Small Scale Military Headquarters

Today is the anniversary of the Soviet aggression on Poland in 1939, 17 days after the Nazi attack. The terror against Poles was the same in both German and Russian occupation zones. Hundreds thousands Poles, within 15 000 Polish officers were murdered by the Soviets. The POWs were killed in 1940 in different places, the Katyn forest is one of them http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn. This word is for us the symbol of the Soviet genocide and lie. All Poles knew always the truth against the official communist propaganda.

The famous Polish director Andrzej Wajda whose father was one of the victims in the Katyn massacre made the movie which has it's premiere just today.

http://www.postmortem.netino.pl/. You can see an English trailer after clicking the word: "Zwiastuny" and then: "Zwiastun ang.".

This looks like a very interesting movie, will it be realeased outside of Poland? Also, didn't the russians try to pin the massacre on the germans?

Hello Wieslaw,

this movie remind us how coward we were in front of nazies to let them part Poland and later in front of russian for accepting their lies.

Hopefuly, this movie will now show us the true story.

Thanks for letting us know.

phil

Col.Pickle wrote:This looks like a very interesting movie, will it be realeased outside of Poland?

Pickle, I'm sure it will but I'm not sure if the range of it will be really wide. This is a non-English movie, without special effects and - I think (I didn't see it yet) - depressing. If I have any news I let you all know.

Col.Pickle wrote:Also, didn't the russians try to pin the massacre on the germans?

Yes, they did. Of course, Nazis as well as Soviets were able to do such massacre (the Nazi-Soviet co-operation in exterminating Poles was very effective not only before the German attack on Russia, see the Warsaw Rising...) but this time the murderer was Stalin and his NKVD.

Phil, the problem of the Katyn-lie is the important thread of the movie. Yes, the Allies goverments accepted the Soviet position and even after the war Katyn was an uncomfortable theme in the free world. Well, it was most important to win the war and you could not compare the powers of the Red Army and the Polish Armed Forces. However it was sad...

Thanks

i bet i'll be able to see it in France

sounds like a kinda depressing but interesting movie

blaster_e11 wrote:i bet i'll be able to see it in France

Blaster, yes and one of the reasons can be the name of Andrzej Wajda, who made some of his movies just in France ("Danton"...) and I think is enough popular film director in your country.

This movie is Poland's candidate to 2008 Oscar.

You should also celebrate the capture of Moscow in 1610 by Polish forces under Zygmunt who would have kept control over the city had he not insisted on placing the Tsar's crown on his head instead of giving it to his son ( Wladislaw)
who had agreed to convert to Orthodoxy in order to gain the crown. Poland was quite an empire then and a huge player in European politics of the time.

Mark

Mark,
you are a true expert in history ! Thank you for the reminder of the days of Poland's glory!

Unfortunately, we had to leave Moscow in 1612 (and the anniversary of that is celebrated as the national holiday in Russia). We could say it was an ordinary, cruel war, a simple rivalry between two countries, but not only: Poland (or rather the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth) represented the aims of the noblemen's democracy (10 - 15% of popullation - more than in any country in that time - had full civil rights and elected not only the parliament but even the kings), of the individual freedom, of the tolerance (Catholics, Protestants, Orthodox, Jews and Muslims lived in harmony; in the age of religious wars, the dissidents from whole Europe took cover in Poland).

I think, that war was partly similar to the war in Vietnam. Moscow was not our legacy but by leaving it, we sentenced millions of innocent Russians to a life under their own tyranny...

Is this out with subs yet?
Got torrent link?

Sorry, I didn't found anywhere. I'm sure the movie will be released in US and it will have the English subtitles. I will let you know.

eh just give me a 0 region DVD and I'll be good.

looks good, this and the new Finn movie coming out.

So So much better than the stuff Hollywood puts out these days.

I'm sure that the film' like Downfall, Dark Blue Sky and Winter war, will be available at some point in the US.

This movie should go far to record what I consider an atrocity that goes right up there with the massacre of the Jews in the final solution and the Japanese treatment of POW's and occupied peoples. Yeah, it's depressing, but very necessary. I'm not just saying that because I have a Polish last name (I'm not of Polish blood, believe it or not), but when you read about this stuff throughout your life, it really starts to boil deep down. A shame of humanity, really.....

-Ski

Rev. Zdzislaw Peszkowski, the chaplain of the Katyn Families Association, died in Warsaw a day before yesterday. He was the last living of the group of only 250 Polish officers who were prisoners in the Soviet POW-camp in Kozielsk and avoided the massacre in Katyn forest. I had a honor to meet him and speak with him personally some years ago...

