CPSIA ruling and local church consignment sale

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 2:50 am

This was the gist of a local email we recieved---

We wanted to let you know about a new law, CPSIA (Consumer Products Safety Improvement Act) that goes into effect on February 10, 2009. The intent of this law is very good; it is intended to guard against elevated lead levels in children's toys. However, it appears that the law was very hastily conceived. Essentially, this law renders any children's product, that has not been specifically tested for lead, a "Federally Hazardous Substance" and illegal to sell. The law is written to apply "retroactively," which means that after Feb. 10, 2009 the selling of any used children's product that has not been specifically tested for lead will be a crime. This affects our seasonal consignment events, consignment stores, thrift stores, ebay transactions, church yard sales, individual yard sales, even private individual transactions." It also affects all of you creative moms that have turned your handi-craft into a business by making bows, designing clothing, painting furniture, hand crafting toys and bibs.... none of these things can lawfully go to market without first absorbing the extreme expense of lead testing. We are confident that this law, when further explored, will be amended. We are told that an exception clause is being considered for clothing. If it is not amended, all consignment sales will need to shut their doors on Feb 9th or be in violation of the law. We are very hopeful that this exception clause will happen quickly, maybe this week. Below is a link to contact our representatives and voice your concern over this law. In today's economy so many of us depend on resale- ing and buying children's items. www.usa.gov/Contact/Elected.shtml Thanks!

I know there was already a thread on this, but is this (without revisions) how it really might be in laymens terms??

Post by **aferguson** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:21 am

i suspect a blind eye will be turned to selling of toys made before the deadline on ebay, consignment stores etc. The intent of the law was to make toys safer going forward, not to bankrupt every toy seller in america.

Also, who is going to prosecute someone who sells an untested Lego set on ebay or at a garage sale? Are the FBI going to come swooping in each time? Also, a disclaimer such as 'not for children 12 years of age and under' may cover one's ass. However, not being allowed to sell toys to children seems ridiculous in the extreme.

The other thread was closed because it decayed into a series of posts which were nothing more than political whining and bashing. This thread will suffer the same fate if that happens again.

Tambo · Post by **Tambo** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:29 am

This is a stupid Law...waste of government time. I hope it changes.

On another note you guys ever see all the stupid Laws still on the books?

In Georgia...Donkeys may not be kept in bathtubs and Goldfish may not be given away to entice someone to enter a game of bingo.

In Tennessee...You can’t shoot any game other than whales from a moving automobile and It is illegal to use a lasso to catch a fish.

that law is just a stupid...

check them all out.

http://www.dumblaws.com/

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:45 am

yeah, I spent two years in the local pokey for keepin my donkey in the bathtub- it was the the master bathroom instead of the hall one, but that did'nt make a flying flip to the local judge. I think my neigbors busted me out. Its nobodys bidness what I do with my goldfish behind closed doors!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Razor17019 · Post by **Razor17019** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 9:48 am

Tambo wrote:On another note you guys ever see all the stupid Laws still on the books?

In Georgia...Goldfish may not be given away to entice someone to enter a game of bingo.

I knew there was some chicanery going on at that last bingo hall in Atlanta!
"Free Goldfish with EVERY bingo card!"

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:47 am

Ohhhhhhh.........daaaaaaaaaaammmmmnnnn.

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:18 pm

We can say ass on here???

Tambo · Post by **Tambo** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:24 pm

be carefull in Atlanta Georgia....because it is against the law to tie a giraffe to a telephone pole or street lamp and One man may not be on another man’s back.

in Kennesaw Every head of household must own a gun.

in Columbus It is illegal for stores to sell corn flakes on Sunday.

in Memphis Tennessee it is Illegal for a woman to drive a car unless there is a man either running or walking in front of it waving a red flag to warn approaching motorists and pedestrians.

in Staten Island New York you may only water your lawn if the hose is held in your hand.

and the stupid list goes on.

mikeg · Post by **mikeg** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:55 pm

well, the crime rate in kennesaw is hovering around zero- only a couple of heads of households have been arrested and tried for not having a gun in the home. The local police will provide a reputable and reliable firearm to any local without the funds to purchase a firearm- they are provided out of evidence room of past criminal cases. kennesaw laws also trump atf regulations allowing class 2 and 3 firearms to anyone over the age of 17 within city limits and all household firearms are required to have a .40 bore or larger.... OK, just kidding

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:12 pm

mikeg wrote:well, the crime rate in kennesaw is hovering around zero- only a couple of heads of households have been arrested and tried for not having a gun in the home. The local police will provide a reputable and reliable firearm to any local without the funds to purchase a firearm- they are provided out of evidence room of past criminal cases. kennesaw laws also trump atf regulations allowing class 2 and 3 firearms to anyone over the age of 17 within city limits and all household firearms are required to have a .40 bore or larger.... OK, just kidding

Damn....I was just thinkin of moving there:(

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 3:24 pm

many local cities still have the no spitting on the sidewalks law - It was originally written due to TB concerns - not that fact that tobacco was being spit on the street -

popeye357 · Post by **popeye357** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 6:41 pm

Do they cane people when they spit on the sidewalk??

STUKA · Post by **STUKA** » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:12 pm

nah you just get the big hairy eyeball!

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:06 am

ooops

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:15 am

aferguson wrote:i suspect a blind eye will be turned to selling of toys made before the deadline on ebay, consignment stores etc. The intent of the law was to make toys safer going forward, not to bankrupt every toy seller in america.

