POST BBI CORSAIR FINDS AND DISCUSSION HERE

digger · Post by **digger** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:57 am

MM, my 21st Corsair has screws in the main wheels - is there a screw hole on the bbi version for the wheels to screw into? Thanks!

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:25 am

those who do not have digital cameras are people too..

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:37 am

For Digger: Yes the bbi Corsair has screw holes as well to fit screws into.

As for Teamski's comments about me stepping up and being a man because I dont have a digital camera. Well sorry I dont have the funds to afford one just yet but I will in time. I guess for the guys who dont have digital cameras, I guess we arent men but little boys and until we all get digital cameras thats how it will be.

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:54 am

The base colors on this plane represent the standard tri-tone paint scheme applied to the vast majority of F4U-1A and FG-1A Corsair types during World War II. Contrarily, the "Marine's Dream" nose art was originally worn by an earlier F4U-1 "birdcage" Corsair, and was unique to a particular plane flown by a pilot from VMF-222 the "Flying Deuces" squadron. That particular F4U-1 operated off of Bougainville Island during 1943 - in the early days of the Corsair's deployment in the South Pacific. The "Marine's Dream" nose art has no connection with Ken Walsh at all. Ray Dieckman selected it because of his personal connection with the Corps.
The only connection this paint scheme has with Marine Corps ace Lt. Col. Kenneth Walsh is his name which was applied just beneath the canopy on the left side of the fuselage. This was done out of tribute to Walsh, and has no real bearing on any other aspect of the paint scheme.
I don't presume to know why Mr. Dieckman selected #19 for the aircraft. It bears no historical relevance to Kenneth Walsh as far as I know. It's more than likely a number that holds personal meaning for Mr. Dieckman.
Still one of the most attractive Corsairs on the circuit though in my opinion, regardless of the paint scheme's various provenances

Rob Mears
'Surviving Corsairs' Historian
SkyChrgr1@aol.com

Hey guys I just got this email from Rob Mears and it pretty much lays to rest the fact that "Marines Dream" was NOT a Corsair that was flown by Maj Walsh in WW 2 which is why none of us can find any photos of it with Maj Walsh flying it. It was a tribute plain and simple with no connection to Walsh what so ever. That being said though its still a great paint scheme and a beautiful Corsair in person or in 1/18th scale form. I just dont know why the "Marines Dream" website would claim that it represents the fighter flown by Maj Walsh when in fact it wasnt. But either way it still looks great.

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:51 am

not all of us with digital cameras fell that way

Post by **p51** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:43 pm

I ended up picking up the BBi Corsair today. I had a TRU gift card, otherwise I probably would have skipped it. The second I picked it up I thought about how much it looks like the 21st one. The ONLY reason I slightly wanted it was because I've been around the plane that carried the paint scheme for several months a few years ago when it was stationed at the Planes of Fame Museum... and I've seen it fly many times. When I get home from Disneyland tonight I'm going to compare it with 21st's corsairs.

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:00 pm

Mike wrote:

"for p51 on the BBI Corsair Discussion thread.

I chuckled when I read your comments on how much the bbi Corsair looked like the 21C one...I would have thought that it should be "how much they both looked like the Chance Vought and Goodyear ones!"
Both of us replicated their original design."

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:05 pm

All p51 has to do is take a close look between the two to notice the difference between them. First one: take a look at the detail p51. 21st loses hands down no matter what you say or your just to "pro 21st" not to notice it or care. Compare all you want but bbi kicks A%% when it comes to the Corsair. The only fault I found was the main tires and the tail wheel which I corrected, other then that as I said before bbi's Corsair is the best 1/18th scale plane on the market today in my humble opinion. And until 21st releases the Avenger my mind wont change unless something mind blowing comes out from bbi or 21st.

Website · Post by **Teamski** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:01 am

MightyMustang wrote: SkyChrgr1@aol.com

Hey guys I just got this email from Rob Mears and it pretty much lays to rest the fact that "Marines Dream" was NOT a Corsair that was flown by Maj Walsh in WW 2 which is why none of us can find any photos of it with Maj Walsh flying it. It was a tribute plain and simple with no connection to Walsh what so ever. That being said though its still a great paint scheme and a beautiful Corsair in person or in 1/18th scale form. I just dont know why the "Marines Dream" website would claim that it represents the fighter flown by Maj Walsh when in fact it wasnt. But either way it still looks great.

