Dragon Armor

[ltcbj]

I am looking at DA's Spring '05 catalogue. First and second forties, and there aren't any Shermans, but there are Stug IIIs. A 75mm G and the Stuh 42 that looks more like a "D" or "E". So where are my Stug IIIs ?? I mean pictures and everything, as if they existed. Very very annoying. (60089 & 60090)

[lightning2000]

Hi Itcbj,
There are a host of vehicles that have never materialized or have been delayed ad infinitum. For instance, the two Jagdpanthers with zimmerit were announced back in January 2005 -- its now September 2006, and I still dont see them coming in anytime soon.

Likewise, the Brummbars were supposed to come out (I think they were listed on the back of the catalogue) awhile back, along with a few others.

I think that Dragon has to make a decision real soon as to how they're going to approach the 1:72 scale market from here on out. In the past, they pretty much owned the sector. Now, with companies like FOV, IXO, Admiral and Hobby Master entering the fray, they have to decide if they're a serious player or not. There's only so many Tiger Is, Elefants and T-34s you can put out before moving on to other vehicle types. Heck, with the Jagdpanzer IV chassis developed last year for the Huber tank destroyer, I could've sworn we'd be doing the back stroke in Pz IVs by now.

IXO's first vehicles will begin to appear in time for the holidays and Hobby Master is not too far behind. Everyone seems to love the latest batch of FOV's Micro Military line and we've only heard good things in regards to Admiral's efforts.

It kind of reminds me when Solido/Verem had the military market all to themselves -- six years later, and they're now out of the military business.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

[ltcbj]

Yo, Lightning: The old Solidos with their metal tracks and general shape of the vehicle involved. That was thirty years ago. Maybe 1/48 scale +/-. The changes and improvements are staggering.
I'm a bit surprised that so few are challenging ROCO in the HO scale. I mean they are still using the same molds for the Tiger, Panther, PzIV and Pz III that they used 40+ years ago. And getting away with it. AirFix (et al) had/have so many soldier sets and there is a huge HO scale market. Had Dragon done these in 1/87 instead of 1/72 they could have charged the same, had more raw material, and a mature as well as new market. Certainly ROCO's newer models pack a lot of detail (as much as Dragon does) on the smaller model. Imagine HO scale tanks, with the 1/72 detail and paint jobs....
What think you?

[lightning2000]

Hi,
Well, we started carrying Solido around 6 years ago, when Corgi was just entering the market and a couple of after market cottage industry shops offered alternatives based on the Solido chassis.

I dont doubt there's a huge market in 1:87; its just not my cup of tea, and thus far it doesnt look like Dragon is interested in it either. We carried the Schuco 1:87 scale vehicles for a short period, which did well but looked more toylike than collectibles.

Getting back to Dragon, it just seems strange that for such an innovative company, it takes them so long to get stuff out. Sort of reminds me of Microsoft; they're the dominant player, until others start to step up to the plate. Look how long its taking them to get out Vista, which was codenamed "Longhorn" years ago.

Going forward, I think the lion's share of the business is going to go to the manufacturer that is the most nimble. Companies need to shorten the time it takes to identify a market niche and subsequently bring product to market. You cant follow a script any longer and expect others to sit on their laurels waiting for the product come out. Asking customers to wait years for things may have worked in the past, but I think that strategy is going to fall by the wayside fast as more choices become available to the collector, whatever the scale. Becoming the fourth player to get a Merkava out, for example, just aint going to cut it any longer, unless the product is better, cheaper and has more bells and whistles than the competition.

It'll be interesting to see the type of quality Hobby Master can offer and the price point for each vehicle...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

[ltcbj]

I wasn't suggesting you carry 1/87 and I don't know of more than two who produce reputable 1/87- ROCO and somebody else who slips my mind. I'm just musing, actually. I used to collect ROCO and had several hundred tanks, etc. and just loved them mini-tanks. Had many an armored battle across my entire apartment. But their fragility, poor packaging (many would come with parts pre-broken or pre-lost) and general need for after market care, painting and such, really put them into the model class. Pre-painted tanks in 1/87 might have kept me in the scale. As it was I switched over to micro-armor thirty-five years ago and only in the past few years began on the 1/32/72/144 scales. Of my ROCO collection I have only held onto two dozen or so M-551s and a couple of mis-matched other pieces.
Some of CORGI's offerings appear about 1/87 but as someone noted: Their scale (apart from those beautiful 1/50 tanks) is effectively box size.

[Juneau@1]

We are starting to see more from Dragon as far as variations go. We now have their Shermans, 251's, and the T-34/85 just this month. As far as the Jagdpanzers go, since the Huber, they have released 5 with the sixth due very shortly.
Eric

[lightning2000]

Hi,
Yeah, I collected some Roco stuff years ago when I was a kid. I think they came blister packed and remember getting them from a place called Toy City here in Queens, NYC. I remember painting up a Panther platoon in a winter camo then stood back in awe. The British Conquerors and Chieftains I left in their original green matte finish. Cannon fodder as far as I was concerned...

I remember boxing up everything when I first got married; I'm sure they ended up on the garbage heap a year or so later after my wife asked what I planned to do with them. It was bad enough I was still playing Avalon Hill games into the wee hours of the morning with umpteen play by mail opponents. That too fizzled after my first daughter came along...

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

[Tshintl]

I think Dragon will remain in the front for 1:72 diecast tanks despite having such a repetitive schedule (though their market share will probably fall some). Dragon has something most of these other companies don't, a matching 1:72 plastic kit line that does extremely well. Dragon Armor may have some diecast (or lack of, LOL) in their tanks, but most of a Dragon Armor tank is the same that comes with the plastic kit version. I have a Dragon Models German 251/1 C halftrack that I built and I have a Dragon Armor German 251/1 C halftrack and they're virtually identical.

When Dragon designs a 1:72 tank, they can make it as a plastic kit or a prebuilt/prepainted tank and have twice the market to sell it in. Take a company like Forces of Valor and they have to design a 1:72 tank as well, but only have the one market to sell it in. Dragon gets more for their money, which could be argued gives them an advantage.

I agree that since there's more players competing in the same market, Dragon will have to make a good plan on what they release and when they release it. This is all good news for the collector as there's more to choose from.

[ltcbj]

Yes, they came in what was a very early blister pack, thin, clear plastic with a staple holding it to a very light duty cardboard. Still use the same packaging with a tweak here or there. The tank was pretty much free floating and subject to breakage/loss of parts. A fair percentage would come missing hatches or machine guns. Many of their models were prototypes the leopard (#172?), AMX-30 and Chieftain models certainly were. I remember picking up a bunch of the panthers at a five and dime in New York for 25c each. I found my first ones, PzIV-F1s at a Firestone Tire store. They were great in their day but, again, they never changed their old, original molds and are still using them today, along with some beautifully done more recent offerings as well. The newer models are really pretty extraordinary. That is why I think that companies such as Dragon have permanently missed a boat (well, a scale boat) that will now never sail....