Has this forum lost its way? YOU BE THE JUDGE!

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:10 pm

Listening to, and thinking about the debate that has raged over the past month I've begun to wonder if the manufacturers, retailers and the general powers to be take this board seriously anymore. I think we need to look at ourselves as members and ask how are we presenting ourselves? Do we want to be perceived as argumentative children or as serious consumers with good knowledge of the products at hand.

I feel right now an opportunity is being wasted. This board should be a sounding area for what is wrong and right with a product. Seriously, look at your posts. Do you offer constructive criticism or do you just complain with no point at all in your writings? Do you make comments about what is right about a product or just harp on and on about the negative. Do you come to share the hobby or just cut down those who disagree with you? Emotions should never guide a discussion, it just doesn't work. Arguments for and against should be made in a logical concise manner. I'm not trying to suggest anyone's views are invalid in any way but I feel that due to the way things are sometimes presented here, this forum is not taken as seriously as it could or should be.

Case in point of course the F-14, the manufacturer really messed up with the paint issue but it seems to me that way less is made about what they got right. What I'd like to see, are reviews, constructive reviews, placed down here. Don't just say something sucks, say why it sucks and what can be done to correct it. It's always easier to take bad news when a little sugar is mixed in with it.

The F-14's weathering was done all wrong and in a manner that distracted from the desirability of the aircraft. So what did they get right. The plane itself is pretty awesome and innovative, there are features on it that haven't been included in other aircraft such as the radar and pretty much the overall markings and painting is correct.

There were a great many good suggestions that were brought up here but shoved aside to the emotions of the issue. For example, don't weather at all, this is a great simple idea that would have saved JSI time and money. How about a make your own F-14, leave it blank for those of us who like to customize and offer separate decal packs. A blank F-14 would cost less for those who can't afford them at their present price-point and in the future you can buy the markings you want. I liked this option when I bought my F-16 from BadCat years ago.

Perhaps we should have a technical section here on the forum where those of with modeling skills can show tips and techniques to those with out them so that they can improve their collections.

Overall I just feel the board has gotten off track and is considered insignificant or a joke instead of the source it once was or could be for all things XD , do you agree?

Shin Densetsu · Post by **Shin Densetsu** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:15 pm

I think everything is still the same for the most part, it's just that members are more vocal because we actually have something new released, and the item in question(F-14) wasn't expected especially in light of the recession and a year where we didn't see much new 1/18 stuff.

So it's a mix of excitement and disappointment(spots and other criticisms), but other than that I think all of us are happy that we got something new this year.

ram04 · Post by **ram04** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:24 pm

I won't vote whether the board has lost its way, but as far as the F-14 goes I would be glad if this was a model I wanted, spots or no spots.

At least it was released and can always be repainted, I would like to see some of the older models be re-released and would gladly put up with a few minor imperfections.

toyktdlgh · Post by **toyktdlgh** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:23 pm

I don’t think the board has lost its way. I see the same things I’ve always seen here going on so there has been no significant change from my perspective. I will say that the topic of the F-14 is a loaded one. A lot of people have very strong opinions on this topic and we have seen this through the many different posts on the subject. Most people politely say their piece while others may seem to be more vocal. I’m up and down on the topic. One second I’m just glad to get one after years of hoping, the other I’m outraged and pissed that it was done the way it was done. A lot of people are just plain upset and its not as easy as saying, don’t like it don’t buy it. There is no other F-14 in 1/18th scale to buy.

As for people taking us seriously I guess I don’t feel like we are really all that influential. I think they would like to please us but it’s not a necessity to them. Maybe I’m wrong but it seems like dollars are more involved than the collector’s perspective. I mean after all, if they were really concerned about us I feel the F-14 would have been done right. I’m fairly confident that the spots got caught up in their need to get this thing pushed out for the holidays. I will say that from what I have seen of it it’s truly an amazing model. Unfortunately it’s hard for many people to swallow the price tag knowing they will need to repaint it or live with it.

tmanthegreat · Post by **tmanthegreat** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:50 pm

I tend to agree more with Jericoeagle1 than I have qualms against what he says. The state of the board has long been a subject between myself and several other long standing members outside of this forum for quite some time now. It really gets tiring and is certainly not welcoming or entertaining anymore, let alone being anything that is informative. (Quite often, the general condition of the board is the source of my cranky and occasionally insulting posts around here

) The causes of this are many and include certain individual board members, the moderators, a general sense of close-mindedness, self-superiority, the economy, and a host of other things.

