1/18th Sherman comments...

binder001 · Post by **binder001** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:49 pm

I just saw an FoV 1/18th M4A3 Sherman at Target. Interesting, but it carries some baggage from the 1/32nd scale version. Here are some quick comments from a "Shermanoholic".

FoV - Very heavy (Too heavy IMHO) texture on the turret. I couldn't tell from the box, but the photos look like it has the same front transmission cover with a HUGE seam in the middle and poor profile. The basic hull profile looks nice, but it has an early hull and late turret (note the loader's escape hatch). I didn't buy one and open it - I'm wondering if it has the same error on the right side applique armor as the 1/32 version. This was the "low end" version for Target - I didn't see any accessories or figures with it. The produced a DECENT M4A3. One trivia - these earlier M4A3s didn't go overseas until about 1945! Most were held in the US for training. Many went through a rebuild program - which is why so many of the early M4A3 tanks in movies, collections and preserved as monuments have late features on them. These did see combat with the US Army in Europe and on Okinawa. Except that its only $20.00 at Target I wasn't very excited by this one, except if I can get it cheaper as a "parts donor".

21C - Copied DIRECTLY from the 1/35th Tamiya M4 (unfortunately). Not really too bad. Hull has right profile, turret is good. The inner gun shield has much better detail than FoV. Drivers' hatches are a bit too big so that we can get figures in and out. The applique armor is in the right spots. This one represents an M4. These saw combat with the US and British primarily. The suspension has a very late type bogie - only matters to us fanatics, but it bothers the heck out of me. FoV made the earlier type. Don't know if they could be swapped. Comes with some stowage and a figure, but changing the stowage leaves big holes in the tank. Hinges are rather big because 21C wanted them to operate. Does have better weld lines than the FoV.

BBI - represents an M4A3 with late hull and 105mm howitzer. Haven't seen this one in person yet to see how it matches in size with the 21C version. This one looks quite good in the photos. I'd like to pick one up someday for rebuilding into a display model.

These are just a few observations. I'd be interested in seeing other comments on these tanks. I usually do 1/32nd, but I like the idea of taking one of these and rebuilding it to "model" standards.

Gary

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:11 pm

Hey Gary, I too am a Shermanoholic named Gary. Your observation match mine about the FOV version. I have an extra 21st early turret that I may replace the FOV's late turret with. I have a BBI and 21st displayed together and they are pretty close as far as size goes.

Commo Man Dan · Post by **Commo Man Dan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:43 am

While searching the Inet to purchase a 21st 1:18 Sherman I saw this site and another guy who was after the same thing.
You all helped him with an Ebay link that is now expired..
I have the 21st staff car and half track (not weathered just green plastic)and really need a sherman to complete the set. I bought the others in West Virginia Walmart about a year ago. Trapped here in "Debters Prison" (Working Iraq) so pretty much limited to on-line aquisitions for now.

Neat to see their are other guys that like the stuff as much as I do.

Suspect its just a matter for time before they make another run of the 1:18 green Shermans.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:49 am

Commo Man Dan wrote:While searching the Inet to purchase a 21st 1:18 Sherman I saw this site and another guy who was after the same thing.
You all helped him with an Ebay link that is now expired..
I have the 21st staff car and half track (not weathered just green plastic)and really need a sherman to complete the set. I bought the others in West Virginia Walmart about a year ago. Trapped here in "Debters Prison" (Working Iraq) so pretty much limited to on-line aquisitions for now.

Neat to see their are other guys that like the stuff as much as I do.

Suspect its just a matter for time before they make another run of the 1:18 green Shermans.

Forces of Valor came out with Shermans in 1/18 scale about 6 months ago.
Target is the only place that carried them and I don't think they were online.
If you go into the Buy/Sell/Trade section of this board and read the rules, 6 months from now - one of the board members may be able to hook you up with a Sherman.

Until then, I would check Ebay for a 21st or FOV Sherman. BBI also makes a really nice Sherman as well.

Commo Man Dan · Post by **Commo Man Dan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:04 am

Razor,

Thanks for your suggestion. I have been using Ebay motors for airplane stuff (my hobby is flying) and military vehicle section. There was a perfect restored sherman tank about 6 months ago, well worth the $100K it finally sold for.
Guess its time to learn more about eBay.

Think I will stay with 21st as I want my Shermans finish to match the other vehicles in my display.

