Sticker Shock----Complain now and lose the 1/18 line

[VMF115]

Sticker Shock

If all the complaining about the prices increase is any indication, here is a brief example of what could happen



21st century toys is sad to announce the we will no longer be producing our Extreme detail and the 1/32 line, It has come as a shock to all of us that you no longer wish to support this line due to cost increases that are not our fault. However we will be producing a whole new line of 1/72 scale war birds and armor. This scale will be more profitable to us and we can bring you more variety in subjects.



A few weeks later Bbi announce planes to leave the 1/18 market all together, selling their molds to Globe


After a few months after the release of Admiral Toys SDB AT announces that they will produce the A-1 and some of their 1/72 scale amour, and will announce plans to leave making toys and fouces on making plastic parts for consumer durable goods. Later on we may reevaluate the toy market as prices and wages become more stable.

You guys have t o remember they do check out these website just because they don’t post does not mean they are don’t check this website out. And they do take heart to what is said….remember what some folks said about AT SDB landing gear sitting to low, well Jason decided to retool that part and other parts that he thought did not look right. Or we might have had it by now. Look at the 88 Flak, 21st is making it after some folks wanted it made. as for the other like the F-4- B-25 well the

If 21st sees that we are unwilling to pay extra money for an object, they may see a good enough reason to bow out of 1/18 citing the main reason is the back lash of a price increase.


If you never seen the Me-262B night fighter in 1/18th pre assembled and pre painted, how much would you guess it would cost? I would say 400 to 500 dollars. I had a few folks ask me how much and I tell them they sell for 79.00 USD. They are shocked at how little they go for.

Manufactures did listen not one but two said they would make one, well one had to bow up due to market saturation, but they started to listen and they come up to home plate. Now what do think the F-4 will cost…I doubt that it will sell for 89 USD if we ever see one. I hope too, but after all the back lash about high prices I doubt we will ever see the big jets , any time soon if ever.

We all bare reasonability in this hobby, what you write and say can and does inpact this hobby in a negative or positive way.


I think for the most part we are a bit spoiled don’t you think?

[GooglyDoogly]

Oh wells. Life goes on.

[VMF115]

Oh wells. Life goes on.

[CW4USARMY]

Pricing themselves out of existence isnt our fault. If they fold up due to extreme price increases rather than extreme detail, then I'll move on to other brands and/or lines.

[VMF115]

I guess we all should just say good bye to 1/18th because I can tell you one thing the rest of them are going to raise their prices too, not just 21st.
Crips you guys act like its 21st fault that they have to rise their prices, and they are sticking it to us collectors……get real,,,I don’t think 21st said lets raise prices just for the heck of it.


The 1/18 line the way we know it, will be dead before the year is over.

[GooglyDoogly]

21st century toys is sad to announce the we will no longer be producing our Extreme detail and the 1/32 line, It has come as a shock to all of us that you no longer wish to support this line due to cost increases that are not our fault. However we will be producing a whole new line of 1/72 scale war birds and armor. This scale will be more profitable to us and we can bring you more variety in subjects.

This also happened in 1/6th scale. But guess what? That scale didn't die despite 21st leaving it for the most part. In fact, more and more companies joined the fray, and instead of trying to grossly profit without improving their products, those new companies actually ELEVATED the 1/6th line in terms of accuracy and details, while offering them at a slightly higher price.

While 21st's 1/6th stuff remained toyish, and at some point, actually gotten worse! Did anyone remember those god-awful 21st face sculpts?

A few weeks later Bbi announce planes to leave the 1/18 market all together, selling their molds to Globe


After a few months after the release of Admiral Toys SDB AT announces that they will produce the A-1 and some of their 1/72 scale amour, and will announce plans to leave making toys and fouces on making plastic parts for consumer durable goods. Later on we may reevaluate the toy market as prices and wages become more stable.

Wow, amazing that a giant like BBI would base their financila decision on a small (relative to BBI) company like 21st.

You guys have t o remember they do check out these website just because they don’t post does not mean they are don’t check this website out. And they do take heart to what is said….remember what some folks said about AT SDB landing gear sitting to low, well Jason decided to retool that part and other parts that he thought did not look right. Or we might have had it by now.

