GET A HOLD OF THIS $@#T...

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:01 pm

I recently sold a brand new mint flight 19 avenger to some guy in Australia and now he is claiming that it wasn't brand new and that when it arrived the rudder was loose and so was one of the figures... I swear on my Grandfather's grave, a brilliant WWII pilot I might add, that the thing was never opened and brand new... Now he wants to file a claim with paypal and leave bad feedback on my ebay... I wanted to know if any of you guys have experienced this and how to deal with it...
-MIKE-

kevrut · Post by **kevrut** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:13 pm

Sounds like some people just want to screw the system.

What does E-bay say about "your word" against "his word"? I don't have a seller's account yet. If that becomes the newest trend, I think I'll pass.

Kevin.

FieroDude · Post by **FieroDude** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:53 pm

Ostketten brought up something similar in a thread under "off topic".

I am wondering if there isn't some group of scammers out there, possibly working together, or some "how to" guide somewhere on screwing over sellers. A sudden spike in this, with essentially the same MO, is very suspicious. Especially over trivial stuff--shipping damage can occur, no matter how well something is packaged. That is what shipping insurance is for. If a buyer is absolutely intolerant of the risk of pieces coming loose or boxes getting dinged, they should only buy at their local store where they can inspect everything, and hope they don't drop it or bunp it on the way home. Or better yet, not buy at all, and just enjoy the airbrushed PR pictures.

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 5:59 pm

Yes ,.. "a disturbing trend" indeed !

That's eviLBay for ya' ! -

Mitch v MG

dfoos · Post by **dfoos** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:09 pm

Unless you're both right and you sent it new and customs tore into it during shipping. I just had that problem with something I bought that came from India. Customs not only delayed the package for several weeks, but they also ripped into it so by the time I got it, it was a mess. I don't blame the seller though, It's just the way it is now in the post 9/11 world. Maybe explain that to him so he will calm down.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 6:44 pm

Every since I have had a few packages go missing, I now ship everything INSURED.. It costs a few extra dollars, but saves a ton of heartache in the long run..

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:15 pm

Definitely a scammer... In regards to my personal experiences with the Flight 19 Avengers that had cracked canopies, damaged wings and serious paint flaws, a "loose figure" and "loose rudder" should have been the least of his problems and certainly are not worth the fuss he is creating. I hope ebay sides with you on this matter!

Also, this is one more reason why when putting up an auction you have to be extremely careful and included a very DETAILED description, not one of those little 2-sentence things. Including multiple photos of the ACTUAL product (not those company "stock" photos many auctions use) is also a good idea - or at least I think it would be. That way, in case some outlandish claim comes out, you'll possibly have more of an edge in claiming your side of the story.

Good luck nonetheless!

Spudkopf · Post by **Spudkopf** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:29 pm

In my opinion this is a very un-Australia act, but unfortunately there are A-holes everywhere even down here.

I hope this has not made you put us the rest of us in the same basket.

Post by **aferguson** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 7:31 pm

Well, if he hasn't filed a claim with Paypal but plans to, he may be in for a nasty surprise. Unless he is going to state in the claim that he never received the item (which he clearly did) he will not be reimbursed by Paypal for it being 'used', 'damaged' or anything else.

All Paypal cares about is if an item arrived or not. Unless things have changed recently. I went through an experience like this last year. I bought a small item off ebay, and when it arrived the item i got was not what i bought. I emailed the seller and never got a response so i filed a paypal claim to get my money back. I indicated in the claim that the item that arrived was not what i purchased and when i clicked 'continue' was informed that Paypal does not reimburse buyer's money for items which did not meet expectations. So, if you're Australian buyer files the claim honestly, then he shouldn't get a dime (by the way what this means is you could mail someone an empty box and if they state in the claim they received a box but nothing was inside, they would not get their money back.......clearly Paypal has to tidy their policies up a bit).

I think this sharp rise in buying scams may be a combination of coincidence and the fact that a lot of buyers are catching on to all the loopholes provided by both Paypal and credit card companies.

I would stand my ground if i were you.

KAMIKAZE · Post by **KAMIKAZE** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 9:05 pm

Stop using Paypal for transactions oversees and you will be much better off. If Paypal creates an oppertunity for someone to cheat the system, then eliminate that possibility.

Mark

immeww2 · Post by **immeww2** » Fri Sep 21, 2007 10:05 pm

It is kinda strange how these problems arise. I've sold XD items on EBAY and many of them went to international addresses and they all used PayPal for payments (since I stated that in my auctions). So far, I haven't had any bad deals yet, but with all this bad news coming out, I may have to change my policies regarding sales overseas. Hope everything works out for you Mccarthy.

