POST AVENGER FINDS AND DISCUSSION HERE!

sarge · Post by **sarge** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 4:47 am

STARMAN 352ND wrote:
sarge wrote: Did they tell you what all the flaws were besides the plugs ?

JP

the other flaws were missing/mismatched parts and the paint jobs. After reading alot of these threads they seem to be right on.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:14 am

This is why I keep delaying spending money on these Avengers and getting one. They were rushed and as a result the quality has suffered. I will wait until Bad Cat hopefully gets the Bunker Hill Avenger and then all the QC issues should be corrected and I think 21st will correct them. Imagin how nice a Bunker Hill Avenger would look sitting next to the Bunker Hill F4U? Pretty nice I say.

digger · Post by **digger** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:43 am

It's funny to hear people say this plane was "rushed" - does anyone remember the 3 years we waited for it?

I think it was time to ___ or get off the pot with the Avenger, any more delays would have been killer. Think about all the birds we get in this scale - they often have little flaws and mistakes, especially out the gate. The S1 P-47 canopy, the S1 21C Corsair 'fingerprint weathering,' the S6 bbi P-51 with "Old Crow" on only one side!
Yea, there are imperfections but I'd love to see if MilitaryToyShop and BCA get perfect batches...b/c of course they will gladly take your returns if your paint job is a bit off...

sarge · Post by **sarge** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:26 am

digger wrote:It's funny to hear people say this plane was "rushed" - does anyone remember the 3 years we waited for it? I think it was time to ___ or get off the pot with the Avenger, any more delays would have been killer. Think about all the birds we get in this scale - they often have little flaws and mistakes, especially out the gate. The S1 P-47 canopy, the S1 21C Corsair 'fingerprint weathering,' the S6 bbi P-51 with "Old Crow" on only one side!
Yea, there are imperfections but I'd love to see if MilitaryToyShop and BCA get perfect batches...b/c of course they will gladly take your returns if your paint job is a bit off...

I agree with you but what's the deal with the Avenger? Like you say 3 years, now how much longer???

I don't think it's so much of working out the bugs, but in the production of it

As for BCA and MTS They both occasionally get a bad one but will gladley replace it. As for 21C there's not that many web distributers for them and no retail stores other than WM when a few years ago you could find them all over like TR'US, KB toys, ect. Ever wonder why? I think they're lack of customer concern had alot to do with it and they havn't changed it. Try to get an answer from them, better yet try to call them

Have a good one. Sarge

digger · Post by **digger** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:45 am

We'll see about that return policy from the Etailers you mention when the time comes...

I disagree on the availability of this stuff though. In the last few years it seems there are more web stores carrying this stuff than ever. I think there are 5 members of this board who have opened web stores in the last few years with the main focus being XD. It is even at Target online. KB now has 1:32 and 1:144...We know what led to them leaving TRU and I have to say there are many more WMs than TRUS.... Safe to say the stuff is in many more places than it ever was. I don't know if you remember the TRU days but it was possibly more frustrating than WM in terms of distribution. Winter Stuka anyone?

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:56 am

digger wrote:Winter Stuka anyone?

I found several Winter Stukas at TRU back when they were first there, along with the Snake version and most everything else

However, I nonetheless agree with you digger in that the distribution of XD products has greatly improved and that they are more readily avaliable than at any other time. In the TRU days, only TRU and amazon.com (and ebay) had XD products and now every Wal Mart has at least some XD. While the distribution between Wal Marts greatly varies (for example, a local Wal Mart only now got a single Avenger), the stuff is out there and most will eventually reach the small retailers as well

sarge · Post by **sarge** » Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:12 am

digger wrote:We'll see about that return policy from the Etailers you mention when the time comes...

I disagree on the availability of this stuff though. In the last few years it seems there are more web stores carrying this stuff than ever. I think there are 5 members of this board who have opened web stores in the last few years with the main focus being XD. It is even at Target online. KB now has 1:32 and 1:144...We know what led to them leaving TRU and I have to say there are many more WMs than TRUS.... Safe to say the stuff is in many more places than it ever was. I don't know if you remember the TRU days but it was possibly more frustrating than WM in terms of distribution. Winter Stuka anyone?

