what colour Val should i get?

[aferguson]

i'm planning on getting a Skymax 1/72 Val but am undecided which colour i should get.

The first couple they made are in the newly accepted colour of light carmel olive. I gather the gen-pop freaked out because after that, Skymax switched to the more familiar light grey.

So now, i'm going to buy one and am undecided. I'm going to get either an Akagi one (which is light grey) or a Shokaku one (which is light carmel). Both can be had for about the same cost.

I'm back and forth on this. The carmel is probably more accurate but the light grey is so much more familiar. But, if one day the carmel colour turns out to be incorrect, then having a carmel one in the collection will look dumb, whereas the light grey will always look good no matter what reality deals.

[Dauntless]

I couldn't decide either for a while, but there are three grey versions available whereas there is only one of the tan versions made. They started getting hard to find and I could only find it at one place.
Didn't want to miss out if they sold out. Not sorry I bought it at all though, it's nice.

The little1:144 X-Plus Zeroes and some of the 21stC 1:32 planes have a similar tan color on them also I noticed.

Of the three grey ones, the newest one looks cool with the black wheel fairings, but it's the most expensive.

Still going to get a grey one, but I can't decide which one. I'm no help there.
There seems to be many of them available though to buy later.

[snake]

Kind of a personal choice, Aferg.

Think the grey ones are a safe choice, but a little boring in my opinion. Especially if you can get one of the more colourful ones.

I don't have any 1/72 scale prop fighters,other than a Russian La-5, that was a free bonus with a purchase that I made.

But I do have a couple of single engined bombers, as they are slighty bigger, including a Val.

I went for the green one, as it is pretty colourful, and certainly jumps out at you.

[Dauntless]

I've got that one also Snake. It's sort of like the Fuchida Kate. Just a tad more subdued in reality. The green is like the HM Kates.

Interesting read on Japanese Pearl Harbor Vals, with some color info. Could only find one link in there but there are some pics of artifacts.
http://www.j-aircraft.com/faq/D3A.htm#D3A%20VAL%2022%20

[[CAT]CplSlade]

Get the one that best matches your eyes.

[Epap]

While there is growing evidence from plane wreckage at Pearl and elsewhere that the real color of most Vals at this stage of WW2 was a olive gray, not light---almost white----gray. Several of the SkyMax models had this color before the Japanese distributor insisted on a change to very light gray. So, if you want some measure of reality, go with the early gray-green or "olive" Vals put out by SkyMax. Unfortunately, as with big brother HM's models, the factory couldn't be bothered to lighten the colors---even when it got them right----to account for the "scale effect". As a result, the olive shaded Vals are too dark, in my opinion, while the new, light gray ones are too light as well as lacking a greenish tint. Maybe you are better off with the colorful green over gray one sporting those colorful yellow and red tail and fuselage markings. This plane saw action against the Brits in the Japanese "raid" into the Indian Ocean, following the Pearl Harbor attack, so it's not a December 7th item.

[plasticgeneral]

"PINK with POLKA-DOTS"

[snake]

"PINK with POLKA-DOTS"

What?

[Dauntless]

Some people are just mr. smarty pants.

It was thought at one time there was a pink (or mauve) colored Rufe floatplane. There's some nice artwork from Revell's P-40E Aleutian Tiger which has one being shot down. Most probably inaccurate, but always liked the picture.



Important to note that the Aichi Val sank more shipping than any other aircraft during WWII.

Not to bad for a fixed gear nearly obsolete aircraft.

Wish someone would make the second D3A2 version in 1:72.

[aferguson]

the pink or mauve Rufe is actually a red brown colour that the Japanese navy sometimes used on their aircraft. Not sure if it was just a primer or what was up with using that colour.

F toys makes a nice 1/144 D3A2, as you're probably aware, but nothing in 1/72 (except kits).

[plasticgeneral]

I was joking, but during WWII they would used outdated bombers to lead the formations by giving them crazy paint schemes, LIKE THIS EXAMPLE.

http://www.ww2incolor.com/us-air-force/b24-stripes.html

There was a poka dot one, but I cant fi nd it.

Plastic General

[plasticgeneral]

TONNES of PHOTOS!!!
STRIPED & POLKA-DOTTED BOMBERS!!

http://www.mellophant.com/forums/showth ... udas-Goats

Plastic General

[Dauntless]

Yeah those assembly ships are unusual and quite gaudy PG. They don't seem to sell very well either in any scale. The Brits actually had a pink Spitfire. 21st Century Toys made a 1:144 version of it.

the pink or mauve Rufe is actually a red brown colour that the Japanese navy sometimes used on their aircraft. Not sure if it was just a primer or what was up with using that colour.

F toys makes a nice 1/144 D3A2, as you're probably aware, but nothing in 1/72 (except kits).

Ordered that F-Toys Val and the rest of them Aferg.

Also stumbled upon the latest Skymax Val on ebay for less than $47 shipped. They usually go for $59 so I jumped on it. It has the aircraft carrier base to it. Seems to be the best looking of the three grey ones.