Yep, and Jason (AT) actually listened to us and showed us the reason of the delay. We appreciate that. They took our input, and modified their product to make it better.

21st? Oh, that's right. We're not a majority of their buyers so, oh wells on our opinion, am I right?

Look at the 88 Flak, 21st is making it after some folks wanted it made. as for the other like the F-4- B-25 well the

Uh...sure. Of COURSE they were planning on releasing the F-4, B-25, and the MiG-21...I mean, they even made fancy graphics to show us.

It's TOTALLY not to screw with their competitors' plans. Oh no sir.

If 21st sees that we are unwilling to pay extra money for an object, they may see a good enough reason to bow out of 1/18 citing the main reason is the back lash of a price increase.

Hey, I'm willing to pay extra for a gorgeous thing like their 88mm...as for the King Tiger? Heck no. Their King Tiger is equal in detail as the PTE A-10 warthog is.

Meaning, it LOOKS like a King Tiger, but anyone with the SLIGHTEST knowledge about it would go, "Ew". Like the PTE A-10. It looks like an A-10.

If you never seen the Me-262B night fighter in 1/18th pre assembled and pre painted, how much would you guess it would cost? I would say 400 to 500 dollars. I had a few folks ask me how much and I tell them they sell for 79.00 USD. They are shocked at how little they go for.

And I'm guessing those people aren't die-hard modellers?

The reason why Tamiya, Trumpeter, Dragon model's large aircraft models (1/32) are so pricey, is because those aircraft are actually so freaking detailed. Every bolts is counted. Not so with the 1/18th planes. Give it to an experienced modellers and he'll quickly point out a hundred mistake on it.

Now what do think the F-4 will cost…I doubt that it will sell for 89 USD if we ever see one. I hope too, but after all the back lash about high prices I doubt we will ever see the big jets , any time soon if ever.

Don't blame that on 21st's bashers. Or do you still believe that 21st actually was SERIOUS about selling the F-4 for 89.99? Or did they just do it to screw AT?

Let's call a lemon a lemon.

We all bare reasonability in this hobby, what you write and say can and does inpact this hobby in a negative or positive way.

Not according to 21st. As they pointed out to us, we don't even register as a blip to them in terms of sales.

I think for the most part we are a bit spoiled don’t you think?

No I think you got it backwards. 21st's business practices has long been excused and for the most part, coddled for a long time.

[[CAT]CplSlade]

All this back-and-forth about 21st makes me feel like I'm on the Electronic Arts forums just after they've released yet another buggy PC game.

[tmanthegreat]

I think GG is onto something. Again, we as collectors are NOT the determining factor with 21c, BBI , or most other companies so stop trying to act as if we are. If 21c folds (and they almost did several years ago) it will be their fault due to poor decisions. For us, life will go on and we will find new ventures. Sure, we won't have their products any more, but that is not the end of the world

About a decade ago, I was very big into the Action Fleet lineup made by Galoob, which was also a northern California based, family owned company like 21c. Then the company folded in 1997, leaving some of their proposed works incomplete - and they were really going to make some neat and unique pieces! Sure that meant there would be no more pint-sized Star Wars ships and whatever else for me, but I found (for better or worse) new collecting venues. 21c products being one of them.

Placing your entire life and well being on a toyline doesn't make much sense. Enjoy what you have for the sake of having it

[aferguson]

you know, i've been in this hobby pretty much from day 1 and i've lived through all the ups and downs of 21c. At this point, this is just another thing. If the scale dies, then it dies. All our analysis, bitching etc will not make one iota of difference.

If 21c needs to raises prices to these levels then so be it. If sales support this price level, then the hobby will continue, if they don't then the hobby will fade. After 7 1/2 years of waiting and waiting and waiting for certain key pieces to be produced but which have, for the most part never seen the light of day, endless hype and promises that were never near as exciting as we were lead to believe, expectations that often have fallen short, i'm honestly at the point where i dont' really care so much.

que sera sera

[CW4USARMY]

you know, i've been in this hobby pretty much from day 1 and i've lived through all the ups and downs of 21c. At this point, this is just another thing. If the scale dies, then it dies. All our analysis, bitching etc will not make one iota of difference.