Sweet, thanks for the information Mighty. At least now we know for certain. I just wish that the scheme wasn't wasted in such a fashion. Tommy Blackburn would of been the ideal choice. With the Zero coming out in an authentic coat of paint, this hopefully will be just a one off.....

I hope you didn't take the digital camera statement seriously. I was just razzing you. I don't own a cell phone, so I am not much of a man myself, hehehehehe.....

-Ski

Post by **p51** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:25 am

I have a lot of bad to say about this friggen corsair... quite a lot. Anyone who says this wing system is better is full of it IMO. I put a 7 inch long gash in my left arm (almost needed stitches) because of how badly (at least the one I have) they fit into place. After trying to get the wing into the unfolded position, the entire bottom section snapped off the Corsair and dug right on in. And I thought the two gashes my cat gave me yesterday were bad.

Okay... the gear is really bad. Collapses VERY easily. And the tail hook looks horrible when the tail wheel is down. it just sits there and wobbles unlike 21st's which still locks into the groove.

And before I continue...

All p51 has to do is take a close look between the two to notice the difference between them. First one: take a look at the detail p51. 21st loses hands down no matter what you say or your just to "pro 21st" not to notice it or care.

Don't test me MightMustang. If you haven't seen the F-104 in person... then you can just STOP making those claims... seeing as you've been very pro BBI lately let me tell you about the F-104... Why not take a close look at all the 1:18 scale aircraft you can before you go and start promoting them? I can find a LOT of people on here who'd agree about how amazing the F-104 is. I believe that is the winner so far... and that also comes from one of the world's most famous museums (which might I add ripped apart the Mustang and Corsair when I showed it to them). Perhaps you should research a bit before you make claims like that and point the finger yelling 'oh, you're just too pro 21st to notice or care'... otherwise you may want to keep things to yourself. Pictures do no do the F-104 justice. As soon as I get a BBi F-16... I'll have one of every single BBi and 21st plane type out there. And so far the F-104 wins that field for best of the best.
I DO see the extra details in the Corsair... but I could take my Pappy Boyington Corsair and do some custom work and give it a lot of details as well... but it's still the same plane when it comes down to it.

Anyway... back to the Corsair. The wings really made me upset... not to mention in pain. While I like how they fold upwards when pulled out (no screw loosening), there's no change from the 21st version in how hard it is to get the wings out and in of the main wing root.
Another big annoyance but an easy fix... the main gear door covers with the number kept falling off. The way it snaps in doesn't hold it all that well. A bit of superglue seemed to make them stay, we'll see.
Tail wheel does not turn like 21st's one, and it's not easy to spin.
The propellar, no matter how I tweak it, seems to just be made with enough gap in it to make the propellar hobble when it's spun making it stop kinda fast.
Pilot sits a little high in the cockpit, and it's really hard to get him to hold the stick... but I like how the stick was done and the cockpit does look really great.
I put the rockets on, and they really annoyed me (not to mention since that scheme is Roy's... Roy never put rockets on the Corsair. He had the drop tanks, but never rockets... so I kept them off. But this is just a personal thing).
I like the wind fold/fuselage attachment rod... except the instructions are not very clear on which sides of the Rod go where.
Pitiot tube not attached was a nice touch, 21st did that with the F-104's nose pitiot tube and it helps ensure they don't break in transit.
I was surprised to see the propellar detail so blah... I like the 21st prop much better. Very sharp and finer details.
Engine detail is definitely an improvement.
For being one of the main cool features of the new Corsair... the elevators and rudder don't move ALL that much. I thought at least the Rudder would move more.
I was expecting a bit more rivit detail... compared to the BBi Mustang. I was surprised to see 21st had most of the rivits in their mustangs as it were. While the Corsair doesn't have as many rivits on it as the P-51 Mustang, there's a few obvious spots I would have thought they would have added detail.
And MightyMustang... at this point you may think I'm taking this way too far... but if thise is such the 'BEST' 1:18 aircraft out there... I'm expecting to see something a LOT closer than this. I won't even go into how many things are wrong if they were trying to get it close to Ray Diekman's plane... I got to see her and study her for some time. I have a LOT of reference photos of her, so I did some comparing. I know Ray spent a lot of time researching the scheme, and even though he did put Ken Walsh on it, it's still got a paint scheme that (from your info even) we know exists.
<a href="http://www.warbird-photos.com/pof8-21-0 ... ct7231.jpg" target="_blank"><img border="0" src="http://www.warbird-photos.com/pof8-21-0 ... ct7231.jpg" width="500"></a>

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:40 am

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 7:41 am

FAR OUT!