Never had any problem with them on returns which was very few. I was talking about retail availability. I do remember the TRU days when 21C was plentifull.

That's where I bought the majority of my 1/6 figures and 1/18 tanks and planes. They were the only ones (in my area of SC.) other than the web sites that had a fairly wide selection. The only time you see selections like that in WM nowadays is around Christmas time

.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:06 pm

The only difference with any of the Avengers that were built, are built or that will be built is the screw hole plugs. There is no other quality control issues, paint problems or anything else that should keep someone about from buying one of these other than the screw holes.

I know that there has been a lot of debate, and anticipation in regards to the Big Torpedo plane. The press from on line retailers was written in such a way as to stir the pot and based on some of the recent posts it clearly reached it's desired effect to raise concern or question quality overall.

Here are the facts!

1. Avenger production was difficult due to many features that were decided to be 100% needed to produce a high quality plane for the required price point. The delays allowed for the following features that we enjoy today.

A. A better locking wing hinge enabling the wings to keep a slight dihedral in a fixed position and a sturdy locked and folded position.

B. Improved and reinforeced landing gear to support the weight and mass of this big bird.

C. the ability to open the rear gun turret to allow for action figure placement and removal.

D. the inclusion of the 3rd crew member.

all of these items were 100% needed to insure the success of this model. I say 21st did a great job!

2. Nothing about the production of the Atlantic Avenger was rushed. (remember we waited 3 years!) Not even the missing screw holes were a result of a rush job. The screw covers were part of a seperate mold. that mold was not properly accounted for when 21st moved to a new factory. The missing screw covers were noticed about 1 week after delivery. the new factory in China didn't know they were supposed to even have any because many other toys in the market such as starwars toys have exposed access screws. all future produced Avengers will have screw covers. Meanwhile 21st is finding a way to provide these to perfect your WM Atlantic Avenger which will make your WM bird every bit as good as anywhere else.

3. WM is not carring a "bad or defective" batch of anything. The only reason why a vendor will have the opportunity to have an imporved version is only a matter of the screw covers and that is only because newer planes have the included covers as it was designed and intended. Everything else is the same, over time as covers are made available you can have a WM bird perfected.

I hope this helps everyone. I love the Avenger and I gotta say that it is hands down the coolest 1:18 plane for the buck. It is packed with features!

billgiff · Post by **billgiff** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:26 pm

I think that everybody who has the Atlantic Avenger will be much happier when they get the screw covers. When I get my two sets, I'll display my birds with pride. Until then, they will stay boxed. My 2 cents worth.

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:39 pm

good explanation TKO....nice to have the riddle solved at last. I have an Avenger on the way and will open it as soon as it gets here. I will be hoping to get a set of those screw hole covers though and plug em in when i do.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:48 pm

To be completely honest with you, I'm not concerned with the screw holes whatsoever. The whole idea of having an Avenger in the collection overrides all minor detail issues. When I look over at it, I don't see them! Well done 21st, screw holes and all.

You know, all 18 of the Avengers I saw in my AOR are done gone! So, somebody likes them, hehehe....

-Ski

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:50 pm

Eagerly awaiting the screw covers, and it sounds like we will get them eventually! The if 21c can get them made and distributed to those who want them, then the Avenger will truly be one of the most perfect 1:18 planes yet

I totally agree with TKO that this bird is amazing when one considers all the detail and work that went into it. As far as complexity and detail goes, there is simply no comparing the 21c Avenger to the other "large" aircraft offered by the competition. It exceeds them!

kevrut · Post by **kevrut** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:20 pm

My Avenger is hanging so you can only see the left side.
It's no big deal to me.

Sgt. Fury · Post by **Sgt. Fury** » Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:47 pm

I agree with the above. "screw holes and all". Luv it!

Still swooning over my TBF Avenger.

flayrah · Post by **flayrah** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:22 am

Still haven't seen any Avengers on the shelves....

vulgarvulture · Post by **vulgarvulture** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:33 am

Thought it was interesting the Historic Aviation is selling Avengers for W-M prices -- $69.