If 21c needs to raises prices to these levels then so be it. If sales support this price level, then the hobby will continue, if they don't then the hobby will fade. After 7 1/2 years of waiting and waiting and waiting for certain key pieces to be produced but which have, for the most part never seen the light of day, endless hype and promises that were never near as exciting as we were lead to believe, expectations that often have fallen short, i'm honestly at the point where i dont' really care so much.

que sera sera

Strongly Agree!

[USCGSARdog]

So VMF, correct me if I'm wrong, but my interpretation of your original post is that those who don't like the price increases should keep their opinions to themselves so that the manufacturers won't get spooked and close up shop? Please, don't you think that is a bit dramatic? I can see the price of oil causing price hikes, but like GD and Tman stated, do you honestly think the manufacturers give a rip about what we, the smallest part of their sales base, says? Much less, do you really think they are dumb enough to base critical business decisions on the ramblings of grown adults who play with toys?(That includes myself )

If anything you should thank us. If it weren't for our bitching, you probably would be paying $500 a pop for these planes.



-Rob

[olifant]

I care if 1/18 goest the way of the dodo and plan to support 21C by buying their new releases.

Would everyone really mind killing off the 1/18 forum due to lack of interest and shifting to the focus to the dynamically growing 1/32 line? I know that is not what was stated but that is my question...

[Teamski]

you know, i've been in this hobby pretty much from day 1 and i've lived through all the ups and downs of 21c. At this point, this is just another thing. If the scale dies, then it dies. All our analysis, bitching etc will not make one iota of difference.

If 21c needs to raises prices to these levels then so be it. If sales support this price level, then the hobby will continue, if they don't then the hobby will fade. After 7 1/2 years of waiting and waiting and waiting for certain key pieces to be produced but which have, for the most part never seen the light of day, endless hype and promises that were never near as exciting as we were lead to believe, expectations that often have fallen short, i'm honestly at the point where i dont' really care so much.

que sera sera

Strongly Agree!

Word!

[FieroDude]

I am quite confident that the 1/18 hobby will go on, regardless of what 21st does. They can eliminate 1/18 and focus on 1/32 or 1/48 or 1/144, or whatever scale/niche works best for them. Someone will step in to fill the void. bbi might even ramp up their offering--I think 21st is one reason they have cut back new releases over the past couple years. Not because of the competition (their Corsair, Mustang, and Sherman offerings show that isn't a concern), but because why fight for shelf space when you can make a fortune on Hello Kitty and other stuff?
And take a look at new entries over the past 2-3 years. Admiral, FOV, and Pegasus. And more may come, if 21st decides to take their toys and go home--a market economy loves to fill a void, both in product and price range. Take away some of the issues of the past year or two (psst, someone plans to make something cool--let's announce that we plan to make one, too, and cheaper!!!!), and other manufacturers will be more inclined to expand their offerings. And maybe these other manufacturers will actually produce what they suggest, in (or close to) the time frames they propose.

As far as 21st and the new pricing: I consider it an experiment. If they can make it stick, and sell a large enough volume, then it will be here to stay and it will likely ripple through their other products ($12.99 for figures, anyone? Or $129 P-51D repaints?). And if they can actually improve their quality and detail CONSISTENTLY to justify the price, more power to them--they will have evolved from a discount manufacturer to a mid-line to a premium. If they are really smart, they will try to maintain a presence in all categories--look at GM or Ford: you can buy essentially the same vehicle at multiple price ranges, from reasonable (a bare bones Yukon) to "high end" (Denali package) to pure capitalistic ostentation (Cadillac Escalade). All depends on how much you want to pay for what is, at its heart, the same vehicle, and how much extra trim and detail you feel you want to pay for. However, selling an Escort at Lincoln Town Car prices won't cut it.

