a Rant of sorts.

boyx30 · Post by **boyx30** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:59 pm

Sorry Andrew, feel free to move his to another heading if necessary.

I feel at times we are hand cuffed to our hobby by tickling or trickling information leaking from the different companies only to be either dissapointed or be held hostage over a long period of time. Remember the B-25? ya!...me too..but....????...Remember the Me-110..ya me too...but....???. The forum can be a mixed blessing at times. The good part is all you guys (and gals) who share in the vaue of WWII and other wars history and we can all share our likes and favorites with each other. Personally my wife and kids think I'm nuts and need to grow up. By the way I'm 45 have three boys and my father retired from Locheed Missles and Space divison. My grandfather worked for Kelly Johnson and the Skunk Works...so it is in my blood and I will never stop reading or collecting even though I might hate at times the way Walmart or Toys R Us and the manufactures keep us at bey (spelling?) sorry the Cabernet is affecting the key board...I should never have let my lap-top drink?..I wish we simply could get what we need when it is promised at a fair price...profit is a good thing C-21, Admiral and BBI so please do not construe this as a cost "thing"...you sell a good product at a fair price...but please stop the tease thing....it's getting old. Okay this is the last time I say this...it would be great to see 1/18th scale WWI (Fly Boys or Red Baron) stuff, it would sell big time and I'm sure the folks on this site would agree (?). I apologise for ranting..I love this site and the comradery although I rarely post you are all great..BTW Jason you are tops on the "direct" list in my book. Best wishes to all and Happy Holidays.
Scott

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:04 pm

Hey Scott,
I feel your pain my XD comrade.
Matthew

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:06 pm

I am with you Scott. I had saved a place for a 1/18th scale B-25, but that slot has been takin by a couple of FOV Abrams tanks.

Timbo · Post by **Timbo** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:20 pm

Well at least you'll have an F-4 from 21st to fill that hole the B-25 has left. Oh wait, I guess you won't...

Sabrefan · Post by **Sabrefan** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:24 pm

I really wish that 21st Century would have waited to announce the B-25 after the model was in production. Wouldn't it be great to go to the 21st Century site and see that the B-25 is in production, or on the water heading this way? I have no idea why they would announce something as cool as an 1/18th B-25, and not give us some clue to when it will be on the market.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:57 pm

Sabrefan wrote:I really wish that 21st Century would have waited to announce the B-25 after the model was in production. Wouldn't it be great to go to the 21st Century site and see that the B-25 is in production, or on the water heading this way? I have no idea why they would announce something as cool as an 1/18th B-25, and not give us some clue to when it will be on the market.

*cough*21st tried to outshine AT, so they announced both F-4 and the B-25, but they have nothing to show for it*cough*

Man this cold weather is really getting to me...

Grilledcheese · Post by **Grilledcheese** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:07 pm

I'm with you dude on the WWI stuff, and pretty much everything else. Happy Holidays right back at you, and everybody else.

Oh, and pass the Cabernet, will ya?

My keyboard's thirsty too.

Jeffrey

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:16 pm

Yes and it's unnecessary. FoV and Corgi both do a great job issuing a catalog well ahead of the product release. They label each item as Spring 08, Fall 08, etc.. and pretty much hit their deadlines.

Star Wars has their Wave concept. Again same thing. We're going to make these eight figures, then these eight, then these eight, etc..

I know that BBI is in "every deal is a deal" mode so their stuff will continue to be somewhat random. The glimpses we get are typically from trade shows where they are wooing distributors. Can't blame BBI if no one puts in an order.

Admiral has understandably gone to ground after the F-4 incident.

21C is a mystery.. The image of a wheel of fortune with XD prototypes nailed to it pops into mind. It would certainly explain the shelves at TRU filled with quad trailers and Vietnam figures.

75th Ranger · Post by **75th Ranger** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:40 am

I'm under the effects of the BEER but I think...that the companies need to start delivering soon and on a regular basis or they may lose more and more costumers....by the way WHERE ARE THE PLATOON figures I can't find them....and then I was thinking there was a Santa Claus after all.....

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 5:27 am

my take on the current status of 21c is this: i think things were really starting to roll with them and then boom...they lost the WM deal. WM may continue to carry some figures but i think the big box items are history.

So, now, the only major retailer 21c has is TRU....and TRU may not be interested in big box items either (by big box i basically mean airplanes...TRU seems to be carrying armor and i assume will get the KT and 88 ). As evidence of this, note that the Me 262 has not shown up at TRU.