MightyMustang · Post by **MightyMustang** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:08 am

p51 wrote:I have a lot of bad to say about this friggen corsair... quite a lot. Anyone who says this wing system is better is full of it IMO. I put a 7 inch long gash in my left arm (almost needed stitches) because of how badly (at least the one I have) they fit into place. After trying to get the wing into the unfolded position, the entire bottom section snapped off the Corsair and dug right on in. And I thought the two gashes my cat gave me yesterday were bad.

Okay... the gear is really bad. Collapses VERY easily. And the tail hook looks horrible when the tail wheel is down. it just sits there and wobbles unlike 21st's which still locks into the groove.

And before I continue...

All p51 has to do is take a close look between the two to notice the difference between them. First one: take a look at the detail p51. 21st loses hands down no matter what you say or your just to "pro 21st" not to notice it or care.
Don't test me MightMustang. If you haven't seen the F-104 in person... then you can just STOP making those claims... seeing as you've been very pro BBI lately let me tell you about the F-104... Why not take a close look at all the 1:18 scale aircraft you can before you go and start promoting them? I can find a LOT of people on here who'd agree about how amazing the F-104 is. I believe that is the winner so far... and that also comes from one of the world's most famous museums (which might I add ripped apart the Mustang and Corsair when I showed it to them). Perhaps you should research a bit before you make claims like that and point the finger yelling 'oh, you're just too pro 21st to notice or care'... otherwise you may want to keep things to yourself. Pictures do no do the F-104 justice. As soon as I get a BBi F-16... I'll have one of every single BBi and 21st plane type out there. And so far the F-104 wins that field for best of the best.
I DO see the extra details in the Corsair... but I could take my Pappy Boyington Corsair and do some custom work and give it a lot of details as well... but it's still the same plane when it comes down to it.

Anyway... back to the Corsair. The wings really made me upset... not to mention in pain. While I like how they fold upwards when pulled out (no screw loosening), there's no change from the 21st version in how hard it is to get the wings out and in of the main wing root.
Another big annoyance but an easy fix... the main gear door covers with the number kept falling off. The way it snaps in doesn't hold it all that well. A bit of superglue seemed to make them stay, we'll see.
Tail wheel does not turn like 21st's one, and it's not easy to spin.
The propellar, no matter how I tweak it, seems to just be made with enough gap in it to make the propellar hobble when it's spun making it stop kinda fast.
Pilot sits a little high in the cockpit, and it's really hard to get him to hold the stick... but I like how the stick was done and the cockpit does look really great.
I put the rockets on, and they really annoyed me (not to mention since that scheme is Roy's... Roy never put rockets on the Corsair. He had the drop tanks, but never rockets... so I kept them off. But this is just a personal thing).
I like the wind fold/fuselage attachment rod... except the instructions are not very clear on which sides of the Rod go where.
Pitiot tube not attached was a nice touch, 21st did that with the F-104's nose pitiot tube and it helps ensure they don't break in transit.
I was surprised to see the propellar detail so blah... I like the 21st prop much better. Very sharp and finer details.
Engine detail is definitely an improvement.
For being one of the main cool features of the new Corsair... the elevators and rudder don't move ALL that much. I thought at least the Rudder would move more.
I was expecting a bit more rivit detail... compared to the BBi Mustang. I was surprised to see 21st had most of the rivits in their mustangs as it were. While the Corsair doesn't have as many rivits on it as the P-51 Mustang, there's a few obvious spots I would have thought they would have added detail.
And MightyMustang... at this point you may think I'm taking this way too far... but if thise is such the 'BEST' 1:18 aircraft out there... I'm expecting to see something a LOT closer than this. I won't even go into how many things are wrong if they were trying to get it close to Ray Diekman's plane... I got to see her and study her for some time. I have a LOT of reference photos of her, so I did some comparing. I know Ray spent a lot of time researching the scheme, and even though he did put Ken Walsh on it, it's still got a paint scheme that (from your info even) we know exists.
<a href="http://www.warbird-photos.com/pof8-21-0 ... ct7231.jpg" target="_blank"><img border="0" src="http://www.warbird-photos.com/pof8-21-0 ... ct7231.jpg" width="500"></a>

First off p51 I said the the bbi Corsair was the best 1/18th scale plane out there "IN MY PERSONAL OPINION" so lets just clear that up ok? I'm SO very SORRY you have had so many problems with your Corsair I really am. If its so bad maybe then you should just take it back. DONT PUSH YOU? I'm sorry if you felt that I pushed you p51 and if you felt that way I do apologize because you took it wrong but whatever.

