I worry about 21C.....

[tko211]

Ok I am always going to defend 21st so that comes as no shocker. But lets be fair here.

People are going to see things different based on the point of view. Ask a 32x fan if 21st should only build 1:18. I bet they would disagree with the aregument to focus only on 1:18 scale. The same is true for us 1:18 fans if the tables were turned.

The point I think that others were trying to make was that 21st isn't building new 1:18?... Again, I have to strongly disagree. Lets just recap off the top of my head the new 1:18 products by 21st in 2007.

1. Pak-40 Hanomag variant
2. Quad Gun trailer
3. Me-262
4. Me-262 nightfighter (due late 07)
5. Flak 88 (due late 07)
6. King Tiger (due late 07)
7. Platton Figures (due next month)
8. TBA 1:18 figures (due next month)

All of the above are all new items. ONLY the Me-262 shares duplication in the industry with plane developed in 06 by Admiral.

Lets count up the other players products combined in 1:18 for 2007.

1. Hellcat (BBI)
2. New para-figures (BBI)

(insert the peaceful sound sound of crickets)

I might be missing a few from the 21st camp as well as the others but I think You all get the point I am trying to make. 21st makes more products in each scale each year than anyone else and I have a hard time seeing how that is not totally true.

Also some food for thought... multiple scales are a good thing IMO. I think it's assurance that there is long term stability company and industry wide with some diversity. if one scale falls short another picks the company up. Makes a lot of sense to me. 21st has been around the longest, and they make the most product so something must be right about the formula as a whole?

[STUKA]

good post TKO - I am not worried -

[Jesse James]

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed at all in 2007... There hasn't been a LOT to buy from 21st (for me) this year other than figures. The Hano was nice if you found it... Quad trailer's are non-existant. Figures aren't abundant since S3 came out really...

And technically, you can blame 21st for some distribution problems aferg... Not everything, but you can definitely point out bad case-mixes and poor figure choices. When do tankers become 1-to-a-case while riflemen get packed 2 or 3-to-a-case? 21st does have to eat some distribution issues themselves I think, but not in the ways most people think (IE: WM doesn't distribute 21st stuff evenly, nor do they seem to care much what happens to 21st product once it's in-store. Or maybe I'm just alone seeing 21st stuff get a spot wherever they can find it sometimes).

But, I'm anxious for things like the repaint PAK-40... The KT and 88 are also high on my list. I'd like to see a jeep variant though, some other "small" vehicles too would be nice to see because they can be repainted, resold, and save money. Or little work to them can still resell the item and save 21st $$$ while making profit that can be turned into the line...

That's the key though. The Hano variants we got last year funded the KT this year... the PAK-40 repaint this year is pure profit almost for items next year. Figure repaints produce figure sculpts of the future, etc., etc. So I'm happy about a lot of that stuff.

But, I'd be lying if I wasn't a little disappointed that we got very little really this year... Tanks on WM shelves have been non-existant since 2006. I can walk in and buy an Abrams, LAV, or Humvee right now at Target though.

Did we see a plane or two? Yeah I guess, but honestly I don't care about planes (yes, we exist), and judging by the 30 or so planes I see at any given WM I visit in my area that are on pretty hefty clearances, I'd say a lot of others don't care about them either... So to me, the planes just don't count.

Really, I stick to my mantra that figures should be the line's anchor, small to mid-size vehicles should be the more heavily produced higher-ticket items ($20 - $40 pricepoints), while planes should be the "premium" item that doesn't get the heavy handed distribution/saturation. Especially since planes have a much greater repaintability to make up for limited production on any given variant, while armor seems to have the greater ability to have easily distinguishable variant sculpted onto an existing chassis (IE: Higher tooling costs, but gives a more distinguishable/unique piece... ala the hanomag variants, etc.).

Either way... I don't think I'm "worried" about 21st either way. They don't sign my check, and it's up to them to stay afloat. I'm perfectly happy to buy BBI and if FOV is jumping into 1:18, I'm there too! 21st just needs to get off the pot and compete with them then. Same as I'll buy at whoever sells me toys cheap... TRU is having a B2G1F sale? Hell yeah! Piss on you Wal-Mart, I'm headin' off to that dumb giraffe's place because HE is cheaper.

