HELP! Creating Water for an XD diorama?

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:41 am

Hi,
Looking for help on creating water for a D-Day diorama I am working on.
I saw at my local Hobby Lobby that they had a plastic bag filled with clear beads that you heat and pour out to create the water on train sets.
Has anyone used this kind of thing before?
If not, what have you used and where did you get it?
Any pics for examples and the method you used would be helpful.

(I know I have seen boardmembers create some fantastic dioramas with water as one element to their design.)

Thanks,

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:59 am

I'm no fan of the hot/heated plastic. It’s very hard to get it right near the edge. The only way to get it good is to heat the edge with a torch and then you risk burning the house down. I recommend Acrylic gloss medium. You can put it on in layers and add color and texture as you go. Only draw back is you can’t tell what it will really look like till it dries.

Folkwulfe · Post by **Folkwulfe** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 8:25 am

The problem I've run into with hot liquid plastics is one of shrinkage, As the hot plastic cures (and cools) it shrinks away from the edges of whatever is holding it. Trying to make shorelines is a real pain. I use Future Floor Wax poured in layers. Now this takes awhile (days to be done right) but the end results are fantastic. Future is liquid acrylic plastic, dries clear, and is water soluable for easy cleanup. Because if dries slowly, you can create 3D effects easily. By adding dyes or water dolors to a layer, you can tint that layer....or just sprinkle sand into it as it dries for a 3D bottom effect. And since it's cold during the cure process, it does not affect (or distort by melting) plastic item embedded in it. It's cheap, easy, but takes time to pour thin layers to make thick depths.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:12 am

WOW!

I am getting my education today!
Thanks, Toyktdlgh.
I have been looking at the world of Acrylic gloss medium and the like on the web. Very cool.

Thanks, Folkwulfe.
Cheap and simple are good rules of thumb. I would never of thought about using floor wax for this. Cool!

Let me tell you what I have to work with:
I have a shelf attached to the wall. The shelf has a lip running around the entire shelf.
So, I have some foamcore board cut and fitted into space the lip has created even with the top of the lip of the shelf.

What about the sand beach for this d-day dio?
What materials work best for it?
Actual sand from the sandbox? or is there a better way to layer and build it up?
(At one end of the dio I want the shoreline and build up to the German defenses on the other end of the dio - the view will be looking at this with cross-cut/side view)

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:31 am

You know Mark if it’s a small dio you could always use some kind of spray foam for contouring the beach and shoreline. I like to use plaster but it does get heavy. I use it for my “n” scale buildings and such. Spray foam can be contoured as well and sands/sculpts after it sets. You could use real sand if you want to go over top. I would just buy some sand/dirt from Johnny’s and use some spray on turf glue. That way it stays where you put it forever.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 10:01 am

Toyktdlgh,
"some kind of spray foam"
What brand or type do you use?

"some spray on turf glue"
Again, what brand or type do you use?

(Sorry, really brand new at the, creating scenery, thing.

)

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:22 am

Mark, the last diorama/RR I worked on I used hard foam board to build up the mountain. I just laid it down in layers building up as I went. To finish the surface off and fill in the stairs steps of foam board I just sprayed it with some general purpose insulating foam. The kind from Lowes/Home Depot. I then took a large hack saw blade and my Stanley screen rasp and carved it down to the rough shape I wanted. I finished the outside with a plaster skin (for the rock look) but that was just me. I have also seen people use spray foam and just leave it as is for rocks and mountains. It can leave a bubbly look but that can be fixed in the places where it is really bad. I have built things out of blue foam before and that works quite nice as well. Blue foam allows you to sand it much smoother and patch areas with spackle. Might work well for the beach head.

As for the spray on glue I can’t remember the brand right now. I know I got it at hobby lobby and it’s not in a spray bottle. It looks like a big jug of white glue. You can thin it out and put it in an airbrush. You can put it down first or spray over it to seal. I do both.

Keep hitting the model RR sites. There are so many different ways to do stuff like this. Just stay away from real water and dirt.

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 11:35 am

toyktdlgh wrote: Just stay away from real water and dirt.

You so funny...

(tell that to my son!

)

Thanks, Kevin for all the good tips.
I want this to look really good, but I want to do it myself! (with any kind of side help I can get...)

V2 MAN · Post by **V2 MAN** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 4:46 pm

Hey mark i have two ponds you can use and some bottle rockets as artillery shelling the higginns boats

toyktdlgh is it bad to actually use real water or sand for a inside d-day diorama? Also were can i buy the supplies any online website? Oh mark if you are going to use real dirt i suggest putting up some plexi glass just tall enough for it.