Thanks again, Dan

General Blasto · Post by **General Blasto** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:07 am

Yep, both the FOV and BBI Shermies are nice. I have more than several, but have never found them in the stores

I have many 21st C versions, but I know in the future that some of the Shermies will be modified into or used for projects including the M-24 Kitbashes, M-7 kitbashes and perhaps a M-36 Jackson or another Tank destroyer that uses the Sherman platform for it's build. You'll see 'em someday in the Customs forum

Da General

Commo Man Dan · Post by **Commo Man Dan** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:14 am

Wow,

Perfect, there are two for sale on eBay now. My problem was the link was hooking me up to Ebay UK. everthing is better in the USA

thanks for your help,

Dan

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 7:19 am

Cool.

Keep your head down over there and be safe!

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Thu Mar 13, 2008 5:45 pm

Dan, glad you found this site. I am sure the 21st Century Sherman will be out agan someday. Do you keep your stuf with you in Iraq or do you have it have it sent home for later messing with?

Commo Man Dan · Post by **Commo Man Dan** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 5:33 am

Hard to have "things" here

I got to carry it in on my lap or get it smushed into the back of a Humvee. I have it good (Site lead, it "my" commo room) but, this place Is a COP. No running water. We burn our shit and trash. Wash from water bottles & water buffalo. Its best if all you own fits in a foot locker and rucksack. I think you have got me thinking this place does need a cool model

We are occupying a plastics injection factory - like living in a dirty garage in USA.

I have the 1:18 P-38 in my california storage. Was hanging up in the rental unit attached and my tenant loved it (Her mom served on a P-38 training base in WWII). I removed rockets and bombs "very clean"

My two 1:18 armor in my West Virgina "Dungeon" (basement home) will be displayed in a place of honor. I had shelf built and half track will be first, command car second, and Shermie last. There was an old movie where Charles Bronson and some WWII vets fought the nieghbor hood gang. One of the old vets was Earnest Borgnine and he had some model tanks on his fireplace mantle. The 30 cal macnine gun and M-1 garand he brought back with him from his WWII soldering helped kick the thugs butts. Anyway, trying for that look with my armor. A friend suggested some Faux sand bags to add to the motief.. I love this stuff!
When I get the Sherman all three will be displayed there. kinda like the convoys I ride in

I will for sure get photos to enjoy my home when I'm bored here.

You bring up a good idea. I might get some of the modern stuff sent here. My infantry guys are leaving next month (surge) and mechanized guys from fort hood will be replacing them.
I saw the photo of the new Bradley here on the web site. I bet the mech guys would enjoy something like that here. Really get them talking about there "Brad" adventures... They will be forced to go light with Humvees now as its basically Kill or capture missions. And dodging IEDs

Thanks again, Dan

momaw nadon · Post by **momaw nadon** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 3:20 pm

I think too many carry on about the Sherman (21st, bbi, and now the FOV) being inaccurate, but one thing you have to remember about Shermans are they were one of the most field modified vehicle during WWII, if not the most modified of the war. If you think about it anything that you could think of was most likely done. Even a Chrysler powering Ford or vise versus. If a Sherman was damaged, but they didn’t have parts for that certain variation and needed it in the field, they would use what parts on hand. Even if it was old boggies on a newer model or newer turret on an older model. I would think it happened. So any of these late and early models would be a mix and match of anything they could find or get their hands on, as the Sherman was not that strong to being with. Only real advantage the Sherman had in the European threader was they numbers. Just something to think about when looking over you Shermans next time

.

momaw nadon

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Fri Mar 14, 2008 6:21 pm

While it is true that there were many interchangable part on the Sherman. The engine is not one. The Chrysler Multibank engine found in the M4A4 required a longer hull be designed. It would not fit in a Ford powered hull. The Ford powered hull was longer then the M4 hull because the radial engine in the M4 takes up less room then the Ford. Also the access hatches don't match up with were you need access. The US Army also tried to standerdize the Sherman varients they used. The M4 and M4A1 were some of the original varients used. They ran an a type of aircraft fuel because of the radial engine. The diesel engined M4A2 was used by the US Marines, some Commenwealth countries initaly and the Soviets. The gas powered Ford M4A3 was the standerized tank used by the US Army and later by the US Marines. The Commonwealth countries primary modeL was the Chrysler Multi bank powered M4A4.
There are two basic turrets used on the Sherman; The 76mm T23 turret and the original 75mm turret. However the 75mm had a later modification that raised the rear turret bustle to clear the driver and codrivers new style and larger hatches. So it is true you could have a later 75mm turret on an early hull, but not the 76mm because it wouldn't clear the hatches on an early hull. For the same reason you couldn't put the early turret on the later hull with the larger hatches. Your driver and co driver would be trapped in certain conditions.