King O' Fools · Post by **King O' Fools** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:13 am

immeww2 wrote:It is kinda strange how these problems arise. I've sold XD items on EBAY and many of them went to international addresses and they all used PayPal for payments (since I stated that in my auctions). So far, I haven't had any bad deals yet, but with all this bad news coming out, I may have to change my policies regarding sales overseas. Hope everything works out for you Mccarthy.

Hmm, I don’t think this issue has anything to do with the fact that this was an international transaction. Seems to me a lot of people who are conducting business on e-bay are scared shitless of shipping overseas, when they could be as easily scammed by someone from the US.

PS: Why would anyone complain about damaged packaging as long as the model fits the description, unless they’re actually planning to re-sell the model?

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:14 am

I appreciate all the help guys... He recently replied to my email, basically calling me a liar and that the plane i sent him is not the plane pictured on ebay... I asked him to take pictures of the damage and he sent 2 photos, first one showing the rudder and pilot loose and the other showing the transparent frame pushed in... Then he said that I tried re-taping the transparent frame in the corner and that the rubber band holding the pilot was missing... I went back to my photos and zoomed in to notice that the tape and rubber band were intact... Also the photo he sent had the alien figure missing, which in this case I sent the plane alien figure included and pictured... Here is the link to the plane I sent and sold...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... :IT&ih=013

I cant believe this guy...

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 1:24 am

Here are the photos he sent me of the damage... And he says there is no way this happened after shipping, that it had to have happened before I shipped it...

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q154 ... wnload.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>[/img]

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q154 ... load-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket"></a>

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 4:43 am

Dude, he’s completely trying to jack you!!! It’s obvious to me just by looking at the positioning of the other two figures in the box that this is the same plane in the eBay auction. The right two figures are both leaning back and look to be in the exact same position as your photograph. He obviously opened the box, broke off the rudder and removed the alien figure all on his own!!! Still, looks like an easy fix and not a good enough reason to be upset. I wouldn’t give him a dime and if he blasts you then give him the same consideration in return!!! Maybe that will shut him up.

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:57 am

the buyer has a bit of a past history of complaining about items being damaged/not mint. Whether he's a liar or just not being realistic (i mean this is a big box being transported 10,000 miles by various postal services...and postal services are not noted for being 100% risk free where damage is concerned), i don't know.

The alien figure is strange....if it was truly there when you shipped it then either someone in the post office or customs removed it (both unlikely but possible) or the buyer removed it to exagerate his claim. Either way, it's not your fault nor responsibility. It's also possible he hasn't opened the box and the alien figure came loose and got stuck somewhere where it's out of sight.

Normally i would say don't be too worried about a negative feedback, they really don't hurt as much as you think, as long as the overall rating is solid. I never let the threat of negative feedback effect my decision in cases like this. However, in your case, your feedback is already a bit shakey (yes i know it's from buying incidents but most people don't look at that, they just look at the overall rating). So, it may be in your long term interests as a seller to avoid getting a negative and coming to some kind of terms with this buyer, galling though it may be.

The selling price was only $43, so there's not much money involved. The shipping cost is not being disputed, so there's no refund required for that. The box damage is more the responsibility of the carrier that delivered the package and is not your responsibility....if the buyer expects boxes to arrive mint then he's going to have to pay a lot more for the shipping, so the item can be more securily packaged and sent by faster means, so less chance of damage.

So, the only real issue is the missing alien figure and the loose parts. The loose parts also could have happened in transit and can be fixed/repaired. I'd offer him $10 and say take it or leave it. He won't get a dime out of Paypal and leaving negative feedback to you won't fix the damage or make him money either. Explain that the refund is conditional on you also leaving neutral feedback, stating that the buyer disputed the condition the item arrived in and was given a partial refund.

You need to do this because some buyer's have a scam going where they dispute the condition of every item they buy, getting a partial refund each time. Because no feedback is left, other sellers are unaware that this buyer has been repeatedly coersing refunds out of sellers. A neutral comment will be read by other sellers, and they will realize the guy is a scammer (if he is) and he will be stopped dead in his tracks. I always advise people, when giving a partial refund, that i will also be leaving the neutral comment and that is one of the conditions of granting the refund. Most people don't care, if they are being honest, because they know the comment won't hurt them. Scammers freak out because they know their scamming days are over...

digger · Post by **digger** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:25 am

Damage could have surely happened in shipping, but what I will bet on is that someone (maybe even him), maybe the guys at customs, PO, freight, etc..plucked out the alien when they saw him. To do that you would likely knock over the left pilot.

