Custom Tiger Waffen-SS Division Totenkopf KURSK 1943

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:32 pm

This is really cool.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1-18-1-16-Ultimate- ... dZViewItem

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:11 pm

interesting.....a little expensive for a Tiger covered in bristles from a brush but interesting. He should have at least painted out the tell tale tank number on the barrel....dead give away for a Leningrad tiger.

I may have to try that with my grey tiger.

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:55 pm

[+] > Maybe somebody should complain how offensive it looks.

Mitch v MG

pickelhaube · Post by **pickelhaube** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:23 pm

He made a broom !!! That is all. Detail ,were are the grill covers? All his figs have late war smocks. Shouldn't the paint be yellow not grey? Yes once again he proves that he is an expert. But this will sell for about $350 or higher. If you add the real price it should be about $50 for the tank and $5 for a broom. So that should be worth $55.

olifant · Post by **olifant** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:52 pm

pickelhaube wrote:He made a broom !!! That is all. Detail ,were are the grill covers? All his figs have late war smocks. Shouldn't the paint be yellow not grey? Yes once again he proves that he is an expert. But this will sell for about $350 or higher. If you add the real price it should be about $50 for the tank and $5 for a broom. So that should be worth $55.

C'mon PH, this is not a broom. It is Barbie hair.

I like how he chose the Totenkolf(

) Division for this. I am pretty sure TK never had an organic Schwerecompanie...and they rarely applied the totenkopf division ID on their tanks...and at Kursk all SS armored tactical insignia was changed for security. IIRC the Totenkopf Kursk insignia looked like this:

_l_l_

Quite the expert

kduck · Post by **kduck** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:18 pm

pickelhaube wrote:He made a broom !!! That is all. Detail ,were are the grill covers? All his figs have late war smocks. Shouldn't the paint be yellow not grey? Yes once again he proves that he is an expert...

The collar tab insignia on the figures is wrong too. The SS runes are facing backwards (clearly visible on the figure to the right in his first picture). If they're Totenkopf they should be wearing the Totenkopf (deaths head) tab on the right side of the collar rather than the SS runes anyway. Also cuff title were rarely worn on smocks. If he's an expert on WWII you would think that he'd know these things...

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:43 pm

MG-42 wrote:[+] > Maybe somebody should complain how offensive it looks.

Mitch v MG

Yeah

I don't care for it, not much skill there to be so braggy imo. And like the others have said, the detail definitely isn't there for such a "pro"...

smittyrob64 · Post by **smittyrob64** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 12:13 am

kduck wrote: Also cuff title were rarely worn on smocks.

I don't think they ever wore cufftitles on smocks, only rarely on the camoflage uniforms. So... that makes it even worse. All in all a bad attempt, I hope no one buys it.

ostketten · Post by **ostketten** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:48 am

pickelhaube wrote:He made a broom !!! That is all. Detail ,were are the grill covers? All his figs have late war smocks. Shouldn't the paint be yellow not grey? Yes once again he proves that he is an expert. But this will sell for about $350 or higher. If you add the real price it should be about $50 for the tank and $5 for a broom. So that should be worth $55.

I agree. I'm sorry but I just don't find this appealing at all...to me it looks like a wooly mammoth with some prehistoric hunters perched on it's back.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 5:50 am

ostketten wrote:
pickelhaube wrote:He made a broom !!! That is all. Detail ,were are the grill covers? All his figs have late war smocks. Shouldn't the paint be yellow not grey? Yes once again he proves that he is an expert. But this will sell for about $350 or higher. If you add the real price it should be about $50 for the tank and $5 for a broom. So that should be worth $55.
I agree. I'm sorry but I just don't find this appealing at all...to me it looks like a wooly mammoth with some prehistoric hunters perched on it's back.

Yoxford · Post by **Yoxford** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 7:16 am

If you don’t have something positive to say, don’t say anything…sooooo

…insert “chirping cricket sound” here….

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:27 am

i think it's a novel idea; i've seen pictures of tigers with straw applied in this way....it's just that that's about all he did. Didn't repaint, didn't even change much in the way of markings. And i'm pretty sure by Kursk all tanks had been repainted in dark yellow. There was a long lull before the battle so there was plenty of time to convert to the new 3 colour scheme, at least in part, especially for the elite Tiger units.

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:04 am

He said ( I have built models for 20+ years and have had work published in Fine Scale Model Magazine. I am an expert on the Luftwaffe and WW2.)
ppl will say anything to sell stuff on evilbay.

at $300 thats way to much.

Panzer_M · Post by **Panzer_M** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 3:53 pm

should have been a Pz IV

and the 3rd SS didn't use SS runes, but the deathhead in place as it's personal were taken from concentration(sp) camp personal..

also finally seeing the "Full Interior" of the Tiger...we are not impressed.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 10:24 pm

Panzer_M wrote:should have been a Pz IV

and the 3rd SS didn't use SS runes, but the deathhead in place as it's personal were taken from concentration(sp) camp personal..

also finally seeing the "Full Interior" of the Tiger...we are not impressed.