[STUKA]

it is all the 1:32 crowds fault and um hmm 1:6

[tko211]

As far as 21st and the new pricing: I consider it an experiment. If they can make it stick, and sell a large enough volume, then it will be here to stay and it will likely ripple through their other products ($12.99 for figures, anyone? Or $129 P-51D repaints?). And if they can actually improve their quality and detail CONSISTENTLY to justify the price, more power to them--they will have evolved from a discount manufacturer to a mid-line to a premium. If they are really smart, they will try to maintain a presence in all categories--look at GM or Ford: you can buy essentially the same vehicle at multiple price ranges, from reasonable (a bare bones Yukon) to "high end" (Denali package) to pure capitalistic ostentation (Cadillac Escalade). All depends on how much you want to pay for what is, at its heart, the same vehicle, and how much extra trim and detail you feel you want to pay for. However, selling an Escort at Lincoln Town Car prices won't cut it.

BINGO! This is well stated and it saved me a lot of typing.

I don't have a crystal ball, and for those that know me on a personal level know that I truly am not on site at 21C to listen in on all that they discuss and plan. But this new push to develop larger, more detailed 1:18 products have me wondering if indeed there is a bit of a push to see what the fan reaction might be to a more premium product and a premium price. I also agree that 1:18 is not dead or that 21C will even stop doing it. But we might see more and more 1:18 move in this direction.

[Jesse James]

(Meant for humor, not insult, so just have fun and a laugh about it please)

BTW I'd add this...

You give that KT a FULL interior, removable shells, ammo cans, etc., and a full crew with removable caps...

I'd probably buy it, even at $100.00. Same goes for the 88... Give me a full crew for it, some spent and live ammo, and I'm probably down for a $100.00 cannon too. For me it's just a matter of meeting my expectations per price.

Much like the FOV tanks... For $30 or whatever, I'm not expecting a balls to the wall tank. For $50 I'm expecting more... For $100, I'm expecting a lot. It's simple consumer economics.

[Birddog]

I am quite confident that the 1/18 hobby will go on, regardless of what 21st does. They can eliminate 1/18 and focus on 1/32 or 1/48 or 1/144, or whatever scale/niche works best for them. Someone will step in to fill the void. bbi might even ramp up their offering--I think 21st is one reason they have cut back new releases over the past couple years. Not because of the competition (their Corsair, Mustang, and Sherman offerings show that isn't a concern), but because why fight for shelf space when you can make a fortune on Hello Kitty and other stuff?
And take a look at new entries over the past 2-3 years. Admiral, FOV, and Pegasus. And more may come, if 21st decides to take their toys and go home--a market economy loves to fill a void, both in product and price range. Take away some of the issues of the past year or two (psst, someone plans to make something cool--let's announce that we plan to make one, too, and cheaper!!!!), and other manufacturers will be more inclined to expand their offerings. And maybe these other manufacturers will actually produce what they suggest, in (or close to) the time frames they propose.

As far as 21st and the new pricing: I consider it an experiment. If they can make it stick, and sell a large enough volume, then it will be here to stay and it will likely ripple through their other products ($12.99 for figures, anyone? Or $129 P-51D repaints?). And if they can actually improve their quality and detail CONSISTENTLY to justify the price, more power to them--they will have evolved from a discount manufacturer to a mid-line to a premium. If they are really smart, they will try to maintain a presence in all categories--look at GM or Ford: you can buy essentially the same vehicle at multiple price ranges, from reasonable (a bare bones Yukon) to "high end" (Denali package) to pure capitalistic ostentation (Cadillac Escalade). All depends on how much you want to pay for what is, at its heart, the same vehicle, and how much extra trim and detail you feel you want to pay for. However, selling an Escort at Lincoln Town Car prices won't cut it.

Right on my man!!!

The $40 price tag has been a helluva steal for 1/18 aircraft to begin with. Face it, the only reason they were sold at that price was probably due to the huge quantities ordered by Wal-Mart. The reason we are still seeing them at TRU at that same price is because the molds have been paid for with those initial huge orders. Just like bbi at Target.

I believe the 1/18 scale will continue, it just might be at a higher price with fewer numbers of a subject produced.