[aferguson]

while researching what colour Val i should get i found this from Nick Millman, who is apparently one of the 'horses mouths' when it comes to being an expert on the colour of early war japanese navy planes. And this is what he said:

"There is a contemporaneous description of the factory colour in the official Kugiho 0266 report from February 1942 which is consistent with the current appearance of the paint surface on surviving pieces. Separate pieces from different aircraft have been measured with photospectrometric equipment to identify their colour values by two separate researchers in two different countries with exactly similar results. The original pigments in the paint have now been identified and when recreated and aged in laboratory conditions the appearance is exactly similar to the surviving pieces. Most of the surviving paint surfaces have darkened and yellowed slightly with thermal ageing. Across scores of artifacts a clear coat of varnish has been found on only one example and is suspected to have been added post-war to protect it as a "souvenir".

The "caramel" or amber (ameiro) effect on the grey is not the result of a varnish but rather an inherent characteristic of the interaction of the pigments and additives used in the original paint (as is the slightly greenish appearance) and specifically designed for application to light metals. Fabric surfaces (rudder and ailerons) were coated with a different formula that did not possess this characteristic and were more neutral grey in appearance.

There are no definitive Navy greys available in hobby paints but the selection of these remains a matter of personal choice. Comparing them to the actual paint colour Tamiya XF-76 represents a moderately weathered (oxidised and "chalked") appearance on a Mitsubishi aircraft. White Ensigns Colour Coats ACJ16 Mitsubishi Zero Grey-Green is perhaps the closest to the colour as applied at the factory but just a little too brown. RAF "Hemp" is also similar but not exactly so - the Humbrol version being a little off. Polly Scale or Floquil "Concrete" are reasonable for a slightly weathered example. Gunze (GSI/Creos) RLM 02 is a little too dark and not quite amber enough. None of these paints quite captures the hue and reflectivity of the original (unscaled) colour. It is remarkably subtle - and pleasing - in appearance.

The closest colour standards are FS 16350 (still slightly too brown) and RAL 7002 Olivgrau (Olive Grey) or RAL 7034 Gelbgrau (Yellow Grey). The latter descriptions are appropriate. The colour is very similar to RLM 02 and has the same metamerismic shift between green and brown. There is a whole swathe of paint technology and colour science behind this observation that I won't go into here.

In operational use, particularly in tropical environments the paint surface oxidised and "chalked" rapidly towards the appearance of the bleached neutral and slightly blueish greys known so well."

So apparently Japanese planes were NOT varnished at all. The grey colour paint used simply was the light olive colour we have known to become 'correct' but as it weathered became more whitish in appearance.

So now i'm really confused. I think to play it safe i'm going with the light grey i've known since childhood......at least it won't look ridiculous like the carmel colour will if one day it's proven to be incorrect.


http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/inde ... navy-grey/

[Dauntless]

I dunno, if the Japanese e-tailers insisted on the light grey, maybe it's correct. Surely someone could have gotten an opinion from an actual Val pilot at one time?

I like both, but at least the light grey is like the movies made, and surely while making the first one they were heavily influenced by former IJN sources.

I don't feel bad about any of my Val purchases either way, after all it's kind of a rare thing to actually get one made this well in 1:72 diecast.

Interesting how some things like color identification can get lost to history.

Also note that today's airforce uses a similar color on modern aircraft known as low vis grey.
The Val was high up in the clouds for dive bombing so one would think a grey would work better than a tan no?

[aferguson]

yes, i'm still not sold on any of the colour theories surrounding japanese navy planes of this time frame. The light grey is a reasonable colour if you're on the offensive, as it's a tough colour to spot in the sky but lousy on the ground/ship and over water. But if you're on the offensive you're less worried about incoming raids, so that kind of camo doesn't matter so much.

So why deliberately make a colour that is tannish/light greenish? Mind you British undersides of early war planes were duck egg which is a greenish blue.

I know a lot of hard scientific research has gone into this colour thing but i'm still not sold. So playing it safe with the very familiar light grey seems the way to go, for me, anyway.

But i did have a similar reaction during the revolution in Luftwaffe colours in the late 70's and early 80's when the late war greens and brun violets etc were discovered. That took a lot of getting used to too, and has turned out to be correct.

So i guess i'm back where i started......lol.

[Dauntless]

Agreed, thinking along the lines of a Navy color of battleships and aircraft carriers though probably a darker grey.
The Vals operating altitude is in the clouds which are a grey not tan.
But why are some other aircraft like the Zero the beige color? Unless you buy the Witty Wings Zeroes which are grey.

Came across one of the Vals that Taylor and Welch encountered on Wings Palette:

Crew: PO2c Gen Goto (pilot) and PO2c Michiji Utsugi (radioman/gunner). Akagi carrier. Pearl Harbor attack, 7th December 1941. This aircraft They were Zenji Abe's no.2 wingmen (AI-210). This plane was attacked by George Welch and Utsugi hit Welch's P-40, then Kenneth Taylor (P-40) attacked, wounded Utsugi and shot the plane down into the ocean just south of the shore line, east of Barber's Point. This was Taylor's 2nd kill of the day.


It's the same as one of the Hobby Master Vals