Sticker Shock----Complain now and lose the 1/18 line

[Tinman]

As my collection has grown over the years, I've become more selective about what pieces I will add. If it's one that I really want, I'll find a way to buy it.

Since that's been my approach for the past two or three years, I'm not going to worry about price increases unless they get really out of hand (I realize that everyone has a different definition of that).

[V2 MAN]

Jesse James Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject:

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(Meant for humor, not insult, so just have fun and a laugh about it please)

BTW I'd add this...

You give that KT a FULL interior, removable shells, ammo cans, etc., and a full crew with removable caps...

I'd probably buy it, even at $100.00. Same goes for the 88... Give me a full crew for it, some spent and live ammo, and I'm probably down for a $100.00 cannon too. For me it's just a matter of meeting my expectations per price.

Much like the FOV tanks... For $30 or whatever, I'm not expecting a balls to the wall tank. For $50 I'm expecting more... For $100, I'm expecting a lot. It's simple consumer economics.

Me im not worried about prices and i dont think anyone else should be. Like jesse james said when you get a bigger more badder xd piece with high detail and is the first ever produced in that scale comes a higher price thats normal and ive seen it before with other things besides our beloved xd. Take video games for example when cod4 came out it was around $50-$60. Thats pretty high for a video game people but with a high price comes a lot better video game, i mean this was the first video game with that type of graphics and man are they awsome and i wouldnt mind paying $70 for it and it still would have been worth it to me. Same with our upcoming KT and 88 if there as good as people say they are the $100 price for the KT or that $30 or $40 price for that 88 is worth it. I also believe that 1/18 will never die. Its just nondreamable So i think we should all quit worrying about the price increase or if this as what they say it is or stuff like that and be gratefull that we finally got a 1/18 88 and a 1/18 Kt on the way

[KAMIKAZE]

I'm going to miss you guys.

[olifant]

I now have about 20 1/18 AC and probably 50 1/32 and there is only one out of the entire bunch I think is a dud; a 1/32 Zero which came in a dogfight package. And even that doesn't bother me too much. Much less than the way these these collect dust.

[King O' Fools]

KOF what kind of perfection are you looking for?

The kind of perfection where you don't actually have to buy four freakin' BBDs before you get lucky enough to find one that resembles the original. At $100 a pop, they'd better improve quality real fast.

Something tells me they won't, however, because this price hike has more (everything) to do with their now defunct WM account than it has to do with raising costs or QC improvement.

[King O' Fools]

Me im not worried about prices and i dont think anyone else should be. Like jesse james said when you get a bigger more badder xd piece with high detail and is the first ever produced in that scale comes a higher price thats normal and ive seen it before with other things besides our beloved xd. Take video games for example when cod4 came out it was around $50-$60. Thats pretty high for a video game people but with a high price comes a lot better video game, i mean this was the first video game with that type of graphics and man are they awsome and i wouldnt mind paying $70 for it and it still would have been worth it to me. Same with our upcoming KT and 88 if there as good as people say they are the $100 price for the KT or that $30 or $40 price for that 88 is worth it. I also believe that 1/18 will never die. Its just nondreamable So i think we should all quit worrying about the price increase or if this as what they say it is or stuff like that and be gratefull that we finally got a 1/18 88 and a 1/18 Kt on the way

Sorry, but I must have missed the thread were people were extolling the virtues of the more detailed KT and Panther releases. The latter is just a repaint.

Jesse James was laying out a hypothetical scenario (IF-THEN-ELSE) in his post:

IF:

"You give that KT a FULL interior, removable shells, ammo cans, etc., and a full crew with removable caps..."

THEN:

"I'd probably buy it, even at $100.00. Same goes for the 88... Give me a full crew for it, some spent and live ammo, and I'm probably down for a $100.00 cannon too. For me it's just a matter of meeting my expectations per price."

ELSE (implied):

They'd better forget about it.

(If that were the case, then I'd be all for doubling the price of armor too. But clearly it's not.)

[grunt1]

You give that KT a FULL interior, removable shells, ammo cans, etc., and a full crew with removable caps...

I'd probably buy it, even at $100.00. Same goes for the 88... Give me a full crew for it, some spent and live ammo, and I'm probably down for a $100.00 cannon too. For me it's just a matter of meeting my expectations per price.

Much like the FOV tanks... For $30 or whatever, I'm not expecting a balls to the wall tank. For $50 I'm expecting more... For $100, I'm expecting a lot. It's simple consumer economics.