I never saw an Avenger at W-M in my AO in Northern Ca. Not one.

tko211 · Post by **tko211** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:27 am

Personally I am hoping that the success of the Avenger will open new doors to larger more detailed and more expensive models! The newer box that contains the Avenger is large enough to fit other oversized birds. The price point is enough to perhaps look at other subjetcs. If the sales at the stores hold true and 21st & WM can see that there is support from fans at a 69.00 price point I think we will see more things that we have always wished for. I am excited about the present but I am dying to know the future!

-tko

Quixote511 · Post by **Quixote511** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:52 am

TKo, that is such a tease.

krieglok · Post by **krieglok** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:21 pm

There are still plenty of Avengers here in Northern NJ. The stock at the Newton WM is actually starting to get a bit of shelf wear from being moved around from one shelf to the other. I was in there today and counted eight of them.

As far as the screw hole issue is concerned, I have mellowed a bit over their presence. When I first opened up the box, I was a bit shocked. But honestly, the plane grows on you. If they make the plugs available and I can get them, I will install them. Otherwise, the holes really dont stick out too much. I have seen some of the other forum member`s handy work with pencil erasers and such and I have to admit that I will try it if the plugs dont come out. The model doesnt look bad with them, but it will look much better without the holes.

My only complaint about the Avenger is actually a concern expressed by my seven year old son. He has his own Avenger and the various operating features made him fall in love with it. His only complaint is that "it is too big to play with". It is an awful lot of airplane even for an adult to handle. That is why we need one in 32x too....

TJ

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:45 pm

tko211 wrote:Personally I am hoping that the success of the Avenger will open new doors to larger more detailed and more expensive models! The newer box that contains the Avenger is large enough to fit other oversized birds. The price point is enough to perhaps look at other subjetcs. If the sales at the stores hold true and 21st & WM can see that there is support from fans at a 69.00 price point I think we will see more things that we have always wished for. I am excited about the present but I am dying to know the future!

-tko

Could you imagine a Mossie??? Makes me quiver just thinking about it, hehehe.....

-Ski

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:04 pm

I am actually surprised that of the 8 different Wal-Marts in the OKC area that received a case of the Avengers, there are hardly any left. Less than two handfuls left. I am surprised because of the fact that they are more expensive. I hope that the sales keep on coming. Way to go 21st.!

Post by **aferguson** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:22 pm

That is very positive. We may yet see a 1/18 B-52.

hworth18 · Post by **hworth18** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:26 pm

tkjaer21 wrote:I am actually surprised that of the 8 different Wal-Marts in the OKC area that received a case of the Avengers, there are hardly any left. Less than two handfuls left. I am surprised because of the fact that they are more expensive. I hope that the sales keep on coming. Way to go 21st.!

In OKC huh???? As in Oklahoma City????
I will be in Midwest City Saturday for a Seminar and will hit as many Walmarts as I can find in that area and in OKC.. Any tips on where to find the new 32X?????

nathanita · Post by **nathanita** » Thu Sep 14, 2006 12:41 pm

tko211 wrote: The newer box that contains the Avenger is large enough to fit other oversized birds. The price point is enough to perhaps look at other subjetcs. If the sales at the stores hold true and 21st & WM can see that there is support from fans at a 69.00 price point I think we will see more things that we have always wished for. -tko

I think that with all of the work 21st Century put into that wing mechanism, a Hellcat wouldn't be an unlikely follow up. Also, as WM is probably surprised by the popularity of a plane at almost twice the price, I wonder if we have seen the end of $40 airplanes...

Tinman · Post by **Tinman** » Fri Sep 15, 2006 8:20 pm

I was amazed to see two Avengers on the shelves in the Auburn NY store today. I spent quite a while examining them, but - at the risk of being excommunicated from this forum - I must confess that I did not buy one!

Tough decision, but I only plan to get one Avenger, and I'm determined to hold out for a Pacific Theater version.

The good news is, if the jones to have one NOW gets the best of me then I can expect to start seeing the current release at other stores here soon.

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