Commo Man Dan · Post by **Commo Man Dan** » Sat Mar 15, 2008 8:40 pm

Reguarding the Sherman radial aircraft engine. This has always fascinated me. Do you guys know what engine was used? I would guess it was the Wright 9 cylander same as on the B-17. The few times I have seen a Sherman in person I always look into the engine compartment trying to see one in person. The Sherman at the General patton musem in Chiraco summit California has an empty engine compartment and its size indicates it was a radial engine.
Did any other tanks use radial engines? Thanks, Dan

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:38 pm

Dan , I found this info concerning the radial in the Sherman. It was a Continental R975 C1; 9 cylinder, 4 cycle, radial gasoline engine. I know the M3 Lee and the M3 Stuart had radial engine version s also. Not sure of any other non Sherman based vehicles that did.

Commo Man Dan · Post by **Commo Man Dan** » Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:01 am

Grockwood,

You da sherMAN, I searched on that info and found this great link

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/sherm ... 3625941454

Unfortuantely the army is protecting me from the videos (firewall) but if some one gets a chance maybe you can enjoy the sights and sound of the Old Shermies radial coughing to life.

I have heard about these WWII vehicle collectors in Belgium before. lots of the owners remember Americans coming in and rescuing thier nation from the Nazis.

Naturally Left quite an imprint on them.

Continental R975, one of my lifes mysteries now solved

BTW got two 1/18 shermans on Ebay yesterday. Cost about $110 with shipping.
One has no paint on the boggey wheels, the other has it and light black dusting on hull. I have to wait until May vacation to enjoy them in person

Thanks for you help, Dan

binder001 · Post by **binder001** » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:47 am

re: parts - yes, some parts COULD be used on other tanks. Photos show that wartime tanks OFTEN kept many of the features that they left the factory with. Besides there are things that weren't field modified. When 21C screws up the shape and size of the drivers' hatches - that's no field mod (although they REALYY screwed the pooch on the 1/32 version!).

As stated, the engines were not interchangeable. The Israelis and a few others did it with what amounted to factory rebuilding of the tanks (they ended up with Cummins diesels). Engines were; M4 and M4A1 had the 475hp Continental R975 (based on the Wright Whirldwind design) radial gas engines, the M4A2 had twin GM 6-71 diesels (two truck/bus diesels on a common transfer case), the M4A3 had the Ford GAA 500hp V-8 gas engine ( derived from a 12-cyl airplane engine design), the M4A4 had the unusual Chrysler Multibank (five 6-cyl car engines arranged like a radial for a total of 30 cylinders) and the M4A6 (few produced) has Cat diesels. The R975 also powered versions of the M3 medium, the M40 SP 155mm, the M12 SP 155mm, the M7 "Priest" and the M18 tank destroyer, and the chassis variations of these vehicles. The Ford engines powered most M36 TDs, some later M10s, later M7s (M7B1 and M7B2) and a later version, the GAF, powered the M26 "Pershing". The twin GM diesels were also used on most M10s and some M10s rebuilt to M36s (the M36B2). The US Army preferred the R975 and GAA engines, most of the others went to Lend-Lease. The Marines ended up with M4A2s with diesels because that was all the Army had to send them at the time. The Russians only wanted diesels in their Lend-Lease tanks if at all possible. The British ended up with Continental, GM diesel and Chryler multibank engines. The Free French had M4A2s, M4A4s and later received M4A3 and M4A1 76mm types - what a mess for logistics!

Turrets - there were a FEW early 75mm turrets used on late hull M4A3 75mm tanks -apparently the factory was using up castings. There are photos of them in use in Europe. Otherwise the 75mm, 76mm and 105mm turrets were not interchanged between types. The turrets all had a 69-inch turret race ring, but the internal fittings were quite different.

Thanks for wading through all this.

digger · Post by **digger** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:45 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/Army-Tank_W0QQitemZ ... dZViewItem

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:16 pm

Hmm... Tempting for that price. Some parts are missing like the MG, but nothing that can't really be fixed

kimtheredxd · Post by **kimtheredxd** » Sat Mar 22, 2008 10:56 pm

went cheap

or since its easter CHEEP

kimtheredxd · Post by **kimtheredxd** » Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:31 am

Bought it will see what condition it is in.But for that price guess you cant loose much

kimtheredxd · Post by **kimtheredxd** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:38 pm

Got it in mail today not bad for $5.50

Only thing missing is the figure, machine gun and "post" on front side of commanders hatch side and the lifting hook on the top front off turret.
First die-cast piece I have owned man i do like the weight to it real nice.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

1/18th Sherman comments...

1/18th Sherman comments...

Sherman radial engine

Sherman parts...

good deal