Small Scale Military Headquarters

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 5:47 pm**

Hello,
After revisiting the IXO He-162 Salamander jet fighter, I cant help but wonder how this machine could have helped the Luftwaffe or the German war effort at the closing stages of the Second World War. For starters, it was designed as a "throw away aircraft" where it could be replaced, relatively cheaply, by additional machines, instead of being reserviced. It was also designed to be piloted by Hitler Youth, who, after receiving minimal training in gliders, were supposed to take a high-performance jet up high to where the bomber streams were flying and deal the bombers a death blow while fending off P-51 escorts.

Besides the ludicrous notion that a fledgling pilot could handle such a complex machine there are the obvious shortcomings of the aircraft's design. For openers, it must have been incredibly noisy, with the engine mounted on the dorsal side of the fuselage just behind the pilot. Second, by positioning the single jet engine aft of the pilot, the pilot cant see behind him. Third, how was a pilot supposed to bail out of a damaged jet? He would have been immediately sucked into the air intakes after releasing the canopy.

With its short stubby wings, I'm sure it must have handled like a pig in flight, nowhere near as capable as the swept wing Me 262. To me, it makes the Kamikaze attacks in the Pacific look almost sane by comparison.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 6:09 pm**

I recall reading something recently about the Salamander falling apart in the air.

Let me look around for some hard data... here we go:

http://www.vectorsite.net/avhe162.html

From mid-April, I/JG-1 had scored a number of kills, but had also lost thirteen He-162s and ten pilots. Most of the losses were from flying accidents, due to problems such as engine flame-outs and occasional structural failures. The difficulties with the type seem to have been due to the fact that it was rushed into production, not that it was an inherently bad design. One experienced Luftwaffe pilot who flew it called it a "first-class combat aircraft".

Erprobungskommando 162 fighters, which had been passed on to an operational unit under Adolf Galland a few weeks earlier, were all destroyed by their crews to keep the jets from falling into Allied hands. However, JG-1 cooperatively turned their He-162s over to the Allies, and examples of the fighter were then flown in the US, Britain, France, and the USSR. One British pilot who evaluated the He-162 also praised it, though a second British pilot was killed in November 1945 during an air display at Farnborough. One of the tailfins broke off, sending the fighter into the ground.

The design had some clear weaknesses, of course, such as its short endurance and the fact that the position of the engine left the pilot almost completely blind to the vital rear "six" position. Some sources also state that the back-mounted engine made the aircraft logitudinally unstable, rendering any maneuvers that "threw the aircraft around" unsafe.

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 7:32 pm**

The IXO plane represents an HE-163 captured by the British at Leck, Germany. It had served with 3 Staffel, Einsatz-Gruppe 1 of JG 1 and was the personal aircraft of the Staffelkapitän, Oberleutnant Erich Demuth. The kill markings on the tail were earned while he flew other aircraft, prior to transfering to the HE-163.

Here's a photo I took of an actual HE-163, painted in markings from the same unit as the IXO plane. This particular aircraft is on display at the RAF Museum near London, England:

...and here's another photo of an actual example, capturing the unique lines of the plane. This photo was taken at the Imperial War Museum in London:

Posted: **Mon May 07, 2007 10:39 pm**

That's a real pity, because the Salamander looked like one sweet ride.

Speaking of suicide machines, behold:

The Fi-103 "Reichenberg." Quite possibly one of the stupidest ideas to come out of Germany's faltering aircraft industry. It was basically an un-manned V-1 that could be launched by a bomber (He-111 possibly). Upon sighting the target, the pilot would lock in the controls, and bail out (Yeah right

).

Posted: **Tue May 08, 2007 1:17 am**

The early prototypes fell apart due to glue problems (wood construction) but once this was sorted out it was actually a very good little plane. It was fairly easy to fly and being the fastest operational jet of the war, the tactics the young pilots were to use were quite simple: no dogfighting, just dive in on the enemy plane, squeezing off a burst from the guns as you zip passed, use your energy to gain altitude and do it again.

As with the 262, the problems would have been during take off and landing, when low flight speed would have made it vulnerable to loitering allied fighters.

It was actually a pretty sound overall concept, given the desperation of the times and far from a suicide machine...at least no more than sending any inexperienced pilot into combat against an enemy who has air supremacy...and the pilots probably would have been safer in a Salamandar than in a 109 or 190.

Considering it was designed, built and put into production in about 100 days, it was a remarkable achievement.

Posted: **Tue May 08, 2007 5:33 pm**

lightning2000 wrote:Hello,
After revisiting the IXO He-162 Salamander jet fighter, I cant help but wonder how this machine could have helped the Luftwaffe or the German war effort at the closing stages of the Second World War. For starters, it was designed as a "throw away aircraft" where it could be replaced, relatively cheaply, by additional machines, instead of being reserviced. It was also designed to be piloted by Hitler Youth, who, after receiving minimal training in gliders, were supposed to take a high-performance jet up high to where the bomber streams were flying and deal the bombers a death blow while fending off P-51 escorts.

