Are we gonna do the, Wait-Till-They-Are-Cheap-Till-We-Buy-Them again that served 21st so well back when people buy XD stuff in Walmart at cheap prices.

BTW, that RC 1/16th King Tiger has been released in December of 2007, and the 1/16th Panzer IV was released more recently than that. So yeah they've been out for less than four months.

As they are made in China from a national company I guess cost production, taxes and so on are more interesant than a factory producing models for a foreign company. Better exportation taxes and help from chineese government.

Matorro is a German-Asian co-production company. A German company designed the tank, and a Chinese factory produced the thing.

Kinda like 21st is a US company, and a Chinese factory built their models.

They are also cheaper than Tamiya RC models so why don't you ask to Tamiya to lower their price too ?

I own several 1/16 tanks, but this is irrelevant. You gave oil price/higher cost in plastic as a reason that 21st increased their prices at 100%.

I showed you tanks that are bigger and far more detailed and have more capabilities than the 21st King Tiger.

You still haven't explained why the 21st King Tiger = hunk of plastic that is being sold for $100.

Matorro King Tiger = bigger hunk of plastic with far more details with RC components for $200

There is no miracle. If 21st are the only one to increase price then ok they clearly want a bigger profit. Now as other companies do the same then there is a reason behind it and 21st simply adjust their prices because of this reason.

As for Tamiya, I bought their Full Option Tiger I a couple of years ago at around $600.

A few days ago, I bought their new 1/16th Full Option Panther G at $800 shipped. That's around 35% increase in price.

Not 21st's near-100% price hike.

Putting our head in sand and complaining is not a solution. We have to face reality. World is changing, oil price is increasing, production cost are increasing and it's more than ever a walk or die politic that rules the world. 21st have a business to rules too. So in my opinion blaming them is not the good attitude.

I have no clue why 21st deemed it necessary to drastically (yes, a near 100% price hike IS drastic) their armor. Yes, production cost/oil prices/etc etc has increased, but not at 100%

100$ is too much for you for a 1/18 KT then OK start collecting cheaper 1/16 RC models. It's your choice not mine.

You betcha. Especially when those 1/16th tanks are far more detailed and accurate than XD stuff.

Stop supporting 21st because of that then OK. It's your choice not mine.

See, I'm in this hobby for the love of toys/models. Not a company. I owe 21st nothing. They don't pay my bills. They never gave me soup nor sent me a card when I was sick.

They are a company that produces stuff for you and I to buy. That's it.

Support chineese economy instead of US economy then OK. It's your choice not mine.

LOL now you're bringing patriotism into it? That's just silly. Please stick to the current debate. Oh wait....21st stuff are made in CHINA TOO.

But be prepared to stop supporting oil company who increase their price as milk producer, food producer, furniture producer, energy producer...

Irrelevant. food/energy is VITAL for my survival. Not these hobby toys. So comparing them is silly.

[Jesse James]

I can safely say the trickle-down effect of oil price increases isn't why a 100% price increase may happen with the KT and 88... I think I've had a year or two experience under my belt with the toy industry to know this by now. Raw materials don't jack prices up that high, that fast.

The possible reasons for the price hike are better explained by the fact they're not going to make many of either item. And by many I'm not talking them making 500 or something... It'll be in the thousands, but instead of being in the 10's it'll be in the singles or something.

Again, I don't feel that justifies the pricehike to me personally because I don't see the leap in quality I'd need to justify the purchase. As I noted somewhere, throw in figures, accessories/bits & pieces, and I'm much more inclined to not MIND the price (not happy, just not mind it as much). Oil is 100% not the reason for a 100% price hike though, so just so that's clearer I think.

No toy company is going up by those %'s regardless of how small their operations are though. And that's even with increased pressure on safety standards this year.

[MG40K]

I can safely say the trickle-down effect of oil price increases isn't why a 100% price increase may happen with the KT and 88... I think I've had a year or two experience under my belt with the toy industry to know this by now. Raw materials don't jack prices up that high, that fast.

The possible reasons for the price hike are better explained by the fact they're not going to make many of either item. And by many I'm not talking them making 500 or something... It'll be in the thousands, but instead of being in the 10's it'll be in the singles or something.

Again, I don't feel that justifies the pricehike to me personally because I don't see the leap in quality I'd need to justify the purchase. As I noted somewhere, throw in figures, accessories/bits & pieces, and I'm much more inclined to not MIND the price (not happy, just not mind it as much). Oil is 100% not the reason for a 100% price hike though, so just so that's clearer I think.

No toy company is going up by those %'s regardless of how small their operations are though. And that's even with increased pressure on safety standards this year.

Well said! I agree 100 %

[olifant]

I think we are all clear on the fact that 21C has doubled their price.

[grunt1]

hm...nice stuff.

I was thinking that it might be better to collect 1/16 tanks ONLY (as opposed to collecting 1/18 tanks only like i'm doing now....in other words switch scales for tanks only). The variety is better and since they're all the same scale and the xd figures are big anyway you'd not really notice the over scale-ness of them. I'd still collect everything else in 1/18, just the tanks would all be 1/16.

With there now being a PIV and affordable KT in 1/16 it is even more attractive. There are already T-34's, PIII's and soon to be a Stug III and KV 1 plus all the stuff that aleady exists in that scale. Might be an idea to dump my 1/18 tanks on Ebay and collect 1/16 armour together with 1/18 planes.

Hm.

Interesting idea.. and the arguments on price vs. value are pretty compelling. Anyone have any photos of some 1:18 crew in an 1:16 Tiger (or tank of some kind)?

[ostketten]

Anyone have any photos of some 1:18 crew in an 1:16 Tiger (or tank of some kind

I'll see what I can dig up for us, I know I've seen plenty around, but I can't remember which sites specifically at the moment. The bottom line is this though, at least IMHO, they look a bit stunted, but I suppose you can always pretend the they are Hitler Jugend ....LOL

[V2 MAN]

We shouldnt make judgements about things if they arent even out. By far this Kt could be made of metal instead of plastic and that it might not even be $100. It might be close but not exactly. I think this topic should be locked and that we should all start talking when these items actually come out before things get out of hand.



V2

[GooglyDoogly]

Here ya go. Here's a Tamiya 1/16 Tiger (converted into a Late version) with an XD crew.

http://tomsrctanks.com/latetiger.asp

[HIDEOUS ONE]

I can see all sides of this discussion. Still, I sure as hell plan on buying a KT and an 88. Maybe only one of each this time around(unlike my usual 4 or 5 of each) but I am impressed by everything I see for the most part. I am a hardcore figure guy so I am always hoping that someone is listening when I repeatedly request Russian and British figs. I have supported 21st since 2002 by buying tons of everything they have made. Going as far as turning Medium P and Tiger D on to the 1:18 line from which they have gone on to surpass my colection in volume. If they bow out I'll be pissed. Because I still plan on supporting, even when
money gets tight.