Fully agree... ! If you're going to make a more premium product, tailor it to the audience. We love accessories!

[MajorHoover]

This may have been mentioned before, but the price increase may be the result of higher oil prices.

Not only does the product have to ship from China to the US, but the plastic that is used to make the toys themselves comes from oil (or some by-product).

With a barrel of oil now consistently above $100 a barrel, the shear cost of raw materials would require a price increase.

[FieroDude]

This may have been mentioned before, but the price increase may be the result of higher oil prices.

Not only does the product have to ship from China to the US, but the plastic that is used to make the toys themselves comes from oil (or some by-product).

With a barrel of oil now consistently above $100 a barrel, the shear cost of raw materials would require a price increase.

Yes, but unfortunately, even if the raw materials cost doubles or triples, we are still talking under $10 per unit. The only thing probably cheaper than the materials costs on these things on a per piece basis is the labor (the reasoning for producing in China). It simply comes down the fact that since there is a smaller customer base to sell to (since WM is out and TRU apparently won't commit to carrying these), they are spreading development costs a smaller production volume in the hope of recouping all upfront investment on a single much smaller than usual production run. Kind of like if GM decided to recoup all the development costs for the Chevy Cobalt on the first 10,000 cars--anyone want a $400,000 econo-box?

[Jesse James]

Fully agree... ! If you're going to make a more premium product, tailor it to the audience. We love accessories!

Thanks...

And yes, KOF is right... My post was all based on 21st actually IMPROVING the product to a $100 pricepoint, and that (for me) includes the 88... Is it detailed? Sure, but it is no better/worse to me than the King Tiger so the KT to me is the more interesting piece... It's a tank afterall.

To improve things to a worthy $100 pricepoint I'd need to see some jumps in quality. Right off the bat they've already set the precedent of a full interior with tanks, so I'd need that on the King Tiger, hands down. It doesn't seem to have that though, so right off the bat my idea of a value on this is gone... Then though, I'd need some incidentals. Things that won't cost the company an arm and a leg because the fixed costs are already in place on them for the most part, but having them in the box would visually add value to the toy and would also be "cool" to me personally to get all in one swoop...

That includes a full crew, all with removable caps and unique head decorations/sculpts. If you repaint it you could have crews in black, grey, white... It could really add value. Some spent and live ammo shells, some cans for the MG... All as removable accessories, and same with the gear on the outside... Little stuff like the shovels, wrenches, maybe a barbed wire coil or some such. It's the little things basically.

The panther, to me, has zero chance of being worth $100 unless they completely retool it with an interior and all the above. Even then, I already own one I got for substantially less... so why care?

Hope there wasn't confusion or anything... I'd need to see improvements for the price, and thus far I see none.

[exether_mega]

guys,

I have read carefully your post and I think the reason stay mainly the increasing oil price. A friend of mine who own a model shop told me this afternoon that Trumpeter and also Dragon will lift their models price about 10% to 15%. He also suppose Tamiya will do the same soon.

So I think we cannot blame 21st for this as it seems to be general. Manufacturing cost and increasing oil cost will slowly change the face of our hobbies.

phil

[GooglyDoogly]

guys,

I have read carefully your post and I think the reason stay mainly the increasing oil price. A friend of mine who own a model shop told me this afternoon that Trumpeter and also Dragon will lift their models price about 10% to 15%. He also suppose Tamiya will do the same soon.

So I think we cannot blame 21st for this as it seems to be general. Manufacturing cost and increasing oil cost will slowly change the face of our hobbies.

phil

21st tanks used to go for around $40-$50.

Let's take the higher price and use the higher percentage increase. So 15% of $50 is....$7.50.

So the newer pieces should be around $60.00

[CW4USARMY]

10-15% is understandable..................100%?....not so much

[exether_mega]

don't forget a 1/18 KT is much more bigger than a 1/35 or 1/32 model kit.

phil

[CW4USARMY]

Not sure of the 1/32nd size comment. 21st 1:18 XD tanks have never retailed for more than 39-49.00.........Regardless of size. (except for a few crazy priced internet sites)

[GooglyDoogly]

don't forget a 1/18 KT is much more bigger than a 1/35 or 1/32 model kit.

phil

Bigger doesn't always equal high prices. I know a lot of big cheap toys at toy stores. And they haven't gone up 100% in prices.

You forget that those 1/32 and 1/35 models are far more detailed, and sometimes, they even have resin and PE pieces.