So, 21c is in a position of having several large airplane projects on the go (F4, Mig21, B25) but no major retail outlet...just internet sales. And they may be trying to decide/assess whether sales from internet retailers alone will be sufficient to proceed. I suspect there is much consternation in the 21c camp these days, which would explain the 'flood on news' which never really developed, strange silences and lack of updates on the 3 planes mentioned above.

The sad thing is we would quite possibly have an F4 by now as AT was targeting it for a Christmas release. And while i believe 21c had good intentions when they announced it in Feb of releasing it within a year, things have changed significantly since then, because of WM pulling out.

In addition, Admiral released nothing new in '07, for a variety of reasons and seems to be losing some interest in 1/18 and BBI has released one new item in 2 years (figures aside)....at least they are producing repaints, which is a sign of life at least.

So, the road ahead in '08 is very uncertain, in my view. I can see it being everything from a spectacular year, to a so-so year, to being the end of 1/18 scale military toys altogether.

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:14 am

my take on the current status of 21c is this: i think things were really starting to roll with them and then boom...they lost the WM deal. WM may continue to carry some figures but i think the big box items are history.

I agree.... having your products sold at WM is the holy grail for a company like 21st Century... losing even part of that had to hurt...Ouch.

So, now, the only major retailer 21c has is TRU....and TRU may not be interested in big box items either (by big box i basically mean airplanes...TRU seems to be carrying armor and i assume will get the KT and 88 ). As evidence of this, note that the Me 262 has not shown up at TRU.

Agree here as well. A poster in another thread elswhere told of "being in the industry" (large scale retail sales presumably) and he made the comment that in this business "volume sales are everything", and I take that to mean it's better to sell half a dozen 32X Marder's (or a couple KT's and 88's) than it is to sell one XD Avenger, so it could very well be an issue of shelf space for the "big box" stuff, and the emphasis on volume sales.

digger · Post by **digger** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:41 am

I'm under the effects of the BEER but I think...

21st tried to outshine AT, so they announced both F-4 and the B-25

Probably true. I don't think they were going to let the new kid on the block lay claim to such a famous bird without a fight.

21C is a mystery..

Do not compare AT or 21C to Unimax or Hasbro. It is literally like your local burger joint to McD's. 21C and AT are AMERICAN companies, with I would bet no more than 30 employees each. They simply can't say "we are going to have 1 million transformers on the shelf a week before the movie."

my take on the current status of 21c is this: i think things were really starting to roll with them and then boom...they lost the WM deal. WM may continue to carry some figures but i think the big box items are history.

Probably true.

The sad thing is we would quite possibly have an F4 by now as AT was targeting it for a Christmas release.

Sure. Then why don't we have the Dauntless or the A-1 that were on schedule before the Phantom? Nobody else announced those, did they? Delays happen for unexciting reasons and small companies are at the mercy of a lot of factors - buyers, distribution, factories and freight.

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:53 am

* ....... and tooling or re-tooling , for that matter.

Mitch v MG :p51:

Birddog · Post by **Birddog** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 7:57 am

Sure. Then why don't we have the Dauntless or the A-1 that were on schedule before the Phantom? Nobody else announced those, did they?

Nice thing about the Dauntless and the A-1 is that we have been kept in the loop about their prodcution and that we ARE going to get them.....

It would be very nice to hear what is going on with the F-4, Mig 21, and B-25. A crumb of information on at least one of the three would be appreciated by all at this point.

digger · Post by **digger** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:04 am

It would be very nice to hear what is going on with the F-4, Mig 21, and B-25. A crumb of information on at least one of the three would be appreciated by all at this point.

That is assuming there is a crumb...and I have doubts there even is one. I think it will be a long time (read: maybe never) we see any of those birds from 21C. Prove me wrong 21C, prove me wrong...

grunt1 · Post by **grunt1** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:43 am

digger wrote: Do not compare AT or 21C to Unimax or Hasbro. It is literally like your local burger joint to McD's.

lol..

Ok, using your analogy, both have good burgers in stock every time I go, an interesting monthly special, and neither one serves tofu!

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:55 am

Scott,

You are right. Many of us have expressed our disappointment at the lack of news, or even worse, misleading news from some of the companies.
I must say though, I am surprised at the number of folks who are stepping up and agreeing with you this time around. Typically, the person expressing this frustration at the lack of any info is chastised as "impatient" or a company "basher". Maybe enough folks have finally woken up and realized that we, as solid 1:18 collectors, deserve better from some of these companies than we've been getting.

I also agree that Jason has done a great job of trying to keep us posted about their releases, to the extent that he can given the current competitive environment.

If 21st did lose a Walmart deal (although I thought TKO recently said they didnt) then they should now more than ever take the fans more seriously and respectfully since we are the ones who would be (and do) order from on-line retailers.