Besides the ludicrous notion that a fledgling pilot could handle such a complex machine there are the obvious shortcomings of the aircraft's design. For openers, it must have been incredibly noisy, with the engine mounted on the dorsal side of the fuselage just behind the pilot. Second, by positioning the single jet engine aft of the pilot, the pilot cant see behind him. Third, how was a pilot supposed to bail out of a damaged jet? He would have been immediately sucked into the air intakes after releasing the canopy.

With its short stubby wings, I'm sure it must have handled like a pig in flight, nowhere near as capable as the swept wing Me 262. To me, it makes the Kamikaze attacks in the Pacific look almost sane by comparison.

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Much has been made of the Hitler Jugend proposal to fly these, but that plan died quietly. JG 1 was a group of fairly seasoned Luftwaffe pilots. It was apparently more than a handful. Bailout was by ejection seat - the second operational aircraft to have it after the He 219. Incidentally, the glue problem was not sorted out by the end. Apparently, the slave laborers that were aiding in the construction were urinating in the glue (big surprise there). Adolf Dickfield writes about one aircraft literally going to pieces after landing following a dogfight with P-47s. In their week or so of operational use, they managed several victories and at least one loss in air combat.

Posted: **Tue May 08, 2007 6:30 pm**

better than flying a Me 163 into combat in my opinion.

although all for all, I'd still rather fly a 190A/F, than one of the jets.

Posted: **Tue May 08, 2007 10:37 pm**

Yeah, with the He 162, at least you don't have to worry about getting a T-stoff & C-stoff bath at some point during your short flying career. Not to mention the severe damage to your spine from the rough landings.

The fact that a functional jet fighter was designed & constructed in 100 days is enough to give this one a deserved page in the history books. It was a desperate measure, true enough - but they had no choice but to take risks with pilot's lives when the skies were filled with Allied heavy bombers 'round the clock.

Where exactly can I find this "IXO" He 162? I didn't know it had been made in diecast.

Posted: **Wed May 09, 2007 12:12 am**

Panzer_M wrote:better than flying a Me 163 into combat in my opinion.

although all for all, I'd still rather fly a 190A/F, than one of the jets.

Lol, you might as well put a luger to your head than fly the Komet. Give me a "Focke Mustang" (The 190 D9) to deal with the verdamnt Amis and Tommies. The jets looked cool, but they were still "new" and were quite cantankerous (Even the Schwalbe).

Posted: **Wed May 09, 2007 12:15 am**

ChairmanMilo wrote:Where exactly can I find this "IXO" He 162? I didn't know it had been made in diecast.

Hmm... the IXO HE-163 was a limited release in the US (IXO is actually a European company that makes diecast cars and planes). I've checked some of the online stores that had the plane at one time, like www.badcataviation.com , www.theflyingmule.com , www.themotorpool.net , www.diecastdirect.com , etc. and didn't find anything except a couple "out of stock" listings. There is, however, one on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/IXO-Junior-HEINKEL- ... dZViewItem

Here's a picture:

Posted: **Wed May 09, 2007 1:37 am**

Thank you. That little jet looks gorgeous.

Posted: **Wed May 09, 2007 6:00 am**

Hello All,
I'm glad this little plane has spurred such an intriguing dialogue. While the product pipeline has been a little dry of late coming out of Chinese New Years, its good to know that collectors such as yourselves are discussing these memorabilia instead of just simply hoarding them without knowing what they brought to the military stage.

Cordially,

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Posted: **Wed May 09, 2007 6:49 am**

The Military Toy Shop has them in stock.

http://www.militarytoyshop.com/prodtype ... istory=cat

Posted: **Fri May 11, 2007 6:57 pm**

Question: What was the significance of the red arrow painted at the front end of the fuselage?

Lightning2000
www.themotorpool.net

Posted: **Fri May 11, 2007 7:24 pm**

just a unit marking..

Posted: **Fri May 11, 2007 7:34 pm**

-Plane flies this way-

-H

Posted: **Fri May 11, 2007 7:36 pm**

You can't see it but there is a "VRROOOMMM" painted on the other side of the engine.

-H

Posted: **Sun May 13, 2007 3:44 pm**

Germans had a lot of issues with glue not only holding, but actually degrading the strength of the wood it was adhering. Another plane that suffered was the Focke-Wulf TA-154 Moskito. It was not a particularly good aircraft to start, but it had wood wings that liked to shed due to the glue eating into the wood structure.

There is a full size replica as well:
http://www.luftfahrttechnisches-museum- ... _154_.html

-Ski

Small Scale Military Headquarters

He-162 - Suicide Machine?

He-162 - Suicide Machine?

Re: He-162 - Suicide Machine?

Salamander

Quick Question