[exether_mega]

detailed parts doesn't mean more plastic. I mean the KT will surely be heavier than a 1/32 kit so more plastic have been used. More plastic means more oil.

phil

[normandy]

I thought this King Tiger was mostly die cast.

[exether_mega]

I thought this King Tiger was mostly die cast.

I don't know that.

phil

[GooglyDoogly]

detailed parts doesn't mean more plastic. I mean the KT will surely be heavier than a 1/32 kit so more plastic have been used. More plastic means more oil.

phil

But like I said, there are plenty of HUGE plastic toys out there. But you don't see them inflating their prices at 100%

[exether_mega]

detailed parts doesn't mean more plastic. I mean the KT will surely be heavier than a 1/32 kit so more plastic have been used. More plastic means more oil.

phil

But like I said, there are plenty of HUGE plastic toys out there. But you don't see them inflating their prices at 100%

I am sure the reason is linked to increasing oil price. If Trumpeter and Dragon lift their price too then there is something somewhere to cause this.

phil

[V2 MAN]

don't forget a 1/18 KT is much more bigger than a 1/35 or 1/32 model kit.

phil

Bigger doesn't always equal high prices. I know a lot of big cheap toys at toy stores. And they haven't gone up 100% in prices.

You forget that those 1/32 and 1/35 models are far more detailed, and sometimes, they even have resin and PE pieces.

It all depends on how much work is put into the item. Those big cheap toys your talking about probably arent as detailed as xd therefore less time and money is put into in which the price wont be that high. Even though the 1/32 and 1/35 models may seem far more detailed but it also takes money to take the size and increase it and which would cost the producer more $$.

I am sure the reason is linked to increasing oil price. If Trumpeter and Dragon lift their price too then there is something somewhere to cause this.

phil

I agree. First it all starts on paying for the item to be produced, second it takes money for your completed item to be shipped in which the rising cost of oil falls in. When oil goes up so does shipping fees. There for selling fees would go up for the producing company to at least get money out of the product. So if you look hard enough it all would probably link to rising costs of oil.

[GooglyDoogly]

*cough*
http://www.matotoys.com/canada/product_ ... cts_id=237

1/16 RC King Tiger.

That's bigger than the 1/18 21st King Tiger.

What you get:

1. Better detail than 21st's King Tiger. (Not perfect, but better than 21st)

2. Working suspensions.

3. Individual track links, compared to 21st's rubberband-like tracks.

4. Proportional RC drive system, meaning it can drive slow like a real tank, compared to 21st's speedy little RC tanks in the past.

5. King tiger sounds.

6. Smoke effects for the exhaust.

7. The whole thing is RC. Barrel moves up and down, turret rotates, has working lights, firing machine gun lights, etc.

8. Shoots BB pellets.

9. Includes Battery charger and battery for the tank.

And oh, look...it's from China. So apparently, they shipped from there too like 21st's.

And ALL that for $200.

Don't like that price?

How about this piece of beauty:
http://www.matotoys.com/canada/product_ ... cts_id=240

1/16 RC Panzer IV. It should be around the same size as the 21st King Tiger.

And you get everything I listed above too for $100 SHIPPED.

I would like to point out again that these RC models are made in China, so they also took that long slow boat ride, and those ships uses the same fuel you claim that causing the rise of XD product's prices.

And why again is 21st's non-rc, toy-looking King Tiger $100?

[aferguson]

hm...nice stuff.

I was thinking that it might be better to collect 1/16 tanks ONLY (as opposed to collecting 1/18 tanks only like i'm doing now....in other words switch scales for tanks only). The variety is better and since they're all the same scale and the xd figures are big anyway you'd not really notice the over scale-ness of them. I'd still collect everything else in 1/18, just the tanks would all be 1/16.

With there now being a PIV and affordable KT in 1/16 it is even more attractive. There are already T-34's, PIII's and soon to be a Stug III and KV 1 plus all the stuff that aleady exists in that scale. Might be an idea to dump my 1/18 tanks on Ebay and collect 1/16 armour together with 1/18 planes.

Hm.

[smittyrob64]

I have 3 of these. 1/16 A PzIII cost $39, 2 Tiger 1's $139 ea.
Tigers came with metal tracks, drive sprockets and idlers. A transmitter, battery and metal gearboxes.

They run great are well detailed and there is every imaginable
upgrade part available, from working led machine guns to PE clamps, bolts, and other miniscule part for those willing to go that far.
The fact you can drive them around or even just start up the engines makes them lot of fun.