Morian Miner · Post by **Morian Miner** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:41 pm

I'm curious about the layering of the Future floor wax. How durable is it? Does it last (meaning, in a year or two does it need to be trashed)?

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:35 pm

Who was the boardmember that did the dio for the 21c USMC figure photo contest that had the simulated water? Their dio (pictured below) was one of the honorable-mention entries in the contest, and had some excellent work done in creating the realistic diorama base

I want to say it was boardmember BoomboomJr, but I could be wrong. It may be worth contacting him!

V2 MAN · Post by **V2 MAN** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:19 pm

That is too cool

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 9:45 pm

Tman,
That was an awesome job he did on the water and sand for that diorama.
It is so realistic looking.

I don't see him much on the board anymore.
I may try sending him a PM on the water subject.

Thanks!

warhawker · Post by **warhawker** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 7:46 am

Was this Reds work? It was a great job!

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 8:44 am

Warhawker,
I checked Red's posts and Red never posted these pics on the board.
Tman found it on 21st Century's site.
So, I am pretty sure that these are not Red's pics.

(Red, if I am wrong, please correct me.

)

pyroguyboomboomjr · Post by **pyroguyboomboomjr** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:28 pm

the board member that suggested gloss medium is a great idea. but you cant tell what you got until its done. its good to mix with paint and create waves or froth of a sinking ship of plane. acrylic resin is the best to use. you should practice first before you ruin you model. you can make drips and running water by pouring the resin over saran wrap to make a water fall because it will disappear when its hard . you can dye it with paint or with the special resin dies. Its great for water dioramas. you can vibrate the base while it sets up for ripples or use a hair dryer to blow waves. you can pour it in layers from dark to lite and embed objects under the water etc. use monofiliment and pour resin and let hang and make bursting wounds and stuff. i used to do
all that stuff when i built monsters models years ago for a hobby magazine i wrote for. contact me and ill email you some examples dave ps you can get all this at an art store but it will be cheaper in bulk at home depot or tru value

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 9:39 pm

Thanks, pyroguyboomboomjr
I sent you an email.

Thanks to everyone that has thrown their 2 cents into this thread!

pyroguyboomboomjr · Post by **pyroguyboomboomjr** » Fri Jul 13, 2007 10:18 pm

go here and look at this photo

www.gremlins.com/kitbuilders/daves_world.html

a good shot of a water gag using both resin and gel medium or gloss medium

catman · Post by **catman** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 12:53 am

I know i remember seeing a diorama with some sort of plaster like substance that is pored in and then hardened and it looked pretty good. Im not sure who did it though

warhawker · Post by **warhawker** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:33 am

Try these links for water:
http://fr.armorama.com/modules.php?op=m ... =42&page=1
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op= ... 173&page=1
http://www.armorama.com/modules.php?op= ... =6&g_id=89

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:17 am

Links look really good.
I will check them out in more detail tonight.

Thanks!

kevrut · Post by **kevrut** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 8:41 am

Either Michael's or Hobby Lobby have a roll of blue plastic that looks like water. It's only about 4 or 6 square feet though. I guess it depends on how big of a dio you're doing.

Kevin.

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 3:50 am

I got this off another site:

Easy Water
There is a product that is used for making water for model train dioramas called Easy Water. It comes iin pellet form and can be melted on a stove and poured into casts. I believe it can also be pigmented. Easy Water can be found at most hobby stores that sell model train supplies. No information is available on the durability of this product now. castin'craft

Most craft stores, like Michaels, sell castin'craft polyester resin. It can also be pigmented. The product is fairly inexpensive and readily available, but the surface doesn't cure very well, it smells really bad, it is very thick, the mix ratios aren't exact, and it is very brittle. This is a good product for beginners to experiment with.

Micro-Mark 80347
Micro-Mark sells a 2 part clear liquid resin that can be pigmented. It is used for making water or other colored transparent parts.MM part # 80347, 8oz., $9.95; 80349, 16oz., $16.95; 80349, 32oz., $29.95. The die set comes with 1/4 oz. bottles of red, green, yellow, blue, amber and pearl. The dye set is #80351, $10.95.

Smooth-On Crystal Clear 202 and Clear Flex 50
Smooth-On makes many varieties of clear resins. CRYSTAL CLEAR 202 is a clear urethane that sets in 9 minutes and cures in 90 minutes.

warhawker · Post by **warhawker** » Thu Jul 19, 2007 7:53 am

I found this link as well:
http://www.woodlandscenics.com/index.htm
They even have video on how to create water effects if you search their web site.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

HELP! Creating Water for an XD diorama?

HELP! Creating Water for an XD diorama?

Hot vs Cold

water effects anything wet, spurting blood etc.

xd