Also, who is going to prosecute someone who sells an untested Lego set on ebay or at a garage sale? Are the FBI going to come swooping in each time? Also, a disclaimer such as 'not for children 12 years of age and under' may cover one's ass. However, not being allowed to sell toys to children seems ridiculous in the extreme.

It is NOT a matter of "who would", It IS a matter of they CAN!!

My concern is that this law will now be available to any law enforcement agency that chooses to use it. No, they won't swoop down on all of those transactions, just enough to chill the entire market.

One can mock all of the absurd laws on the books that exist but that does not change the reality that no one would want to tangle with the federal government that has just passed this law. And this isn't simply selling "safe" toys. It is TESTING those toys prior to sale.

If a retailer complains about a PTA Thrift Shop because he thinks it is taking some of his (potential) business the police will literally have to close down the Thrift Shop.

eBay is notorious in the way it polices its members and may very well decide to avoid any potential liability by shutting off this part of the market.

The whole thing seems so absurd, yet it will/could readily eliminate the entire USA re-sale market. This is in fact very serious folks. Current retailers are facing a large loss of business due to the "recession." If they can eliminate a "market" in competition with them do you think that they will hesitate? And what will happen to the economy if the entire re-sale market is eliminated?

My question then moves to: If someone pays for something on February 8th, can you mail it to them on February 9th or 10th?

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Fri Jan 09, 2009 11:17 am

aferguson wrote:i suspect a blind eye will be turned to selling of toys made before the deadline on ebay, consignment stores etc. The intent of the law was to make toys safer going forward, not to bankrupt every toy seller in america.

Also, who is going to prosecute someone who sells an untested Lego set on ebay or at a garage sale? Are the FBI going to come swooping in each time? Also, a disclaimer such as 'not for children 12 years of age and under' may cover one's ass. However, not being allowed to sell toys to children seems ridiculous in the extreme.

It is NOT a matter of "who would", It IS a matter of they CAN!!

My concern is that this law will now be available to any law enforcement agency that chooses to use it. No, they won't swoop down on all of those transactions, just enough to chill the entire market.

One can mock all of the absurd laws on the books that exist but that does not change the reality that no one would want to tangle with the federal government that has just passed this law. And this isn't simply selling "safe" toys. It is TESTING those toys prior to sale.

If a retailer complains about a PTA Thrift Shop because he thinks it is taking some of his (potential) business the police will literally have to close down the Thrift Shop.

eBay is notorious in the way it polices its members and may very well decide to avoid any potential liability by shutting off this part of the market.

The whole thing seems so absurd, yet it will/could readily eliminate the entire USA re-sale market. This is in fact very serious folks. Current retailers are facing a large loss of business due to the "recession." If they can eliminate a "market" in competition with them do you think that they will hesitate? And what will happen to the economy if the entire re-sale market is eliminated?

My question then moves to: If someone pays for something on February 8th, can you mail it to them on February 9th or 10th?

GSgtHartman · Post by **GSgtHartman** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:25 am

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml09/09086.html

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:53 am

So resellers don't have to test. But they are not allowed to sell toys, etc,. with lead content in excess of the limitations.

tkjaer21 · Post by **tkjaer21** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:04 pm

So does that mean that Ebay will be dead in terms of our product or not?

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:34 pm

I think that will be up to ebay. They are notorious for outlawing items they think they might get sued for selling. Or hyaving been in volved in the selling of. After all- they have the deepest pockets.

In terms of our product I would sell as collectibles rather than as toys and specifically to "adults only." Another adult-rated product rears its head.

Post by **aferguson** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:58 pm

i highly doubt it. For one thing, there has been no mention of this from ebay in the announcement board, and that usually talk about new changes well in advance and this law kicks in soon.

Plus, ebay makes a lot of money from toys, collectables and all things children related. If they were to abolish all of it they would be out a lot of income at a time when they're already hurting.

At worst, toy sellers may have to put in a disclaimer saying the toy is untested and not suitable for children 12 and under......which of course would be ignored by most who buy them.

But if the law were enforced the way it is, every toy seller in america would face bankruptcy. Just think of the gigantic inventory of untested toys that are sitting in store warehouses and on shelves, that could no longer be sold.

I'm sure that new toys coming in the future will have to comply but the retroactive part of the law will largely be ignored, i'm guessing, unless the desire is to weaken further an already struggling economy over something that's not even really a problem, as virtually all toys are completely safe now.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 2:11 pm

There is a lot of discussion on the ebay seller forum though.

Trepidation as well.

I think that this was another hastily enacted and poorly written piece of legislation that will be re-engineered as it goes along.

Apparently there is a lot of leeway for interpretation that has left a lot of confusion out there. Officially as well as among the selling community.

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:34 pm

"Are the FBI going to come swooping in each time?"

Probably not in Canada....

vmf214 · Post by **vmf214** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 3:37 pm

Ebay does have the age group thing within their listing module but most I think just blow past it. Don't think it's in the model sections though but isn't it in the diecast section. That's a good idea just to be safe though if one is selling XD and the like, even if the option isn't available to specify an age group, still list one in the description. We can't trust that this legislation will be interpreted intelligently afterall.

ltcbj · Post by **ltcbj** » Sun Jan 18, 2009 4:04 pm

I second that. No intelligent interpretations!!

Small Scale Military Headquarters

CPSIA ruling and local church consignment sale

CPSIA ruling and local church consignment sale

.

Does this help?