Up until this year, I always bought one of every paint scheme of every offering from all companies. I will continue to do so except for 21st. What they did at last Toy fair, and continue to do now, has caused me to reassess my support. If we are truly tired of being taken for granted, then we have to make our voices heard through sales, or lack thereof.

Thanks Scott for bringing this up again. We really need to mobilize and do something about it. Money talks, BS walks!

My 2 cents,

Andy

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:58 am

digger wrote:

"It would be very nice to hear what is going on with the F-4, Mig 21, and B-25...

I think it will be a long time (read: maybe never) we see any of those birds from 21C..."

i completely agree.

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:59 am

digger wrote:
I'm under the effects of the BEER but I think...

Sure. Then why don't we have the Dauntless or the A-1 that were on schedule before the Phantom? Nobody else announced those, did they? Delays happen for unexciting reasons and small companies are at the mercy of a lot of factors - buyers, distribution, factories and freight.

You missed the point. The difference is that Admiral tells us why we dont have them yet, and I can respect that. What has 21st told us about
the F-4, B-25, Mig-21................(enter crickets chirping)

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:03 am

i believe AT would have had the F4 out by Christmas if not for the happenings at Toy Fair in Feb. I think it would have been given a very high priority.

Still...if 21c backs away from it, as may be happening, AT is still good to go on the Phanotom.

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:09 am

What has 21st told us about
the F-4, B-25, Mig-21................(enter crickets chirping)

LOLLL!!!

I agree, but it's just funny to hear you put it that way

As the Aussies say...Good on ya, mate!

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:31 pm

CW4USARMY wrote:Scott,

You are right. Many of us have expressed our disappointment at the lack of news, or even worse, misleading news from some of the companies.
I must say though, I am surprised at the number of folks who are stepping up and agreeing with you this time around. Typically, the person expressing this frustration at the lack of any info is chastised as "impatient" or a company "basher". Maybe enough folks have finally woken up and realized that we, as solid 1:18 collectors, deserve better from some of these companies than we've been getting.

I also agree that Jason has done a great job of trying to keep us posted about their releases, to the extent that he can given the current competitive environment.

If 21st did lose a Walmart deal (although I thought TKO recently said they didnt) then they should now more than ever take the fans more seriously and respectfully since we are the ones who would be (and do) order from on-line retailers.

Up until this year, I always bought one of every paint scheme of every offering from all companies. I will continue to do so except for 21st. What they did at last Toy fair, and continue to do now, has caused me to reassess my support. If we are truly tired of being taken for granted, then we have to make our voices heard through sales, or lack thereof.

Thanks Scott for bringing this up again. We really need to mobilize and do something about it. Money talks, BS walks!

My 2 cents,

Andy

Ever since Toyfair last Spring I said then I wouldn't buy another repaint or duplicate from 21st and I haven't. The only thing I have ordered is the two seat ME-262 since it is different enough. I am letting my wallet speak my mind finally if 21st wants to make claims fine, back them up or I'm going elsewhere. Business is business I agree but if in the attempt your ruining the market for us collectors, we can do without you as well.

digger · Post by **digger** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 12:43 pm

You missed the point. The difference is that Admiral tells us why we dont have them yet

I thought Jason said they were done talking about the Phantom for obvious reasons. Where did you hear why we don't have the Phanotm??

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:41 pm

aferguson wrote:i believe AT would have had the F4 out by Christmas if not for the happenings at Toy Fair in Feb. I think it would have been given a very high priority.

Still...if 21c backs away from it, as may be happening, AT is still good to go on the Phanotom.

Well....if AT suddenly produced their F-4, I'll bet my first born that 21st will suddenly come out with theirs. And at $89.99 WOOHOO!

And of course 21st will claim that they have always planned on releasing the F-4...that thing with AT...that's just a coincidence!

And the reason why they haven't released, or even talk about the F-4, B-25, MiG-21...is because they would like to concentrate on things that us collectors have been yearning for all these years.

That's right...the quad trailer.

Yep...can't live without that. Push back the Kingtiger and the 88mm....because we all know how the quad trailer will be the BIG SELLER this holiday season.

AlloySkull · Post by **AlloySkull** » Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:47 pm

Haha, dude I don't really see the point in the quad trailer, I mean, yes it's great as an accesory, but I'm sure armor or aircraft would have a much better investment...

Small Scale Military Headquarters

a Rant of sorts.

a Rant of sorts.

hobby talk

* On a Rant ! *

Re: hobby talk

well..

Re: hobby talk

Re: hobby talk

?