I will not point fingers at anyone, but there is a very strong tendency in general to stoop to whining about everything. The F-14 discussion is only the latest example. Sure, certain things are quite worthy of criticism: the F-14 spots, the inaccurate features of the 21c Tiger tank, etc, etc. There are many more things that are worthy of praise. Heck, it is simply amazing that we are seeing an F-14 in 1:18 scale, period! In the end, though, is it a life or death matter and is it something worth getting so worked up about?

Years ago, on the old GP forum and even this one at its start, the discussions were more constructive, civil, and consequently we were taken seriously. Heck, it was the customer relations staff person at 21c who recommended me to the old GP forum in 2003, such was their positive reputation. I believe that things can easily return to that norm, just that we have to exercise a certain amount of self control and the moderators need to stand up against the pure BS as well. We collectors do hold a certain amount of sway over over the toy-buying world, but only if we are serious about things. If we can work together to keep an open mind and not get ourselves tripped up in our emotions over really insignificant matters, we should be able to continue on as a serious force in the small scale military collecting world.

Ruger · Post by **Ruger** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:51 pm

Emotions should never guide a discussion, it just doesn't work. Arguments for and against should be made in a logical concise manner.

You don't talk to women much do you?

I've been watching the "Spotgate" discussion over the course of the last few months, and while I can't say it was always calm, cool, and collected, I still think it's head and shoulders above most internet forums. This place has always surprised me with its civility.

MV

Jericoeagle1 · Post by **Jericoeagle1** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:57 pm

Ruger wrote:
Emotions should never guide a discussion, it just doesn't work. Arguments for and against should be made in a logical concise manner.
You don't talk to women much do you?

I have eight sisters and have been married twice. Believe me I've spoken to plenty!

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:17 pm

the board is a reflection of its currently posting members. As people come and leave the 'personality' of the board changes over time. In the early days, when everything was new and fresh about this hobby and enthusiasm was running high, there was quite naturally less negativity and 'whining' and more of a positive feel.

Over time, as new manufacturers entered the frey and the hobby grew it attracted more members which lead to more diverse opinions. As competition lead to better and better products being made, the natural result was for many to push for even better products in future, which begat the critiques and criticisms of every new product that came out.

Every forum is like that, regardless of whether it's GI Joe, star wars etc

For the most part i and the other moderators have given a very free hand to what people say and how they conduct themselves. There have always been a few hard and fast rules, eg insults, racial slurs, politics but otherwise people have been free to voice their minds on here. I have never been a big fan of censorship and don't believe a moderator should impress his or her views on what other people say. A moderator is strictly to enforce the small number of rules and keep the peace.

As this hobby has declined over the last couple of years there has been an increase in complaining, 'whining', negativity etc, which is not surprising, but overall i think it has remained very civil and enjoyable. The pioneer days of 1/18 are gone for good and it will never be the same as it was in the old days.

But this forum still serves its purpose of informing people of new products, discussion of those products (whether you agree with the differing viewpoints or not), great ideas, great customs and fun.

Do i think the board has lost its way? Not at all. It's changed from what it was and will continue to change...but that's true of everything in life.

Bryce · Post by **Bryce** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:24 pm

This website lost its way when it became more about being seen sucking up then anything else. Honestly if you want to be a doormate thats your business, just dont expect to be taken serious by anybody.

iflabs · Post by **iflabs** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:28 pm

Not at all. A lot of us just has been sorely disappointed after all the anticipation for the F-14. We invest our time keeping tabs on it and some of us had to make sacrifices in order to pick it up on release (I sold my 1/32 F-14 for JSI's and skipped a few diecasts). I usually let minor inaccuracies slide off 1/18 models, but what JSI did to the F-14 was absurd.

Much like how BBI announced re-releases of their F-18 and F-16 but failed to deliver, bringing our hopes up and shooting it down. It worked a lot better when it just shows up in the market, like what Target had with the F-16s back in 2007.

CW4USARMY · Post by **CW4USARMY** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:31 pm

I've always thought of this forum as a place where we can gather info for our 1:18 scale addiction, but most importantly too discuss and share the hobby amongst each other. I dont remember this forum's charter being established for the purpose of appeasing manufacturers with blind hope they will actually listen. This board has its fair share of praise when a manufacturer gets it right. And it should (and does) have its fair share of criticism when they get it wrong. If folks dont like the forum, then dont visit. Isnt that the same response as "if you dont like it, dont buy it"?

I still enjoy this forum and would be lost in 1:18 collecting world if it weren't for all the great folks with their individual, and sometimes comedic, posts.

All the way!!!!

My 2 cents!

Post by **p51** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:12 pm

Bryce wrote:This website lost its way when it became more about being seen sucking up then anything else. Honestly if you want to be a doormate thats your business, just dont expect to be taken serious by anybody.

More about being seen sucking up? To whom?