21st will have my moolah when that PAK is out, or when I see a KT...

But when I see more mustangs in a new box, maybe with different paint, well, 21st can sit down with their WM buyers and discuss WHY they've got an endcap near lawn & garden filled with them for $20 clearance, and hash that out.

[General Blasto]

Who me worry ?!? Not yet
It does seem a bit frightful that there was all these big announcements made and no product yet. But does one really know how long it takes before an arrival after an announcement ??? Let's see ... The big delay is to have the molds made, so let's assume that the molds were made because we saw a couple pre-production pictures. Ok, product is being made, let us say they want 5000 pieces for example. So there may be several weeks to a couple months just to make the product allowing time for any small problems in casting. Parts need to be painted after being made(I for one like my models pre-painted ), add maybe a month to paint all pieces. Assembly, we'll say they started assembling the models as they came down the line from mold to paint, so we'll only add a couple more weeks. Next there is QA and packaging. Add another 2-3 weeks. Now our product is ready for shipping. Usually, these are sent via container on the "slow" boat from China(literally). THis takes about 4 weeks. Lastly, there is customs. THis is a variable depending on how much is coming in the country at the time. We'll be generous and say not much and add 2 more weeks. So, add it up. I get about 4 months or so And this is the best case senerio. Now at this time of year, the country is flooded with product, so add some more time for shipping and customs.

A lot will also depend on how many molds can be run at one time too,
Many manufacturers are running product for several different companies over in China. I know this from being in the train hobby and I learned that LGB, USA trains and Aristocraft are all made at the same factory, just on different floors Waiting is nothing new for me. In the train world it's usually close to a year for a train product to go from announcement to arrival to your store - opps, I forgot to add that in the time too up above So that's how come it seems to take forever. Maybe the Pres. of 21st C will add in on this and give us a bit more insight The General

[vmf214]

Digger probably hit on it the best. It's simple mathematics, it's cheaper to do a repaint then a whole new plane, tank, whatever. The "new" items will come in time, but for now repaints are welcomed in my book. I will continue to buy ANY 1/18 item, 1/32, etc that 21st comes out with whether it's a repaint or not. I just can't bite the hand that feeds. Before 21st we had in 1/18...NOTHING!

Plus some paint schemes of just about whatever are harder to find then others as we all know and from a collector standpoint I love it, makes them worth more!!

[General Blasto]

I didn't address the issue of repaints in my post before, but will do so now
I would like to see the same figures and vehicles done with different paint, esp. the figures. Be nice if they'd change the heads out on 'em too In an Army of hundreds, I don't want any clones The General

[B24guy]

If 21st Century would just release their B-25, I would not worry for a long time.

[VMF115]

I agree, tko that was a good post. now lets get on with other topics...like when will we see the flack 88 and the KT.

[tko211]

I just posted up news on the Me-262 nightfighter in 1:18 scale. Hopefully this will give us something else to chew on for at least a couple days..

[aktiger]

An interesting note..Dragon USA has a page (http://www.dragon-models.com/catalog/fi ... y%20p4.htm) thats touts their state of the art computer designs that allow for upscaling from 1/35 to 1/6th and refers to 1/6th scale Tigers, 251s and Pz.IVs (a sign of things to come?)!
With all of 21stC's 1/32 molds, don't you think they have the capability to do the same for 1/18? Unless, of course, they don't have the same computer design .

[scbvideoboy]

Let's not miss the point, that list of 1/18 products TKO mentions is well and dandy...however if I never see it on a shelf or have no idea where it will be sold...

I don't want to base my ability to add to my collection on being LUCKY.

Last year I happened to walk in a WM, evidently they had just put the 4 pack of the half tracks and pak 40. I bought all 4. Later on I never saw all four in a single store again.

Meaning if I just had bought one at a time I would have had to drive all over the place to visit the other WM's and try to get lucky on finding the one I wanted or needed to complete the collection.

Will this happen this year with the KT and 88?

I love these things, big and detailed, etc... I hate trying to find them.