JOC · Post by **JOC** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:53 am

This will probably get my kicked off this board, but the above two posts were uncalled for, IMHO. First I am sorry that you gashed yourself on the wing, I had to actually put a towel over mine to keep from cutting myself, hell I even cut myself on those "easy openning cans of dog food." I do not know either one of you personally, I do respect both of your comments, but hell Guys, these are only TOYS, aren't they, or I thought they were?
Hell you too, chill out, this was and is a FUN board, lets try to keep it that way. I also collect model "O" guage trains, and you should hear some of the "this is better than that comments" concerning Lionel vs. MTH, etc. I am in no way an expert on airplanes and their authenticity, but with more moving parts than others, I still at 64-years-of-age, get excited (until I break it).

So if I am still allowed to stay here, lets "just have fun", no WARS allowed, G-D knows we have enough on our collective plates as it is.

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:53 am

I have to agree way too personal there. Each company has it's good and bad points and beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Jerico "Cant we all just get along?" Eagle

JOC · Post by **JOC** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:29 pm

Just an added note to my previous post. I don't think Mighty was out of line in pushing BBI over 21st. Hell, if I had the wherewithall, I would complain to High Heaven about 21st's sloppy dealings with WalMart on their distribution. What good would that do? Nothing, Nada, Zilch. Hell, I called 21st on many occasions about not being able to buy their products other than eBay and on-line retailers, while reading on this board about stuff all over hell and creation. Their response, well I can't say it here, would not be politicaly correct..... Hell guys, if someone feels strongly about one manufacture over another, who cares! It's his opinion, his right, his personal feelings.
Here goes!
P-51 - You were wrong
Mighty Mustang - You were wrong
Now lets stop this NOW!
IMHO some toys are better than others.
But in the end, Toys are still Toys.
Again, not being an expert on model airplanes, I do know if one wants total accuracy, Your going to have to pay the price, not what 21st nor BBI are going to charge. You get what you pay for, that's all. I remember back when someone posted a model of a Corsair made by a dentist in Hawaii. Now that beat the Hell out of anything either 21st nor BBI can and will probably ever produce. I for one would just love to have that model, but my bank account now and in the future could not afford it.
Enuff said, I for one am going to put this to rest, and just enjoy the hobby, all the new stuff coming out, and of utmost importance, enjoy the company of all on this board.
JOC

KAGNEW · Post by **KAGNEW** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:09 pm

AMEN BROTHER!

digger · Post by **digger** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:22 pm

Hate to drag out a dirty thread but let's be fair here....P-51 has been with us a long time....MM on the other hand showed up when the bbi Mustang was released and declared it the greatest thing ever (maybe true).
Then, when the bbi Corsair comes out, that's now the greatest plane ever. Now, let's keep in mind this is the same guy who DOES NOT OWN A 21st plane! Not a Spit, a Stuka, a 109, a P-38 - NONE.
Then he alludes to "easy" mods that he can't show us and accompany shady instructions. He has also been known to quote BCT only to have Mat come on the board to say nobody at BCT said anything like that.....It's clear to me that MM's MO is BS....anyone who thinks otherwise just look back on his old posts and then tell me this was an objective fan or collector. Please.

Sorry, I agree the tit for tat and back and forth is useless and not what this board has ever been about - but it's safe to say MM was full of sh%t almost every time he posted.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 3:55 pm

Wow! I agree, lets end this now. The BBI planes and 21c planes have their good and bad points, but its not worth sheding this much angst over them! On the flip side, we must all be careful what we say and back up any claims we make with evidence.

Sorry about your arm, P-51 - I have a nice little scar on my right ankle from where my 21c Hummer struck me after falling 5 feet from a shelf and I once cut my finger trying to retract a stiff tail wheel on my 21c P-47

Guess there's a reason why there's the age limit on these toys...

BTW - the 21c F-104 is one of the best 1:18 aircraft to date, IMHO, but may soon be relegated to 2nd place by the Avenger. (I can say that as I own an example of nearly every 1:18 aircraft save the 21c P-47 bubbletop, and BBI F-18, Blackhawk & Apache

)

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:17 pm

Mighty Mustang, there’s no need for you to quit posting here. We all have different opinions on things and sometimes we forget where we are and what were doing here. Things can get heated but in all we understand that not everyone loves armor, not everyone wants new planes and not everyone is happy with the product produced by certain competing companies. Its alright to disagree, we just need to try to keep it as civilized as possible. I think you two guys just got off on the wrong foot here. I hope you will reconsider and we can all go back to playing with our toys.