I hate to say this but shipping large items outside NA is just not worth it for the average ebay seller. You wait on line at the PO for the customs, the package is handled by at least 5 different groups of people (2 carriers, 2 customs, possible freight 3rd party..) and the chance of the item arriving at all is about 50%, never mind damaged. To ship back is a fortune but worse is that I have shipped planes to Europe more than once that just never arrived...not saying this to upset our members overseas but it is true. Oh, and try getting any money from an insurance claim.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 7:50 am

You left him positive feedback already?

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:34 am

toyktdlgh wrote:You left him positive feedback already?

I do this also.. I don't think it is right t wait until the buyer receives the item and leaves his feedback for me to leave mine.. If the buyer upholds his part of the deal, then he deserves positive feedback and gets it accordingly.. If, for some reason he is unhappy and leaves negative feedback, then there are comeback lines to defend what happened..

And, I agree with what Aferg says... Don't be too concerned with 1 negative because most people realize things happen in-transit that is out of the sellers control.. One negative wouldn't keep me from buying from a person if he has a solid reputation..

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:54 am

I never leave feedback until the buyer leaves his saying he has received his merchandise and is happy with it. As far as I am concerned the transaction is not finished until he has received his item. I do not use it as a bargaining chip to get positive feedback. I guess there are two points of view on this topic.

I also do this to help remind the buyer to leave feedback. There have been many times I have never received feedback after I gave it, even on this very board. Good luck with this problem. I must say after reading afergusons post I agree with him on how you should handle it from here.

Threetoughtrucks · Post by **Threetoughtrucks** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 8:59 am

Aferg & guys:

PayPal will consider other issues besides "not received" in deceiding on whether they issue a refund.

Case in point is my complaint, late last year on PayPal, against a seller who sold me kit with parts missing. I even contacted the maker of the kit and they offered to replace the missing parts for a lousy $15 and the seller refused to let me have a $15 refund so I made a complaint and PayPal issued me a full refund plus shipping. I was glad to pay return postage just to get rid of this nutjob who even blamed this board for his problems (we were all "out to get him").

Haven't heard from him lately so maybe the "eBay enforcement squad" paid him a visit, kicked in his door and he may be in Gitmo now.....

TTT

Post by **aferguson** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:22 am

i agree toyktdlgh......in fact i never leave feedback until a person asks me to, and then only after they've left their feedback for me. Too many times i had people use feedback as a weapon against me. By holding off on leaving mine, until they've left theirs, it becomes a sort of mutually assured destruction situation.

I've also had people leave positive and then reverse their paypal payment.....pure scam. By not leaving feedback i had the chance to warn other sellers.

WGP Klaus · Post by **WGP Klaus** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 11:05 am

As Aferg mentioned, Paypal wont do anything as long as the buyer aknowledged receiving the item. Just out of curiousity, did the buyer ask for insurance on the item? or did you provide it in addition to whatever the shipping was? If so, theres his recourse right there if he's seriously miffed. As mentioned also, tell him that it was shipped in good condition and its literally out of your hands at that point, thats what insurance is for, as well all know the various parcel delivery services dont treat the packages with the care they should.

mccarthy1028 · Post by **mccarthy1028** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 5:35 pm

im done with this guy... he has attacked me personally and has driven me insane... I pretty much told him to go ^(*& himself and to go ahead with his frivilous claim... He said that the alien was removed by himself when he opened the box... Sounds fishy but im done, at this point i dont care what he does... He is a worthless nobody and one day he will have to answer to a superior man upstairs for all the lies and scams he pulls... Im not concerned I did everything right and people that have traded or bought from me in the past know that im an honest person... A WARNING TO EVERYONE HERE, STAY AWAY FROM Dominic Conolly FROM SYDNEY AUSTRALIA, EBAY NAME:sutekh_osirin... HE IS A SCAMMER... A big THANKS to everyone here for helping me out...
-MIKE-

Rowsdower · Post by **Rowsdower** » Sat Sep 22, 2007 6:44 pm

aferguson wrote:i agree toyktdlgh......in fact i never leave feedback until a person asks me to, and then only after they've left their feedback for me. Too many times i had people use feedback as a weapon against me. By holding off on leaving mine, until they've left theirs, it becomes a sort of mutually assured destruction situation.

I've also had people leave positive and then reverse their paypal payment.....pure scam. By not leaving feedback i had the chance to warn other sellers.

I agree 110% That's exactly the way I handle feedback. Sound advice for all sellers.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

GET A HOLD OF THIS $@#T...

GET A HOLD OF THIS $@#T...

xd

A disturbing trend ( ? )

well