DH

[aferguson]

scaling the 1/32 molds up to 1/18 has been discussed in the past. Two problems; the first is that the molds don't have the finess of detail to be scaled up and look good...they would be the equivleant of blowing up a small picture and getting a pixelated blurry one. Maybe new technology on computers can solve this problem in the same way it can (to a degree) for pictures.

The second problem is the demand for 1/18 armour. In the past the demand has apparently been low. Now that it seems to be on the upswing, that will mute the second problem somewhat. But 1/18 models are still expensive to make and big to ship and stock. So they have to sell well and fast and at higher prices then their little 1/32 scale brothers. So 21c needs to feel sure that the subject of a 1/18 armour piece will sell very well before they'll make it.

I am hoping that they will eventually take a chance on a somewhat 'offbeat' piece of 1/18 armour (eg a T-34 or a Marder III) and when it sells like gangbusters (and we all know it will) they will be less, timid, for lack of a better word, about releasing a wider variety of 1/18 armour choices.

[Morian Miner]

The point I think that others were trying to make was that 21st isn't building new 1:18?... Again, I have to strongly disagree. Lets just recap off the top of my head the new 1:18 products by 21st in 2007.

1. Pak-40 Hanomag variant
2. Quad Gun trailer
3. Me-262
4. Me-262 nightfighter (due late 07)
5. Flak 88 (due late 07)
6. King Tiger (due late 07)
7. Platton Figures (due next month)
8. TBA 1:18 figures (due next month)

All of the above are all new items. ONLY the Me-262 shares duplication in the industry with plane developed in 06 by Admiral.

Lets count up the other players products combined in 1:18 for 2007.

1. Hellcat (BBI)
2. New para-figures (BBI)

(insert the peaceful sound sound of crickets)

TKO, keep in mind 21st had avertized the Platoon figures for a few years now, the Hanomog and ME262 were promised last year, if I remember correctly. And the others things, we don't know about yet to get excited about. From that perspective, you could add in all the BBI rereleased stuff now at Target of stuff that's hit the shelves this year.

Having said that, I don't think anything is wrong with 21C. This year has seemed very slow across the 1/18 board. If 21C needs to throw out some repaints in the stores to keep their product on the shelf and bring in some cash, more power to them. And hopefully, the delays in getting stuff out this year have to do with getting enough products together to satisfy both Walmart AND TRU for the holidays.

[bird]

As an adult hobbyist i made my choice to collect only 1:18 scale and until recently specifically WW2. So, when i first read this post I thought there was some suggestion that 21C were ditching their 1:18 line.
I panicked.

Reading on I see that 21C is committed to their 1:18 line and sure their releases might not be as fast as they are in other scales.

The 1:18 line is this boys dream come true, in my childhood I would have killed to see WW2 action figures in similar scales to the action figures of the day ie: Star Wars, GI Joe etc...

Good post TKO and the suggestion of more 1:18 troops fills me with delight.

The british are coming!!!!
and maybe it'd be supercool if we could get some Russians into the mix.
and while i'm wishing can we ask for some buildings too?

[chunks]

I no longer worry about 21c. I'll will most assuredly buy their stuff as it becomes available. As far as figures go, with FOV now in the mix, I'll be making alotta of them available to free up shelf space for vehicles as different ones become also available. The only ones I expect to hold onto are some currently very hard to find. IE VC, Taliban, etc. All this is conjectural based on what FOV, Admiral and other vehicles might become available. I'll only be keeping the figures that crew the vehicles I have. As far as folks go, 1/6 cannot be beat.

[tko211]

Yeah, there is a point of truth there in regards to some of the items I mentioned being late or in constant delay. That is totally true. But there is always slush from one year to the next and in some cases 2 years difference. It happens.

But That is no different with the other companies. and my list still stands! We where hearing rumors of a Hellcat as long ago as 2005. So slush or no slush the bottom line is 21st makes more 1:18 product all by itself than the others do. I just think credit should be where credit is due. The other companies don't seem to take as much flak on any given topic at any time... but then again that might just feel that way because of the point I just made. Meaning- the others make far fewer product in any given year = less times to be critical?

-Just a thought?