Bryce · Post by **Bryce** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:36 pm

p51 wrote:
Bryce wrote:This website lost its way when it became more about being seen sucking up then anything else. Honestly if you want to be a doormate thats your business, just dont expect to be taken serious by anybody.
More about being seen sucking up? To whom?

Are you just trying to stir the pot?

Post by **aferguson** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:30 pm

i think he means members sucking up to the manufacturers.

That's my guess. His post is kind of hard to understand.

flyboy_fx · Post by **flyboy_fx** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:56 pm

Your just being a dick....

I am the one that is supposed to put gas on the fires......

But I think we should ban him, and let JSI give him a make over.....

I mean if there really........

Why start something.....

Post by **p51** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:06 pm

Bryce wrote: Are you just trying to stir the pot?

First off, a warning... I was just trying to understand your post, just like Aferg I was confused as to the meaning of what you said.

Secondly, making confusing accusations without much explanation then jumping to conclusions accusing someone of trying to 'stir the pot' when they were curious as to the context of what you were talking about in the first place... that's the type of thing that makes this board look cynical and harsh to new users.

Bryce · Post by **Bryce** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:23 pm

[ADMIN EDIT - Enjoy the ban]

MG-42 · Post by **MG-42** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:26 pm

.......... dude , your crossing the line. LET IT BE ! ! !

- MG

HIDEOUS ONE · Post by **HIDEOUS ONE** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:45 pm

I can't speak for anyone else but I check the forum constantly for new pics of peoples custom work to updates on products and so on. Just knowing that there is a place for such things 1:18 scaled and more gives me peace of mind. I don't care anything about "the industry" or the who's who. (usually just the rich trying to get richer off the working class anyway). I have never gotten over my love for 1:18 scale since I was a young lad and I never will. Thank you for this forum and don't let naysayers talk you out of it. Where am I going to premier the first installation of my WW2 stop motion movies if not here? You-tube? Got a way better response on this forum because of other enthusiasts like myself. Thanks again. Peace!

Post by **p51** » Mon Dec 14, 2009 5:45 pm

Moving this to forum threads instead of the 1:18 forum...

digger · Post by **digger** » Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:10 pm

tmanthegreat wrote:However, then came the last few years. 21c claimed to be the leader in small-scale military products - and certainly were by volume sold - but they were really loosing in competition to other companies in terms of the quality of the products and simply doing what they said they would. Then there were the product delays, poor quality control, and VERY UNEVEN distribution that favored certain areas over others. I know the distribution thing was partly out of 21c's control, but then they were also responsible. For one, they could have helped by getting the same items that were at all the Wal Marts in only certain sections of the country to the small retailers so that the rest of us could share in the wealth.

Btw, this shows no understanding of how Walmart works. You usually don't get a cut of a Walmart factory run to sell on the side in competition with them.

As for 21C not "simply doing what they said they would," I think every company can look in the mirror in that regard.

sax5thave · Post by **sax5thave** » Tue May 25, 2010 5:34 pm

I am both new and an outsider here. This forum was recommended to me by a member of G503. A forum where I belong for the past 4 years. At first I was overwhelmed by the rich treasure of information but after a while I got this feeling that the general aura here is that this site is not so friendly to new comers.

digger · Post by **digger** » Mon May 31, 2010 5:34 pm

sax5thave wrote:I am both new and an outsider here. This forum was recommended to me by a member of G503. A forum where I belong for the past 4 years. At first I was overwhelmed by the rich treasure of information but after a while I got this feeling that the general aura here is that this site is not so friendly to new comers.

That shouldn't be the aura. Perhaps we are all a bit sour about the state of our hobby. Hopefully happier times are in the future.

gouchy · Post by **gouchy** » Wed Jun 02, 2010 3:32 am

digger wrote:
sax5thave wrote:I am both new and an outsider here. This forum was recommended to me by a member of G503. A forum where I belong for the past 4 years. At first I was overwhelmed by the rich treasure of information but after a while I got this feeling that the general aura here is that this site is not so friendly to new comers.
That shouldn't be the aura. Perhaps we are all a bit sour about the state of our hobby. Hopefully happier times are in the future.

So true digger, just hang in there sax5thave

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:28 am

Of course i'm not a newcomer but I never have sensed a negative "aura" towards newcomers. I have sensed a strong negative response to stupidity, selfishness, spamming and general rudeness, however.
This is the best forum I am on or ever been a member of.
Despite the occasional run-in with the moderators I find it generally very fair, consistent and highly value my membership.

Small Scale Military Headquarters

Has this forum lost its way? YOU BE THE JUDGE!

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Has this forum lost its way? YOU BE THE JUDGE!

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