[pickelhaube]

Man , I sure wish they come out with something quick in 1/18 scale . All of you guys need to lighten up quit wringing your hands and think positive. There will be more 1/18 toys . But just like the gas prices now a days. Buy the gas or stay home. Buy the toys or quit whining. I don't want to step on any toes. But the KT is comming it will be expensive at $100. I will accept that. But not the price of the FOV at $350 or more. Oh wich I have 3. But they do have soooo much detail and a handy crate as well.
It is OK to hate me today.

[AlloySkull]

I think we need to look at the lighter side of things, much like has been stated before. Instead of converting from avid collectors, we transform into doomsday preachers. 1:18 won't die. It's not my specialty but I buy certain pieces. That 88 is well worth the money. It's BEAUTIFUL. For God's sake, you know those early 70's 26-30 inch tiny skateboards? Thought they were gone, a relic of the past?

No. There are at least 8 different companies that sell something similiar, or, re-issues. It's not a huge market, compared to street skating (popular with most younger people and almost all pros now are street skaters). But because of demand from older guys, and old-style skaters (such as myself) (maybe a less than 10% minority) Those fishtails from the '80s, in all shapes, sizes, and graphics, are produced by almost 50% of companies. Longboards as well. Yeah, some carbon-fibre, fibreglass and other boards are expensive as hell, but you get better performance in some regards.

So maybe 21c is cracking the knuckles with the Tiger II, Jabbing right with the 88 and god knows what the left fist is going to bring. For all we know those two legs may just drop kick our whiny asses, balls to the wall on detail...Something we don't expect. But you think not. Ha, you'll get dropped like a stone, robbed of 80 bucks, and end up with your new crown jewel. First to find it, props.

I've learned to look at brighter things, at the same time reality is an unrealiable precursor to the future. I used to mope around when I was stuck in hospitals and dried up, tied, and dead to the world. (In my head) But I said screw it, and left all that crap behind.

- Stephen a.k.a. Fangs.


Pardon my French. Believe me, "drop kick our whiny booties" sounded really weak.

Please pardon me as I listen to, and agree with, Pink Floyd's Money.

[Buckyroo]

What other market has seen an equally low level of price increases over the past 8 years? When you look at the development, the increase in detail, and the logistics of creating new AC, the cost (to consumers) has been pretty much a flat line for 21st (and others).

Everyone has a personal value on all products they purchase. If your upper level acceptable cost for 1/18 AC is $50.00 then you may move away from this stuff. For me, I enjoy 1/18 AC, I don't have the skill or time to create custom work, so a price increase will not turn me away. I may be more selective in my purchases, but I will still wait to see the next AC to come down the line.

My $.02



Kris

[coreystinson]

I think GG is onto something. Again, we as collectors are NOT the determining factor with 21c, BBI , or most other companies so stop trying to act as if we are.

I would say that this may change if 21st reverts to release product strictly to the specialty market. Then, I believe collectors such as the those on this forum, will play a more vital role.

Certainly, if I was 21st and reading some of these threads I would be worried. But, then again, they have feedback channels coming back from more sources than just this forum.

[King O' Fools]

The interesting thing about this new price hike strategy is that now that everyone will be forced to buy their toys from etailers, no one will be able to check the paint job of anything they order, so the big shots at San Leandro had better improve their QC processes or, with $100 toys, most etailers are going to have to deal with returns by the dozen.

Unless anyone here really thinks the quality will go up in keeping with the price... Now THAT would be a 180 degree turn.

[VMF115]

KOF what kind of perfection are you looking for?

[AlloySkull]

Yeah, I've gotten absolutely awesome pieces. I even have obsessive compulsive disorder, and a tiny flaw doesn't bother me. Why? Because I love the aircraft, and I believe 21st does a DAMN GOOD JOB representing them.

Yeah, I've ran across some bad paint jobs. But I'm just here, enjoying my planes and armor that have real paint schemes, researched by a team of dedicated guys, and they COULD market it as only a toy. Which they really are, but not too many toys keep to accuracy this well. Every once in awhile we've had some accuracy issues, but in reality, mistakes happen.

King O' Fools, I understand exactly where you're coming from, and yeah, I'd be pissed too. I agree that 21c should hike up QC. But, it suprises me that every plane you get sucks. I'm sorry about that, I'm not looking for an argument on 21c.