-TKO

[Threetoughtrucks]

At the risk of having TKO cross me off his Christmas list, may I humbly point out that, of the eight items TKO lists as 2007 production in 1/18, five of the eight are not out, just announced. I don't have any "to be announced" on my shelves and will wait and see how many actually hit stores, any stores, this year.

While I am on that point, none of this years production have seen ANY shelf space in any WM's in my AO. NOT ONE. Of course we don't blame 21C for that, we rightly blame WM or TRU, but all my 1/18 money has been spent on eBay to secure anything recent. That I would dearly love to see resolved, even if the new releases are to our etailers and we can buy from them.

Let's see what items are actually available by the end of this year. I won't say anything negative about 21C until that point...nothing, zippo ...to give anyone the oportunity to show me up.....please show me the error in my ways......please.

TTT

[Morian Miner]

IMO, 21C is the one who started this whole 1:18 military game. Meaning, they're the first ones (that I can recall, at least) who touted their figures and vehicles were to 1:18 scale. And because of that, I see them as being THE name associated with 1:18. Kinda like if one things of O-scale trains, they're usually referred to as Lionels, even though there are many companies are in that game. So, in a year where products have been few and far between, it doesn't surprise me that once again, the questions come up "What's up with 21C?" rather than "What's up with {Brand X}?"

I actually think that's one of the big "problems" with 21C. They seem very proud of their work, and like to show it off. Problem is, when we get these early peeks, they have a tendency of being very optimistic of when these will show up in stores. Then, there are inevitably delays, the whining starts on the boards, followed by Walmarts crappy distribution, and it seems like 21C's head is up their rears.

Besides, people, if you want to see delivery dates missed, look at the 1:1 military equipment. They make 21C look great

[tko211]

For TTT- You have to even be on my Xmas list first to then be marked off!

-I am totally kidding and just trying to make the mood a little lighter myself.

Yeah, it is a bit of a wait and see on the other 5 items... But 3 down already put's 21st ahead! -Again, just kidding there.

Seriously though... I wouldn't have laid that list down if I really didn't belive it. I wish it were up to me to make sure it happened for sure. But I remain more than just optimistic. I know for a fact actually that Platoon is done, built and shipped. It's just the TRU / WM game now. So I guess I cross my fingers there. Me-262 Nightfighter is in production in China as we speak. Typically this means about a 6-8 week delivery. So my money is on Late Nov. Early Dec. The real wild hairs here are the 88 and KT. 21st insists that these are still going to be 07 but I will be the first to admint that they could easily be Jan 08... I keep hope alive for 07 though.

As for the other bits of "to be announced stuff". Well they are figures and they are done already- I have seen them. You guys will see the first one revealed on Monday! To kick of the new figure every day campaign I am about to launch!

New stuff to talk about soon!

TKO-

TTT- I guess I can put you back on my X-mass list!

[grunt1]

TKO, hopefully this will help..

Comparing 21C to the competition is like saying I know you are thirsty, but no one else has water either..

I know you feel like you are defending them, but that's not the issue.

You're a fan and a representative of a great company!

No one is disputing what 21C has done for this scale historically or even this year.

I mean according to the database, over 100 aircraft, over 60 vehicles, 150+ action figures and then all of the playsets, artillery, etc.. They own 1:18!

We are saying we want more.. period! For 21C that's a good, if not GREAT thing. That should help pride and profits..

Their customers are asking, if not even begging, that they make additional items. How crazy is that?

Put down your shield, abandon this thread, pick up your sword and go on the offensive at 21C HQ to help make 2008 the best 1:18 year ever..

PS: For xmas I would like a T-34 with crew.

[Threetoughtrucks]

Double DITTO to what Grunt1 says....

Nothing in my rant was meant to be aimed at TKO, who as has been said, is a fan and very helpful to us in the course of his association with us and 21C.

Keep up the good work TKO.

TTT

[MG-42]

I'm sorry , but I don't agree at all to any of this , with the exception that "tko211" is doing a "good job". *

v MG

[MandaloreSC]

You guys will see the first one revealed on Monday! To kick of the new figure every day campaign I am about to launch!

I'm looking forward to see these new figures. I hope this time we will see some new sculpts for WWII. I think the quality and the sculpts of the new platoon figures are very impressive. I hope we will see new WWII figures done in this style.