John Wayne the .30

macvsog · Post by **macvsog** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:19 pm

So, when I was in Vietnam all the Marines I knew that carried the M-60, carried it in what we called "John Wayne" style. Which is basically a sling that goes around the body and you walk with the M-60 while shootin' away.

And I remember seeing a film clip on the history c. a while back of the wwii pacific theater and a marines doing the same basic thing with the .30 1919 browing machine gun.

My question is: Was this common for the marines of WWII?

yes? no?

-mike-

kenhil2 · Post by **kenhil2** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:58 am

you mean belts across the chest poncho villa/rambo style?

digger · Post by **digger** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:23 am

No, I think he means the MG actually slung across the chest with a strap, not the bullets (although I'm sure they would be similarly located if the gun was to be easily fed).

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 7:50 am

I suppose you could shoot a browning mg from the hip if you had a heavy set of gloves,but the barrel gets hot real fast
during continuous fire.The M-60 as you know had some nice plastic pieces to hold onto while firing it,not to mention iterchangable barrels that could be changed by pressing one lever and sliding the new unit in.I have several friends that were in Viet Nam and they told me that the "new guy" in the unit was the soldier that got stuck carrying
the "60".It was heavy to carry just like the browning but much better as a squad
light machine gun.I have shot both of these guns at machine gun shoots and various ranches around here.The M-60
can be shot all day from the hip if you can carry enough ammo(usually hung around your neck if going into a hot LZ).The 30 cal browning usually had three guys to a team.One to carry and operate the gun,one to carry the tripod,and one to carry the ammo.
John Wayne still made this look very cool though!I hope this answered your question.

Mark

macvsog · Post by **macvsog** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:07 am

yeah, that answered my question... interesting...

thanks

-mike-

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:21 am

There are several published instances where the .30 cal was fired from the hip without a tripod.

Some soldiers in Hawaii during the Pearl Harbor attack got in an arms room and grabed .30's, wrapped towels around the barrels and blasted away at attackers. Didn't hit anything probably felt great though.

A widely seen film of Bob Hope on a Pacific island blasting away with a .30 cal holding it in his hands with a rag around the barrel. With his friends and pretty girls gigling and covering their ears from the noise.

Publicity shots but I am sure the .30 could and was rarely used in that manner.

When I was in Advanced Infantry School we were taught a technique where we advanced in a line accross and every time your left foot hit the ground you were susposed to fire a round. It didn't matter if you saw anything you were just susposed to fire. Every squad hat an M-60 gunner holding the gun at the hip, spraying the front. Felt great to advance firing. It also felt good that we were in New Jersey doing this and not Vietnam, with people wanting you not to advance.

I for one never felt the call of John Wayne/Audie Murphy. I was from the school that is someone shoots at me with a pistol, I respond with a rifle. If they use a rifle, I use a MG. If they use a MG, I call for a tank. If they use a mortor I call for a fastmover to deliver 500 lb bomb. I have found that there are still more than enough JW/AM guys around, awaiting circumstances to show their stuff, even if they currently don't realize they have the "stuff" inside them.

TTT

macvsog · Post by **macvsog** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:46 am

TTT-

I knew you would have a respone to this.

I had the same exact situation with the advancing fire line.... actually did a varriation of it in combat a few times... but really we were looking for guys in high grass - and when i say looking i mean we really didn't want to find them as much as just be damn sure they weren't coming out of the high grass.

My question was really not about guys being gung-ho in combat, but thinking of ways that guys in WWII would improvise in clutch situations. If they were in a situation where they had to move fast... like in the pacific clearing out large open areas... what they would do about the .30

-mike-

grockwood · Post by **grockwood** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:08 pm

Iseem to remember in "The road to Arnhem : a Screaming Eagle in Holland " by Burgett, Donald R, that he mentions one of the paratroopers picking up a 30 cal. and firing it as they advanced. It may have been one of his other books.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 9:02 pm

MacV:

Remember we are talking about belt fed guns. They don't fire well dragging a belt thru the dirt. Using a drum like the MG-34 was easier but until we started using the SAW with it's drum, dragging a belt of ammo along the ground for the .30 caused dirt in the feed chanbers and jams.

I would definately say using a .30 from the hip was a desperate last ditch case and was only used when all else failed.

Also a MG gunner had only a pistol with him besides the MG and if the gun jams in such a situation the guy is left with only his pistol. Not good.... with Germans or sons of Nippon charging at him.

Given the fact that when I went to VN, I was in an unusual situation and I could bring everything with me I wanted going over there. Besides my issue M-14 I brought along a scrounged up .45, a fireaxe, my personel weapons; a Walther PPK and a Russian 1898 long rifle (cost me $8 in Texas, 100 round of ammo for it cost me $10)....the big gun for trade. With my unit was my .50 cal (with a tripod, no strap to hang accross my chest....a joke) and finallt a 3.5 Bazooka and 10 rounds of ammo. I wasn't taking chances. My first purchase on the black market over there was a VC captured M-3 Grease Gun, and I traded the Russian gun for a Winchester 12 guage. No chances if something jams, I planned on dropping it and picking up something else. Driving my M-151 or a M-37 I was never without the Grease gun, the shotgun and my .45 in a shoulder holster, with the PPK in my pocket. You never know....and that was for a routine daily courier run.

TTT

macvsog · Post by **macvsog** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:21 pm

hahaha oh lord TTT you made me laugh.

You must have been a sight to see when you first got there... but you were there before i was.

i kept things much more simple than you... but hey i knew some guys who carried some very strange stuff.

i actually got hit with a big rock with a flamming rag tied around it... it was certainly a last ditch effort on the part of the VC... i actually laughed when it happened... i know it sounds unbelievable, but it's true.

oh the old days....

-mike-

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:46 am

" a rock with a flamming rag tied around it.."

My they certainly were resourceful, wern't they?

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:17 am

I can't beat a rock with a burning rag. On my second or third trip into Siagon in my M-37 somebody threw a potted plant from a second story building and it hit and exploded in the bed of the truck. Sounded like a mortor round hehind me. I had my shotgun across my legs but just floored the truck to get away from that block before I looked to see what it was. At least three or four grey hairs after that day.

MacV, I went over on a C-141 with a 20 man HQ detachment, just us and tons of equipment. When we landed and they raised the rear section it was exactly like Taylor's arrival in Platoon. Me standing there like I was standing in front of an oven. Me and my crates of "stuff". I had three weeks on my own to set up our unit the way I wanted before my battalion came over in 4 ships (1 ship for guys and three for dueces and support vehicles) and to scrounge, scrounge and more scrounge and trade. Good trades, bad trades and hinky trades. They were the best, hinky, slightly grey area trades. I was good. They were the days. Nowadays I get to worry about a leaky pipe, garbage pickups (did one of the "kids" throw a non-recycable in with the recycyables). Is my youngest "kid" ready for his FDNY officer test (studing three hours a day for two years). Is my oldest's sons baby going to come out looking like him and me (poor guy, will probably come out with a crewcut and a big Chevy V-8 tattoo around his arm, smoking a cigar).

Those were the days.

TTT