***

Finally I saw the movie. Great picture. I hope it will be released in other European countries as well as in US. Maybe in Russia, too...

Well, no Oscar for Andrzej Wajda's "Katyn"... A bit sad. Irrespective of the movie's quality (it is very good for me) it was a chance to show the important (but rather unknown outside Poland) part of the Polish history to the world. I hope "Katyn" will be released in your countries - the Oscar nomination is finally an award, too. I'm waiting to watch the Austrian winner movie - it is also the WW II story.

Will be keeping a watch for that movie,sounds very interesting.

exether_mega wrote:Hello Wieslaw,

this movie remind us how coward we were in front of nazies to let them part Poland and later in front of russian for accepting their lies.

Hopefuly, this movie will now show us the true story.

Thanks for letting us know.

phil

I think the worst was when the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto rose up with the Russians 20 miles from the city. The Russians quit the advance to "consolidate" their positions. The allies wanted to drop supplies into the ghetto but the Russians put the kibash on that with the reasoning that we had shot up a Russian general a few months before during one of the shuttle missions.

An absolute crying shame.

Olifant,

there were two uprisings in Warsaw.

The first one was the Ghetto Rising, which took place April/May 1943. In that time was the Soviet-German front very far from Warsaw (it was before the battle of Kursk!). The Nazis decided to exterminate all Jews living in the Warsaw Ghetto. The Jews wanted to die with arms in hands. There was no resque for them. The only weapon they had was given them by the Polish Home Army. Practically all Jews were killed in the combat or later in the concentration camps. Some photos you can see here http://www.powstanie-warszawskie-1944.a ... tto_43.htm.

The second one was the Warsaw Uprising 1944. The Soviets were really near Warsaw, then. The Germans were in retreat and they seemed to be weak. The Poles wanted to revenge on Nazis five years of terror and the death of hundreds thousands people and to "welcome" the Soviets in the free capital. The Rising started on August 1. After 63 days of deadly fights between the poorly (or not) equipped insurgents and the regular German troops, after terrific massacres of civilians the Rising collapsed. The American and British (within Polish) Flying Fortresses, Liberators, Halifaxes dropped the supply (most of them fallen in German hands) but could not resque. The Soviets stopped their offensive and waited on the second Vistula strand to the end of fights. More here http://www.warsawuprising.com and here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_Uprising

These both risings were different. The aim of the Ghetto Rising was to die with honor. The aim of the 1944 Rising was to liberate the Poland's capital. In Ghetto fought about 1000 poor armed Jewish insurgents against 3000 Germans with tanks and artillery. In the battle were killed 7000 Jews, 6000 burned and 50 000 taken to the concentration camp (and murdered). In Warsaw Rising 1944 fought over 30 000 poor armed Polish insurgents against 50 000 good equipped Germans and their allies (within anti-Soviet Russians) with tanks, heaviest artillery, STUKAs. 15 000 Polish insurgents and 200 000 (!!!) civilians were killed in fights. The German losses in Ghetto 1943 were only 16 killed soldiers (after the German report; probably more really). In 1944 Rising the Germans lost 16 000 killed and missing, 3 planes, 310 tanks and armored cars. After the capitulation of the Warsaw Rising the Germans had time to burn and demolish the city. 80% buildings of the great city were totally destroyed.

Thanks for the clarity Wieslaw. It is just such a shame to think how these brave men and women died.

Where in Poland do you live? I have always wanted to visit Krakow but have never made it that far east.

Olifant,
I live in Rzeszow (150 km east of Krakow). Yes, there are many places in Poland which are worth seeing but Krakow is no doubt the first. I studied 11 years just in Krakow and know the city, it's history, monuments and museums very well. Let me know when you'll be in Krakow.
Thanks
Wieslaw

It may be a while but I would be glad to look you up. I have heard that Krakow is as beautiful as Prague but without all the tourists, kind of a hidden gem.

If I do come I will bring a suitcase full of 21C for you!

Olifant,

thanks. It will be nice to see you even without the suitcase .

I'm not sure regarding the number of tourists in Krakow. After the city won a couple of rankings it is still growing...

Is there a list of victims?

VMF,

yes there is, you can see it here: http://download.wojsko-polskie.pl/uploa ... _lista.pdf It must be not complete because we don't know yet all places where there are the graves of murdered Poles.