Actually, the Totenkopf did have Tigers. And the Totenkopf had the SS runes on their collar tabs. It's the Heer Panzer crews who has the Death's Head symbol, because that's been always the symbol of the Panzerwaffe.

It's kinda hilarious to read the "history lesson" on that auction.

Snipers would often take refuge behind the armor of a tiger and were able to act as a second set of eyes to alert the crew or support infantry of mine fields, tanks and traps.

No sane person would want to hide behind or near a Tiger. Because Tigers attracts the most fire, and shrapnel and deflecting bullets isn't really a good thing for the human body.

I emailed the seller and told him that adding the death's head rune markings all over the tank doesn't make it a Totenkopf Tiger. I even offered to show him real pics of Totenkopf Tigers during and after Kursk.

smittyrob64 · Post by **smittyrob64** » Mon Jun 23, 2008 11:36 pm

Heer panzer crews wore 2 metal totenkopf on each lapel.
Totenkopf did not have ss runes on the right collar tab but a single machine embroidered or bevo totenkopf of ss design differing from the army version.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:15 am

smittyrob64 wrote:Heer panzer crews wore 2 metal totenkopf on each lapel.
Totenkopf did not have ss runes on the right collar tab but a single machine embroidered or bevo totenkopf of ss design differing from the army version.

I guess it works both ways, because these crews from the S.SS.Pz.Abt. 503 clearly has the SS runes on the right collar tabs.

smittyrob64 · Post by **smittyrob64** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:42 am

Thats right. Made up of personnel from SS-Pz.Rgt. 11 and other ss divisions
Only the 3rd SS totenkopf would have worn the deathshead patch in place of the standard ss runes.

Sorry this was all I could find on the internet, I have no way to post pics.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... n%26sa%3DN

kduck · Post by **kduck** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:52 am

GooglyDoogly wrote:I guess it works both ways, because these crews from the S.SS.Pz.Abt. 503 clearly has the SS runes on the right collar tabs.

This can get a bit confusing. I'm no expert on German uniforms but here's how I understand it.

SS tank crews (except for Totenkopf) used the SS runes on the right collar and rank insignia on the left. Totenkopf tank crews used the Totenkopf deaths head on the right collar and rank insignia on the left. Heer tank crews used the deaths head on both collar tabs. The Heer deaths head insignia was different from the ones used by Totenkopf but they looked similar. This sometimes lead to captured Heer tank crewmen being mistaken for SS soldiers. This could lead to rough treatment and sometimes they were even shot outright.

SS and Totenkopf infantry collar tab insignia differed in that Totenkopf infantry wore the deaths head tab on the right side of the collar instead of runes. Both wore rank insignia on the left collar. To make matters even more confusing there were different variations of the standard runes (and even different right side collar tabs in the case of foreign volunteer units) and sometimes Totenkopf enlisted soldiers wore mirrored images of the Totenkopf tab on both sides of the collar.

I told you it could get confusing...

You can find pictures of German collar insignia on these pages:
http://www.atthefront.com/g_insig_heercollar.htm
http://www.atthefront.com/g_insig_SScollar.htm

smittyrob64 · Post by **smittyrob64** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 8:32 am

The Heer totenkopf lacked the bottom jaw, similar to the first pattern ss version worn on peaked caps.

Foreign volunteers, especially those considered to be non aryan were deemed unfit to wear ss runes on collar patches or use the prefix "ss" before their division names. Some photos show them wearing them anyway.

As a further wrench into the works, personnel were constantly being transferred to and from various divisions and those personnel would keep their former units insignia, especially nearing the end of the war.

GooglyDoogly · Post by **GooglyDoogly** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:35 am

Yep it can get verrrry confusing.

But it's kinda fun though.

kduck · Post by **kduck** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:10 am

GooglyDoogly wrote:Yep it can get verrrry confusing.

But it's kinda fun though.

Yep, confusing it can be. That's probably why there have been dozens of books written on the subject of German WWII uniforms. Collectors and WWII experts still argue about the subject. Check some history forums or 1/6 action figure forums and there always seems to be a debate about what is correct and what isn't. Insignia and SS camouflage uniforms are a hot topic in many of these debates.

And like smittyrob64 said, soldiers were constantly being transferred into different divisions. SS units took lots of casualties and were constantly being reinforced, reorganized or dissolved. These personnel would be sent to other units and sometimes they wore their old insignia. Add in the fact that individual soldiers would sometimes wear their uniforms in an unauthorized manner. If one guy wore something unauthorized and a photograph was taken it could be used as historical "evidence" to support an arguement that it was common.

jrs. · Post by **jrs.** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 6:01 pm

Ah come on... hes going to get $350 or better for that story!

While anyone can argue the details... I give hime credit for enjoying the same stuff we do. Not so sure about calling yourself expert? But I guess money makes ya do odd things?

Stug45 · Post by **Stug45** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 3:52 pm

Someone bid on it.

Yoxford · Post by **Yoxford** » Wed Jun 25, 2008 5:04 pm

Phineas Taylor Barnum was right, "there's a sucker born every minute."

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Custom Tiger Waffen-SS Division Totenkopf KURSK 1943

Custom Tiger Waffen-SS Division Totenkopf KURSK 1943

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