Courage is fear holding on a minute longer.
George S. Patton

kevrut · Post by **kevrut** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:59 pm

I think BBI and 21C both make wonderful dust collectors.

Post by **p51** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 5:59 pm

Hey guys,
Apologies for this being really public... if anything MM and I should have taken this to PM before we even posted here. Since then MM and I have PMed eachother, and weither he stays or not is totally up to him.
I've always thought of these boards as fair game between all companies... 21st , BBI, FOV, Corgi, etc. While the original GPXD boards started with 21st Century Toys being the main focus (at that point BBi was just 1/6 as I recall), BBI has become a big active member in the 1/18 scale market. Heck, I own 3x F-18 Golden Dragons, A F-18 Blue Angel, Apache, SeaHawk, Kiowa, P-51 Mustang, and now Corsair by BBi and soon I hope to get a F-16 to complete the BBi Aircraft line. So it's not like I'm anti BBi in any respect... I honestly love the F-18 Hornet and consider that one of my prized aircraft in my collection.
There are some other factors with MightyMustang that were also a part of why things got a bit flared there. Some would agree this was coming for some time... but we should have taken this to PMs.

And finally, apologies to you all for things flaring! It shouldn't have gotten to that point.

holensock · Post by **holensock** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 6:00 pm

kevrut wrote:I think BBI and 21C both make wonderful dust collectors.

I agree! And I hope BOTH companies continue to put out many more dust collectors!! Love 'em or hate 'em, better to find 'em than not at all!

fredricchio · Post by **fredricchio** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 8:36 pm

Corsair is up on amazon, in case anyone hasn't found it yet. And they still have that P-40 listing

HardenSteel · Post by **HardenSteel** » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:34 pm

I used to have to monitor list servs & all kinds of similar stuff.
My advice was - when feeling heated about something - write it out.
Then put it away for 24 hours and reexamine it when your head is a
little cooler. Usually, you will realize that your original thoughts require
some attention.

I hope I did not start this track by my observations. My interest is accuracy and detail.
However, I also like personalization of the subject matter. Unless you trying to do a
particular person's vehicle where you are beholden to that reality... and all the critique
that comes from missing a rivet (rivet counters!) - I just as soon be close to real, yet do
a bit of (or a lot ) customization to fulfill whatever fantasy or idea I would like to see/create.
Isn't that the point?

The trouble with wing insertion actually goes beyond both corsairs - I appreciate how difficult
it was to insert them. For example I can hardly see how I will ever get the stuka apart....

But, this brings up a serious liability or design flaw issue that both BBI & 21st need to recognize
in these - so called toys. If P51 can give himself a 7" gash - (ouch! that must of hurt like &*#%)
then, what will a child do? More importantly, that leaves the seller/manufacturer open to litigation.
I would actually prefer to see a steel pin fitted trough the hinge joining the 2 wings, or something
similar, rather than some of the interference fits that both BBI & 21st have done. Design is very
complicate, but safety is just as important. Clearly there is assembly problems that need to be
addressed. Following the original design often leads to important clues on how and why to do it.

Also, when is the last time you saw a child play with something the size of the F16, F18 or the F104?
My grandson cannot even lift the F18. The age recommendation should probably be raised on the heavier stuff.

I had a heck of a time fitting my wings on the corsair and nearly did slice myself. I actually wondered
how I was going to fit it with out some serious mods there for a while. By the same token I'm no fan
of the way 21st fits either, quite difficult. This is a learning process for all, I think.

As I said before, when you have healthy competition - quality tends to improve rapidly, and this has
been dramatic for both companies.

I still say the Spitfire is one of the most accurate, but we should all be able to voice opinions without flame.

I'm not even an aircraft nut and I have almost all of everything in 1/18 scale. I mean I'm a serious armour guy,
but can't seem to resist the 1/18th aircraft. I have almost no aircraft in anyother scale.
Armour? you don't want to know how much I have ...

Anyway, I hope some of my thoughts may be useful.

HD

Small Scale Military Headquarters

POST BBI CORSAIR FINDS AND DISCUSSION HERE

Conversion?

C'mon....MM is a pro bullshit artist...

XD

Re: XD